BMI
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East Midlands 2001
Just wondering if anyone can remember the type of aircraft BM had based at East Midlands for Summer 2001? I'd imagine there would've been some Fokkers but were there some 737s as well? Cheers...
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AboveMSA - Get real!
It should be remembered that the reason Astraeus' B757's have been brought in to do the Alamaty & Freetown flights is basically because the Bus' ain't got the legs of the 757. It's simply good commercial sense... and therein perhaps all them SFO's shouild've got a 757 rating and joined Astraeus?
It should be remembered that the reason Astraeus' B757's have been brought in to do the Alamaty & Freetown flights is basically because the Bus' ain't got the legs of the 757. It's simply good commercial sense... and therein perhaps all them SFO's shouild've got a 757 rating and joined Astraeus?
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sweetie76,
I don't think that's what he/she's saying at all. Surely you can understand that if bmi doesn't have the correct aircraft in the fleet to provide the extra capacity required, then, in the short term, there is no option but to lease in other aircraft.
I know this is an absolute pain in the @rse for those SFO's waiting for their command, but you can't seriously be suggesting that because these aircraft are not bmi's flown by bmi crew then the business should stagnate and potentially miss out on large growth on these routes until the correct aircraft can be aquired?
As Old King Cole says, as annoying as this is, it does make sound commercial sense, and this has absolutely no parrellels to the BA/Openskies issue.
I don't think that's what he/she's saying at all. Surely you can understand that if bmi doesn't have the correct aircraft in the fleet to provide the extra capacity required, then, in the short term, there is no option but to lease in other aircraft.
I know this is an absolute pain in the @rse for those SFO's waiting for their command, but you can't seriously be suggesting that because these aircraft are not bmi's flown by bmi crew then the business should stagnate and potentially miss out on large growth on these routes until the correct aircraft can be aquired?
As Old King Cole says, as annoying as this is, it does make sound commercial sense, and this has absolutely no parrellels to the BA/Openskies issue.
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Topslide6
It's purely that I understand there is some mechanism within bmi to prevent aircraft in bmi colours at LHR being flown by anyone but mainline pilots. I also understand the Emb has been operating against this agreement with impunity for several years.
Isn't it understandable for some FOs to view this continuing breach of said agreement as a further betrayal? Especially in view of the 2-year timescale.
Were the pilots consulted/informed about this 'sensible, commercial decision' and the possible ramifications before the decision was made?
(Before you ask, I don't work for bmi.)
Isn't it understandable for some FOs to view this continuing breach of said agreement as a further betrayal? Especially in view of the 2-year timescale.
Were the pilots consulted/informed about this 'sensible, commercial decision' and the possible ramifications before the decision was made?
(Before you ask, I don't work for bmi.)
Mach 3
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I have no idea when the alleged A330's that bmi has on order will arrive (the Astraeus lease would suggest 2 years time?), but lets say the delivery slips by a further year, that would be 3 years of bmi flightdeck work being done by contract pilots....
Lets say the airline then realise that operating an exclusive Airbus fleet for their evolving mid/long haul network is daft because it doesn't match the route/capacity profile and get some old Boeing 757/767's in from BA as they trade up to their 787's in 2010 (prior, of course, to bmi taking possession of their own 787's...or will it be A350's?).
That'd upset a few of you wouldn't it? Had the airline invested in "the business" some of you would have 2000+ P1 hrs by then on type....
Lets say the airline then realise that operating an exclusive Airbus fleet for their evolving mid/long haul network is daft because it doesn't match the route/capacity profile and get some old Boeing 757/767's in from BA as they trade up to their 787's in 2010 (prior, of course, to bmi taking possession of their own 787's...or will it be A350's?).
That'd upset a few of you wouldn't it? Had the airline invested in "the business" some of you would have 2000+ P1 hrs by then on type....
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I take your point, but irrespective of any agreement, if bmi can't get the appropriate airframes to operate themselves, they have to do something to bridge the gap. Are you saying by honouring an agreement, they should continue with the 321's and harm the business? I would expect the vast majority of bmi pilots, although understandably hacked off with the situation, would understand why it's come about. Personally, I find it laughable that the all singing and dancing Airbuses are not upto the job, and old 757's are being brought in to do the job properly!
I wholeheartedly agree that it is not a satisfactory situation for the SFO's, but no business could sit back and miss an opportunity like the one bmi have. I'd rather the 757's now, make money and invest it back into all three parts of the business for the future.
I wholeheartedly agree that it is not a satisfactory situation for the SFO's, but no business could sit back and miss an opportunity like the one bmi have. I'd rather the 757's now, make money and invest it back into all three parts of the business for the future.
