FlyBe - 6
Join Date: Mar 2012
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cornishsimon
It will not effect the NQY - LGW route. That route is operated from NQY with a based aircraft down there.
However if you want to see EZY on the NQY - LGW route than BE will have to leave. There is not enough room on this route for both. Be careful what you wish for here. I suspect EZY would only offer 1 flight a day and in the middle of the day with spare capacity. NQY would then really strugle as an airport with 1 EZY flight a day instaed of the 3 a day by BE.
NQY airport would really shoot them self in the foot if they let that happen!
It will not effect the NQY - LGW route. That route is operated from NQY with a based aircraft down there.
However if you want to see EZY on the NQY - LGW route than BE will have to leave. There is not enough room on this route for both. Be careful what you wish for here. I suspect EZY would only offer 1 flight a day and in the middle of the day with spare capacity. NQY would then really strugle as an airport with 1 EZY flight a day instaed of the 3 a day by BE.
NQY airport would really shoot them self in the foot if they let that happen!
Last edited by Set 1013; 14th Aug 2012 at 15:41.
Big shame for the Lgw crews.
Many live local or were already moved on from the norwich base closure!!
Just shows what little Flybe thinks of its employees!
Many live local or were already moved on from the norwich base closure!!
Just shows what little Flybe thinks of its employees!
Last edited by Serenity; 14th Aug 2012 at 15:57.
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Sorry for the crews...again!
As a former BE bod, it comes as no surprise whats happening at LGW. As previously commented its such a shame that they have little or no respect for their hard working crews who work so hard to keep BE moving. To you guys, good luck and hope something good comes your way.
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Serenity, do you really think Flybe should maintain the single aircraft base just for the sake of the crews who are based there? As unfortunate and disappointing as it is that those jobs are now at risk, Flybe is a business. It is in no-ones interest to operate a base at a loss in the long term.
As for routes at LGW, Flybe have stated that no routes will be lost. There will be a slight decrease in flights to JER and the NTE will transfer to SOU (not sure whether they mean it will operate as a W pattern from SOU or whether LGW-NTE will become SOU-NTE. All other routes from LGW are operated by aircraft and crews based elsewhere.
As for routes at LGW, Flybe have stated that no routes will be lost. There will be a slight decrease in flights to JER and the NTE will transfer to SOU (not sure whether they mean it will operate as a W pattern from SOU or whether LGW-NTE will become SOU-NTE. All other routes from LGW are operated by aircraft and crews based elsewhere.
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LGW is targetting larger airlines and larger aircraft - regional domestics do not form part of their priority despite the numbers that use it as a hub for onward connections. Flybe only had one based Q400 there, and with the increases in charges and potential to make revenue elsewhere the decision to close it as a base comes as no surprise at all. By relocating the aircraft, probably to EMA or to replace one off to SN, it means higher revenue can be generated.
It is dissapointing for the crew, some of which moved over from NWI. However JC25 is right - it is not realistic to expect an airline to keep a base open which is not making sufficient money for the sake of 30 staff. As hard as it is to hear, if they were to keep the base in operation it would only be a matter of time when the airline finds itself dealing with a much bigger issue possibly affecting many more staff, crew or elsewhere.
Goes without saying though that I wish the crew all the best in whatever they decide to do
It is dissapointing for the crew, some of which moved over from NWI. However JC25 is right - it is not realistic to expect an airline to keep a base open which is not making sufficient money for the sake of 30 staff. As hard as it is to hear, if they were to keep the base in operation it would only be a matter of time when the airline finds itself dealing with a much bigger issue possibly affecting many more staff, crew or elsewhere.
Goes without saying though that I wish the crew all the best in whatever they decide to do
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SOU-NTE is in the booking engine but shows as full when you try and book, offering an alternative via MAN. I'm guessing it will be up soon and also what's the frequency? I'm assume its on a Q400.
Last edited by adfly; 14th Aug 2012 at 19:35.
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Thanks all.
