Openskies

[FlyingTom]

RoyHudd.

That's interesting. I didn't know OS had subcontractors working for them. If so it would certainly support this thread direction re sacrificial airline.

[Helmut F.]

Ready for this:
Different AOC allows new traffic rights and enables ....

[Slow Progress]

I wouldn't say I was an overpaid subcontractor!!

[riaclarke]

French employees....Open Skies strategy...

Hmm....the issue of strategy and French AOC is an interesting one ...

Why would BA want to push Open Skies in the UK ? They would cannibalise their customer base, disrupt their own revenue management and generally cock things up for themselves.

Surely BA are chasing AF/KL premium passengers ? Not existing BA passengers and probably not EOS, MaxJet and SilverJet passengers...
...they could (maybe) force AF to lower some prices to compete and therefore be less inclined to try and do battle from LHR for these passengers...

Locating in France may make some sense therefore ....

BTW AF operates a profitable airline with crew in France...why couldn't Open Skies ? ...

Maybe Mr Knucklehead and his people aren't so daft after all....

Just imagine what LH / BD and VS combination could do to their thinking and position particularly at LHR.

Maybe starting up in France could be a peace offer to AF in a new World, rather than a way of getting the AA / BA deal done...especially in this weird economic climate.

Just another perspective ....

[thegypsy]

shortfinalfred

Scary isn't it when one agrees with 411A

[Tandemrotor]

I wouldn't say I was an overpaid subcontractor!!

Flying a 757 across the Atlantic with pax numbers that barely reach double digits: What would you call yourself?

[Roobarb]

Anyone care to nominate a pub for the piss-up when Dale Moss has to eat a turd with a spoon?

Watching that man and his whore of an outfit fail miserably will warm the cockles of the heart.


I’ll take on the opposition anyday. It’s my management I can’t beat!

[Poof in Boots]

Better start warming that turd up Roobarb,

BA.Com have listed loads of cancellations for the OS AMS/JFK route in November and December. Perhaps reality is setting in.

At the moment BA are loading Club Menus on longhaul routes 50% to save money, yet there is £millions available for OS to squander. Where are the shareholders? It is about time they had another chat with Willie.

[Regulation 6]

I never complain about other people being overpaid; whether it's J Ross, BA Pilots on APS pensions after milking the system for humungus amounts over the years, or indeed OS pilots or subcontractors. Whatever they negotiate - good luck to them all!

Never wish bad joss on employees of other companies, however much you may object to the culture of a particular outfit. They are just earning a crust like you are.

One of the things I have learned over the years in aviation is that, as EKG would have it, we are all hostages of fortune; there is very much a limit on how much of our luck we make ourselves - most of it is entirely out of our control.

So good luck to all, including BA and OS - I was bloody devastated when Sterling went down this week.

(Yes - I have been to the pub.)
Cheers

[RoyHudd]

Thanks for the helpful tips, 6.

You are soooo right, Reg 6. Everyone is entitled to earn whatever they can grab, right? .....Just like some of our colleagues in the financial institutions, whose monumental greed is now bringing down airlines, among others.

The reality of overpaid subbies in OS is something you cannot understand unless you know the inside track, which I happen to in this case.

[Skipness One Echo]

The problem with Open Skies is that they are being paid to a job that ought to be done in house with BA staff and aircraft though I see what you are saying.

[hunterboy]

I wonder about the knock on effects of the change in AOC. Will OS staff be entitled to a job in BA mainline under French labour laws when it all turns to worms? I suspect not. No doubt they will get a few months redundancy....(I gather around a months pay per yr served) then told to go away.
In a way it would be ironic if the OS pilots get left in the cold as BALPA predicted. Perhaps they should have supported joining the mainline seniority list? Or perhaps I am mistaken and have read the situation incorrectly. I certainly wouldn't trust any of the people running OS.

[bermudatriangle]

the whole open skies project seemed doomed from it's conception.757 is not the aircraft of choice across the atlantic,twin aisled aircraft are much better suited.low capacity configuration,over capacity to new york in the existing market,point to point traffic only with no connections at either end.add on fuel price fluctuations and the economic meltdown we are now in and you do not have to be a genious to realise this operation will not be profitable.how much money can be poured down the drain before the plug gets pulled ?

[HZ123]

Here at Waterside we are proud at the amount of money we continually waste on whatever project is flavour of the month. You may have noticed that we are starting to tire with OS and CX and have to focus on the income that is greatly reduced at LHR. I think our next course of action will be to outsource ramp and terminal staff at LGW, it worked OK at MAN. This may well be announced just prior to the Xmas break for completion by the end of Summer 2009 or before if things get worse. Thats is exactly how things are looking - worse.

[Skipness One Echo]

You can't compare ~30 based aircraft at LGW with handling the London Shuttles at MAN. Outsourcing LGW would light the blue touch paper as having done so on that scale, there is no reason that the same couldn't be done at Heathrow.

[bermudatriangle]

if things at gatwick are looking as bad as HZ predicts,why not pull out altogether and concentrate on LHR operations.saving money on the ground handling will not make an unprofitable base profitable.either it makes money or it looses money,the long term plans for gatwick have never been defined and many of the routes are bucket and spade,competing with the locost operators around europe and carrying cheap,inclusive package tourists to the caribbean,generating very little revenue.gatwick as an airport is fabulous to travel through as a passenger,but i fear the route structure will never enable it to reach it's true potential.hard fact to swallow,but heathrow is the money generating hub for BA and with the success of T5 now apparent for all to see,i believe the future for BA operations at gatwick is very unsure.i hope i am wrong.

[biddedout]

Have any of the Golden Parachute managers run back to mother yet? If BAcon is anything to go by, that is the first indication that the shutters are coming down.

[Railgun]

Big problem for them now is the lack of movement/transfers within the airline for the foreseeable future.

[Skipness One Echo]

carrying cheap,inclusive package tourists to the caribbean

I think LGW long haul is pretty good, newish B777s and high prices to the Carribbean, not cheap cruises as the chap above said. We'll see how well the re-introduced JFK does over the summer, poor timing on that one methinks. I disagree actually, outsourcing ground handling might save a Hell of a lot of money and cut a lot of the dead wood.
I have never found BA's ground staff any use whatsoever. Air crew are great but let down by frumpy, grumpy and surly timeservers in the Terminal.

[Human Factor]

I have never found BA's ground staff any use whatsoever. Air crew are great but let down by frumpy, grumpy and surly timeservers in the Terminal.

Chances are you would get exactly the same people now working for Aviance or Groundstar and they would be even more surly towards BA.