Mach 3
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No, I'm saying perhaps they should dry lease the aircraft and type-rate some of their own pilots (20?)....on the basis that they'll probably have Boeings again in the fleet at some time in the future.
That is investment in the business.
What they are doing is investing in Astraeus business.
Just curious as to the issue with an investment driven option of that ilk?
That is investment in the business.
What they are doing is investing in Astraeus business.
Just curious as to the issue with an investment driven option of that ilk?
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I think it is worth looking at the memo posted in the bmi forum
It is premature to comment on the outcome of those consultations.
However - the destinations for the 757s are certainly not the most delightful.
HWB
For the pilots, there will be different requirements. The aircraft will be damp-leased from Astraeous and the initial plan is to operate with their flight deck crew members. There maybe opportunities for bmi pilots to convert temporarily to the B757, but in any event, all arrangements will be made after consultation with pilot representation and in accordance with applicable provisions in the AFS (Agreement for Service).[/
However - the destinations for the 757s are certainly not the most delightful.
HWB
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Rhys D
2001 - Saab 340s(bless them), Embraers (and possibly the 321 for First Choice?) aswell as the Fokkers. Still miss the breakfasts..................
Right,I'll get me coat............
Right,I'll get me coat............
North Stand
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bmi do already have several hundred Boeing rated pilots (at baby) and mainline may well end up baby sitting for baby this year whilst baby awaits replacement aircraft, which in turn will delay command up grades for baby SFO's and delay the movement of pilots from regional to baby and therefore delay command upgrades at regional and delay new starter from joining regional and so on
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INKJET,
It doesn't quite work like that. bmi as an organisation is not a ladder to climb with a regional F/O as the bottom rung!
baby pilots may well be Boeing rated, on the 737. That doesn't have a great deal of bearing on flying the 757 though, does it? It's still a completely new typerating.
SR71,
Fair point...but that is a massive 'If', and I refer you to my point above. I can hardly see us getting 757's into the fleet in the future, so typerating some guys and girls on it, on the basis that at some point in the future we might get some more Boeing manufactured aircraft makes no financial sense.
It doesn't quite work like that. bmi as an organisation is not a ladder to climb with a regional F/O as the bottom rung!
baby pilots may well be Boeing rated, on the 737. That doesn't have a great deal of bearing on flying the 757 though, does it? It's still a completely new typerating.
SR71,
No, I'm saying perhaps they should dry lease the aircraft and type-rate some of their own pilots (20?)....on the basis that they'll probably have Boeings again in the fleet at some time in the future.
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Topslide6
It might not work like that, but its meant to! ask any Regional guy who was interviewed and they were told it was indeed a ladder, In addition there is/was a set of written transfer agreement from regional into both mainline and baby and pilots have transfered from baby to mainline (and a few the other way) as well as a good number from regional to baby. Where it not for the Bmed purchase this issue would not have arisen and all in bmi (if not all in Bmed) must see that developement as positive for the groups future.
I do understand that some will see this delay their career developement, my point is that this will be deeper than just mainline, it will effect other units in the group With regards to aircraft ratings Boeing to Boeing is probably easier than airbus to boeing, but it won't happen and there is a lot more to flying into darkest Africa than just knowing you way around a Boeing derived flight deck, most at baby will be more than happy to go no further South than Faro or Malaga
I do understand that some will see this delay their career developement, my point is that this will be deeper than just mainline, it will effect other units in the group With regards to aircraft ratings Boeing to Boeing is probably easier than airbus to boeing, but it won't happen and there is a lot more to flying into darkest Africa than just knowing you way around a Boeing derived flight deck, most at baby will be more than happy to go no further South than Faro or Malaga
Last edited by INKJET; 16th Feb 2008 at 12:24.
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The confusion and frustration shown here is the single outcome from bmi having so many different business models, a/c, in-flight services, The list goes on and on. We have dedicated a/c with different configs on so many different routes, no one can keep up anymore. And we work here, God knows what a pax thinks when looking for a flight cos what they got on one route won't be the same on another.
This issue shows the need for bmi to step back and streamline the business so we all know where we stand. It needs to stop being a mouse and having a nibble at every piece of the market. We could start with having our a/c all in the same paint job!
6
This issue shows the need for bmi to step back and streamline the business so we all know where we stand. It needs to stop being a mouse and having a nibble at every piece of the market. We could start with having our a/c all in the same paint job!
6
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I quite agree Halfwayback, it is premature to comment on the outcome of future consultations, however, you mention the A.F.S., would the bmi SFO's be protected with passover pay in the event of Astraeus crews delaying their pomotions?