Just for info NQY doesnt have a based aircraft, its a night stopping aircraft and as such there is no BE base at NQY.
As for NQY-LON traffic, numbers on the route are significantly down this year since the demise of SZ, there is room on the route for another operator, or for BE to add an extra rotation ?
remember that for ages we had a 2 daily FR 738, 1 daily BA 734/5/A319, 4 daily SZ and the 3 daily BE.
Plenty of room for more me thinks
But perhaps someone like EZY or RE might look at SEN-NQY ?
cs
Just for info NQY doesnt have a based aircraft, its a night stopping aircraft and as such there is no BE base at NQY.
As for NQY-LON traffic, numbers on the route are significantly down this year since the demise of SZ, there is room on the route for another operator, or for BE to add an extra rotation ?
remember that for ages we had a 2 daily FR 738, 1 daily BA 734/5/A319, 4 daily SZ and the 3 daily BE.
Plenty of room for more me thinks
But perhaps someone like EZY or RE might look at SEN-NQY ?
cs
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I was just wondering where the announcement concerning the Flybe Gatwick base can be read. I looked online and at the Flybe Investors section of their website and found nothing. I appreciate that such information may at the moment posted internally within the company and dont wish to intrude where I shouldn't be!!
Just a comment on Flybe's route development. I have followed their development for a number of years out of interest and I have respected their cautious approach to trying new markets, after all they are still here! However, even careful me, is beginning to wonder if they should be a little more adventurous. It has been said that their regional sun routes are performing well yet they seem reluctant to expand them. I was quite surprised when they didn't expand more at Cardiff with the demise of BMI Baby. Likewise maybe they should have tested out Durham, Doncaster or Humberside a little more. I admit I am no expert but maybe these sort of routes may counter balance just a little the Uk Domestic decline. Likewise there are some niche places in Europe that Gatwick services may support.
As always comments and opinions most welcome.
V.
Just a comment on Flybe's route development. I have followed their development for a number of years out of interest and I have respected their cautious approach to trying new markets, after all they are still here! However, even careful me, is beginning to wonder if they should be a little more adventurous. It has been said that their regional sun routes are performing well yet they seem reluctant to expand them. I was quite surprised when they didn't expand more at Cardiff with the demise of BMI Baby. Likewise maybe they should have tested out Durham, Doncaster or Humberside a little more. I admit I am no expert but maybe these sort of routes may counter balance just a little the Uk Domestic decline. Likewise there are some niche places in Europe that Gatwick services may support.
As always comments and opinions most welcome.
V.
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Vman, it's a nice idea. However, the last I heard was that the yields for sun routes, specifically Southampton, were poor despite high load factors.
I guess that may temper Flybe's keenness to expand that part of their operation.
I guess that may temper Flybe's keenness to expand that part of their operation.
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vectisman
Valid comments re the sun routes. However, given the seasonality of such routes they are reluctant to commit too many aircraft to them as it would have a knock on effect to the shorter routes or domestic flying programme. Also should they commit to the sun routes in a greater fashion what do they do with the same aircraft come the winter season?
There may be an implication for anciliary revenue, lets suppose that a 195 can carry 110 passengers to say Alicante twice per day, the same machine could do twice as many rotations on shorter routes, hence potentially twice as many passengers flying hence potentially twice as many hotels, car hires and other services needed, this may be also part of the rationale.
The challenge for Flybe in my view, in these markets is their cost base. They are not a low cost airline, yet most of these flights these days are operated by low cost operators. BA have even described these operations as more suited to low cost airlines. The clue may be there.
Flybe can work such operations from SOU and EXT where they are a very well recognised brand where no competition on the same routes directly exists.
Regarding LGW base I cannot think that they will publish much in the way of newsflash on this as it may be misinterpreted that Flybe are going to stop flying to LGW, which is clearly not the case.
EI-BUD
Valid comments re the sun routes. However, given the seasonality of such routes they are reluctant to commit too many aircraft to them as it would have a knock on effect to the shorter routes or domestic flying programme. Also should they commit to the sun routes in a greater fashion what do they do with the same aircraft come the winter season?
