LEEDS 5

[chaps2011]

More interesting will be the Air Blue effect now an A340 from A319

Chaps

[slatgrille]

LBA-LHR Shuttle Flight Plan

Can anyone shed any light on the sometimes spectacular climb out on the A319 LBA-LHR Flight Plan - climb rates sometimes in excess of 5,000 fpm and FL180 cruise by around Pole Hill - light loads or standard procedures ?

[CabinCrewe]

I think we all now know the answer to that...

[Facelookbovvered]

Slatgrille

5T of fuel 5T of pax = home sick angel

Remain to be convinced by the viability of this route for BA, other than West bound long haul AMS is a better option than LHR add the Leeds weather factor, getting piss wet through in the car park (no multi story or walk to terminal dry route) point to point Leeds to London the train is less strain and you don't have to take your wet shoes off or get undressed, time will tell, brave move by BA or slot sitter?

[FRatSTN]

I must say that Leeds Bradford is one of the worst airports for consistancy of flights throughout the day. Have a look here at what the departures board would show (as the airlines schedules currently stand at the moment) for Mondays in summer 2013:

KL1540 06:20 Amsterdam
BM1611 06:30 Brussels-International
FR153 06:30 Dublin
LS257 06:30 Palma de Mallorca
FR1584 06:35 Fuerteventura
FR2494 06:40 Milan-Bergamo
LS197 06:45 Ibiza
LS185 07:00 Malaga
LS201 07:00 Amsterdam
LS389 07:15 Madeira
ZB7584 07:15 Minorca
LS271 07:20 Alicante
LS343 07:30 Venice-Marco Polo
LS375 07:30 Minorca
ZB7572 07:30 Munich
T34502 07:55 Aberdeen
LS251 08:00 Faro
LS323 08:30 Belfast-International
LS331 08:30 Rome-Fiumicino
BE172 08:40 Southampton
LS231 08:45 Barcelona
BE730 08:50 Belfast-City
FR9079 09:05 Alicante
FR1503 09:30 Gdansk
KL1546 10:15 Amsterdam
LS241 10:30 Nice
TOM698 10:35 Dalaman
T34503 10:45 Bristol
BA1341 11:35 London-Heathrow
FR2472 12:10 Montpellier
ZB7592 13:20 Lanzarote
LS315 13:50 Paris-Charles de Gaulle
LS475 13:50 Dalaman
LS187 14:00 Malaga
ZB7554 14:05 Barcelona
LS207 14:25 Murcia
LS227 15:00 Palma de Mallorca
LS477 15:05 Gran Canaria
BA1343 15:50 London-Heathrow
LS265 16:00 Malaga
LS273 16:05 Alicante
LS215 16:20 Bodrum
BE732 16:35 Belfast-City
BM1615 16:35 Brussels-International
LS195 16:40 Prague
LS259 16:40 Corfu
FR2322 16:45 Murcia
T34506 16:45 Aberdeen
FR2503 16:50 Faro
BE174 17:00 Southampton
FR2446 17:00 Malaga
KL1550 17:15 Amsterdam
FR2332 17:35 Krakow
LS347 18:00 Dusseldorf
T34507 19:35 Bristol
FR157 19:40 Dublin
BE734 20:10 Belfast-City
ZB7536 20:30 Bodrum
BE176 20:45 Southampton
BA1345 21:00 London-Heathrow
TOM3168 22:10 Palma de Mallorca

There is a huge gap of virtually nothing in late morning/early afternoon and then again early/mid evening with it being very busy early morning and late afternoon. I know this could change between now and the summer but it won't change much so why is there so many flights at once? Is Leeds Bradford a large maintainance base and airlines do this so they can swap aircraft between turnarounds or is it just how it is? Jet2 in particular seems to have very busy periods and then hours with nothing.

[MUFC_fan]

Look at a lot of major airports with large number of based aircraft. MAN probably being the biggest example. LGW to a lessor extent.

The aircraft go out in waves between 05:30-9am or so, away for however long, back mid-afternoon for the second wave. Take a look at MAN T2 around mid-day and it's near empty.

[FRatSTN]

I'm aware that most airport have waves of traffic and see alot of early morning departures due to all the based aircraft going out but Leeds Bradford's waves seem particularly extreme.

[Bagso]

The slots BA are using at LBA are surely to ensure they don't lose them at LHR ?

I may be wrong but suspect the services will rum for the foreeable future but will disappear if BA need a new far east or South American flight..