There may be an implication for anciliary revenue, lets suppose that a 195 can carry 110 passengers to say Alicante twice per day, the same machine could do twice as many rotations on shorter routes, hence potentially twice as many passengers flying hence potentially twice as many hotels, car hires and other services needed, this may be also part of the rationale.
The challenge for Flybe in my view, in these markets is their cost base. They are not a low cost airline, yet most of these flights these days are operated by low cost operators. BA have even described these operations as more suited to low cost airlines. The clue may be there.
Flybe can work such operations from SOU and EXT where they are a very well recognised brand where no competition on the same routes directly exists.
Regarding LGW base I cannot think that they will publish much in the way of newsflash on this as it may be misinterpreted that Flybe are going to stop flying to LGW, which is clearly not the case.
EI-BUD
Last edited by EI-BUD; 15th Aug 2012 at 12:12.
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Many thanks for your replies.
I appreciate the comment re how aircraft could fly several short rotations for every longer sun route one. However from my experience holiday makers are more likely to spend on the plane buying refreshments and duty free. They also need accommodation and car hires. Rarely do I see people on the Newcastle, Manchester trips even buy a cup of tea! However, having said that, I expect businessmen hire cars, need hotels and will pay the higher fares for flexibilty. At times though the flexi fares seem way too high though.
On the question of fares I agree Flybe cannot be considered truly low cost. On occasion it has been a fraction cheaper for me to take the Car Ferry (live on Isle of Wight) drive to Heathrow/ Gatwick park the car and fly BA to Manchester or Newcastle. Even cheaper if I leave the car and travel as a foot passenger on boat and take the train to the airport. I dont have to pay extra for my case and enjoy the complimentary tea and snack. Having said that I enjoy my flights on both carriers.
At times I must admit the sun route fares look very good value when compared to the domestic ones.
Now for my 'armchair expert' bit!! Feel free to tear apart!! I would make the bases where I am competing against some some of the majors all jet asap. I have nothing against the Dash 8. I have flown on them many times. But, however new and economical they may be the public perception of them is not always positive.
I wonder if some of the Frankurt routes would have done better if entirely operated by jets up against Lufthansa and their full service cabin product. I expect as more E175s come online this will happen anyway. I hear passenger response to them is favourable. Flying into Gatwick from the Caribbean on a BA 777 and travelling on to say Newcastle on a E175 rather than a Dash 8 for example, I think the perceptions of passengers would be more positive.
However I do realise that the Dash 8 may be the reason why certain routes work from regional airports but surely London Gatwick could support 88 seater/118 seater jets. I know Gatwick appear to ne favouring larger aircraft but they also know that without a reasonable amount of connecting traffic their plans for the future in terms of passenger numbers may not be realised. It's also about frequency and timings. Cut frequency too much and passengers look elsewhere for greater flexibility. I used to have a choice of 4 deps a day to Newcastle from Southampton on most days. Some days now this is down to 1. I know demand has fallen but when you get to a certain point demand can follow capacity downwards.
I would also be tempted to look at the inflight service. Offering say a free beverage and a small packet of nibbles again could raise perceptions. Also continue to offer other catering at reasonable prices.
Oh well guess I will have yo just win the next major Euro millions prize, buy the airline and try these ideas out!!
Seriously though, I hope Flybe fly onto btter times. They have done some good work. I can remember 15 years ago Southampton had daily services to handful of destinations such as Newcastle, Paris and Amsterdam!! Seeing a plane land once an hour was exciting .
One final question. Have Flybe considered routes from Uk to connect with the services of Flybe Nordic? Does their partnership with Finnair prevent this? No chance og LGW/MAN/BIRM to Helsinki for example?
Many thanks for reading my ramblings! As always comments and views appreciated.
V.