One other point, not sure what the fascination is with LHR. If you travel to Manchester you can hop on Qatar, Etihad or Emirates all offering ONE stop to Far Ear / Australia, crucially your flight WILL operate and you wont get dumped at LHR if its foggy or snowing !

[Omnipresent]

I don't think the LHR-LBA route is slot-sitting alone. Pure slot-sitting is adding a frequency to an existing route (MAN, AMS etc), not launching a new route and procuring ground handling, investing in marketing etc.

No doubt incentives have played a part and the route will need to prove itself pretty quickly but the route was launched after BA had done a full due diligence on bmi and BA has obviously decided that there is customer base in Yorkshire worth pursuing.

December is not the best time to launch a new route and hopefully in the summer there'll be a clearer picture of its performance.

[North West]

One other point, not sure what the fascination is with LHR. If you travel to
Manchester you can hop on Qatar, Etihad or Emirates all offering ONE stop to Far Ear / Australia, crucially your flight WILL operate and you wont get dumped at LHR if its foggy or snowing !

Despite which there's 11 a flights a day ex-MAN and Virgin shortly to add another 3. No reason there shouldn't be plenty of demand ex-LBA considering lack of competition and the local catchment has always been pretty strong over there. 'LS' postcodes have always been a big money spinner for the long-stay car parks at MAN

[Gate 8]

I would put it at 60:40 slot sit:rte evaluation

As above BA would have taken the easy option if all they wanted to do was slot sit and run an odd extra EDI/MAN/GLA etc which is indeed what they were doing in the Summer.

They acquired BMI complete with its fleet of 319's and need to do something useful with them for the foreseeable. They investigated potential routes and came up with LBA & RTM. RTM is doing better than LBA load wise but LBA does have 4 a day to fill (too many from a standing start IMO) and furthermore they started both at a terrible time.

BA have invested a fair amount in setting up the Leeds operation, time will tell if enough people back it. I'm unconvinced at the moment.

Some flights have nudged 100 pax but plenty are flying around with 30/40 on them. Fair enough it's been Christmas week but the operation seems robust an the figs need to improve in the NY.

One stat for you.... Saturday's early southbound had 95 pax and 72 were connecting to (primarily) LH services.

I think 3 per day in the summer could run well an avoi the dead 7am northbound loss maker too.

[HOODED]

Interesting Stat sounds like a FRA route could work well When/If BA pull the slot sitter! Sounds like a job for Jet2.

[Scottie Dog]

HOODED

I think the reference to LH was long-haul and not Lufthansa - if I have read your posting correctly.

[SWBKCB]

One stat for you.... Saturday's early southbound had 95 pax and 72 were connecting to (primarily) LH services.

Would be interesting to know what the 72 would have done if the service didn't exist - not travel, ground (road/rail to LHR) or go via other airports (MAN, AMS, etc).

[HOODED]

Thanks Scottie Dog yep that makes more sense!

Regarding what those pax would have done if the service wasn't available is the key question really.

I suspect KLM would probably have done slightly better as JET2 have reduced their CDG operation and timings are not great for onward. The proportion travelling to LHR via the train I suspect is small.

BA are far from cheap from LBA to join their Long Haul although the convienience may sway a few, but I know a few who looked at their prices then decided to use KLM via AMS or EK from MAN.

I just hope they can make it work....Time will tell.

[2Planks]

Well I hope it lasts longer than the Monarch LBA-GNB Service - axed after a month leaving a lot of wintersports enthusiasts in the lurch. Hopefully Monarch will fulfil their obligations on other routes launched at a similar time.

[StoneyBridge Radar]

It all depends on how you define "a lot" in the sentence "leaving a lot of wintersports enthusiasts in the lurch."

Forward bookings were absolutely crap, and an airline can't run a route on today's margins ( as a result of those dirt cheap fares we all like ) just as a loss leading good will gesture.

If it don't pay, it don't stay. It really is that simple, and we are all responsible for it in our demand for ever cheaper fares.

Rgds

[2Planks]

Indeed it does - but a reputation is fragile. Monarch are still offering tickets on the same route for next season - am I going to risk it - no.

[chrismoose]

Jet2 to FRA/CDG (or anywhere else) aren't much use for onward connections, unless you want to take the risk of a missed connection, and can make the timings fit. Personally I wouldn't even consider it.

[LBIA]

Good news as British Airways have this morning confirmed that its moving the Leeds/Bradford service from London Heathrow Terminal 1 to Terminal 5 as from Sunday March 31st 2013.

Leeds Bradford Flights Move to Terminal 5