I appreciate the comment re how aircraft could fly several short rotations for every longer sun route one. However from my experience holiday makers are more likely to spend on the plane buying refreshments and duty free. They also need accommodation and car hires. Rarely do I see people on the Newcastle, Manchester trips even buy a cup of tea! However, having said that, I expect businessmen hire cars, need hotels and will pay the higher fares for flexibilty. At times though the flexi fares seem way too high though.
On the question of fares I agree Flybe cannot be considered truly low cost. On occasion it has been a fraction cheaper for me to take the Car Ferry (live on Isle of Wight) drive to Heathrow/ Gatwick park the car and fly BA to Manchester or Newcastle. Even cheaper if I leave the car and travel as a foot passenger on boat and take the train to the airport. I dont have to pay extra for my case and enjoy the complimentary tea and snack. Having said that I enjoy my flights on both carriers.
At times I must admit the sun route fares look very good value when compared to the domestic ones.
Now for my 'armchair expert' bit!! Feel free to tear apart!! I would make the bases where I am competing against some some of the majors all jet asap. I have nothing against the Dash 8. I have flown on them many times. But, however new and economical they may be the public perception of them is not always positive.
I wonder if some of the Frankurt routes would have done better if entirely operated by jets up against Lufthansa and their full service cabin product. I expect as more E175s come online this will happen anyway. I hear passenger response to them is favourable. Flying into Gatwick from the Caribbean on a BA 777 and travelling on to say Newcastle on a E175 rather than a Dash 8 for example, I think the perceptions of passengers would be more positive.
However I do realise that the Dash 8 may be the reason why certain routes work from regional airports but surely London Gatwick could support 88 seater/118 seater jets. I know Gatwick appear to ne favouring larger aircraft but they also know that without a reasonable amount of connecting traffic their plans for the future in terms of passenger numbers may not be realised. It's also about frequency and timings. Cut frequency too much and passengers look elsewhere for greater flexibility. I used to have a choice of 4 deps a day to Newcastle from Southampton on most days. Some days now this is down to 1. I know demand has fallen but when you get to a certain point demand can follow capacity downwards.
I would also be tempted to look at the inflight service. Offering say a free beverage and a small packet of nibbles again could raise perceptions. Also continue to offer other catering at reasonable prices.
Oh well guess I will have yo just win the next major Euro millions prize, buy the airline and try these ideas out!!
Seriously though, I hope Flybe fly onto btter times. They have done some good work. I can remember 15 years ago Southampton had daily services to handful of destinations such as Newcastle, Paris and Amsterdam!! Seeing a plane land once an hour was exciting .
One final question. Have Flybe considered routes from Uk to connect with the services of Flybe Nordic? Does their partnership with Finnair prevent this? No chance og LGW/MAN/BIRM to Helsinki for example?
Many thanks for reading my ramblings! As always comments and views appreciated.
V.
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Also been thinking about what happens to the sun route aircraft during the winter months. Well some sun routes do continue especially with more people owning places abroad. Malaga ad Faro I think do go year round. Also continue to do what they do now devote capacity to winter sports destinations and increase amount of ski charter work at weekends. In recent years charter flying has increased as more jets have been available. Also I imagine more heavy maintenance is done then. Also the jets are kept busy year round on may domestic and city Europe flights.
Out of interest could the E190 OR E175 do Southampton/Exeter to any of the Canary islands?
V.
Out of interest could the E190 OR E175 do Southampton/Exeter to any of the Canary islands?
V.
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The E195 would probably just about make it from EXT (The route is right at the top of its 1800nmi range) but not from SOU, where they are good for around 1100nmi before being restricted (FAO/DBV sort of range). However I doubt it'd be viable against TOM on a larger and rangier 738.
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Maybe its me but jetstreamrecords you always seem to have an anti Flybe agenda in the tone of your posts. If I am being unfair I do apologise. I just get the feeling that when things are tough for them you are not completely sympathetic. Of course you may have valid reasons. Maybe you need to share them with others on here so we can see where you are coming from. Myself I neither hate or love any airline I just try to comment as objectively as possible.
V.
V.