Alitalia (Merged)
Navigante:
Once again: welcome to the real world!
Unfortunately AZ pilots are not in a position to bargain. Most national carriers have gone through privatization and found it to be a painful process. KLM, for example, went through a rigorous efficiency operation that cost many (I think it was 2000-2500) jobs when they were privatized. Their pilot hiring was effectively halted for a couple of years. They have emerged more profitable and AF took advantage of that by buying a healthy company.
Italy has to play this one by the EU rules, nationalizing Alitalia is not an option. In the immediate future you will have to accept the paycut and job losses, if things go well you can negotiate better terms and conditions at a later stage.
Unfortunately AZ pilots are not in a position to bargain. Most national carriers have gone through privatization and found it to be a painful process. KLM, for example, went through a rigorous efficiency operation that cost many (I think it was 2000-2500) jobs when they were privatized. Their pilot hiring was effectively halted for a couple of years. They have emerged more profitable and AF took advantage of that by buying a healthy company.
Italy has to play this one by the EU rules, nationalizing Alitalia is not an option. In the immediate future you will have to accept the paycut and job losses, if things go well you can negotiate better terms and conditions at a later stage.
Transport minister: "In a few days we will ground Alitalia´s planes as the law requires"
Italy in last bid to sell Alitalia, closure looms | Reuters
Italy in last bid to sell Alitalia, closure looms | Reuters
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Some banks are reacting very swiftly. An Israeli newspaper reported today that the bank accounts and property of Alitalia in Israel have been seized at the request of local airport authority due to a debt of half a million USD (350.000€).
This was adopted last Friday by a court in Tel Aviv.
Not only bank accounts are involved, but the confiscation includes also trucks and two engines held in storage in Israel.
This was adopted last Friday by a court in Tel Aviv.
Not only bank accounts are involved, but the confiscation includes also trucks and two engines held in storage in Israel.
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Remember this all AZ folks
If you were a member of the AZ failure Union staff, how the hell do you expect anyone else to employ you? You have shown your disloyalty to the Whole Company by your selfish attitudes, can you not understand that not only your Government, the whole of Europe has had enough of your prevaricating over the last 20 years. Please for all AZ employees, grow the hell up and protect at least some peoples jobs.
I hope when you next go to Mass and confess, you can do it with an honest heart!
I hope when you next go to Mass and confess, you can do it with an honest heart!
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There is something strange about this thread.
It is clear the vast majority of writers have great anger towards Alitalia because of the illegal funding. Also there is anger towards the unions for taking a risk which in our view was not wise.
Same time I feel for the few Italian pilots who tried here to show the human side of the story.
Me I am happy to see Alitalia go, because it was always based on nepotism and fiddles, but most importantly because as a company they never treated the paying punters as more than cattle, and for that reason they deserve to die, painfully.
At the same time I feel for the staff, even those who may not have tried anything to improve things, on a personal level.
I hope they learn their lesson and still manage to find a reasonable job at a reasonable rate, and will learn to appreciate what true quality service means and through that find pride and joy in their work
It is clear the vast majority of writers have great anger towards Alitalia because of the illegal funding. Also there is anger towards the unions for taking a risk which in our view was not wise.
Same time I feel for the few Italian pilots who tried here to show the human side of the story.
Me I am happy to see Alitalia go, because it was always based on nepotism and fiddles, but most importantly because as a company they never treated the paying punters as more than cattle, and for that reason they deserve to die, painfully.
At the same time I feel for the staff, even those who may not have tried anything to improve things, on a personal level.
I hope they learn their lesson and still manage to find a reasonable job at a reasonable rate, and will learn to appreciate what true quality service means and through that find pride and joy in their work
At the same time I feel for the staff, even those who may not have tried anything to improve things, on a personal level.
I posted way back Alitalia has an office with i don´t know how may people working and the only thing they do is THINKING OF NAMES FOR NEW A/C!
Wakeup and forget about the (italian!!) alitalia!
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The Management wil simply use the higher wages and better working environment of the old airlines, to justify lowering wages that they pay- "Well they couldnt afford it and they went bust," so how can we pay you any more?- in fact once they have all gone wages will be driven further down
KingCap
KingCap
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You cannot blame the Unions, as their sole purpose it to promote their members, and make life easier for them as well. Unions originally formed to protect their members and try to increase the conditions and stop the fat cats-- Alitalia is a bloated over-staffed blast from the past- so it will go. That said, they may be an element of the Italian Government drawing a line in the sand to send a warning to other inefficient industries. At least they are doing it for financial reasons rather than class warfare witch (sic)was the reason Maggie destroyed a perfectly profitable UK mining industry, producing some of the best quality coal in the world, to give the working people a good kicking and a reminder of who is actually in charge.
KingCap
KingCap
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KingCap!
Bullsh*t !
Unions are not there to stupidly try to only think of the (short term) benefit of her members! You are living in 1923!
Any union unable to put the daily situation or issuewithin the framework of the market the company operates in, to ensure the long term success of the company, as all company stakeholders should, does not blong in this century
Unions are not there to stupidly try to only think of the (short term) benefit of her members! You are living in 1923!
Any union unable to put the daily situation or issuewithin the framework of the market the company operates in, to ensure the long term success of the company, as all company stakeholders should, does not blong in this century
Eight Gun Fighter
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It's a pity the unions had to be involved in the reorganization of the company. They are not management or shareholders (to any great extent). While I think management is not particularly smart, it is their mandate to deal with business and structure and the unions to deal with employee concerns. If it was not Italy, they would not be involved until after re-structuring. Then they could negotiate new contracts or strike.
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You can blame the Unions KingCapt.
Alitalia has been in trouble for some time and whilst the Unions should be looking out for there members it must also be said that they also have to ask “what is in the best interest of the company has whole”. If there is no company then there are no jobs. Simple.
They have had a number of chances to agree a deal that will at least still get them bringing in some union dues but it appears to be an all or nothing venture on there behalf. If brinkmanship is what they wanted, then brinkmanship is unfortunately what they have got.
Me I see this all ending with some sort of compromise, however what will be gone is any goodwill the Airline had with its biggest and most important stakeholder, the flying public. I wonder how many flights in total have been cancelled over this.
edited for missing whole words out
Alitalia has been in trouble for some time and whilst the Unions should be looking out for there members it must also be said that they also have to ask “what is in the best interest of the company has whole”. If there is no company then there are no jobs. Simple.
They have had a number of chances to agree a deal that will at least still get them bringing in some union dues but it appears to be an all or nothing venture on there behalf. If brinkmanship is what they wanted, then brinkmanship is unfortunately what they have got.
Me I see this all ending with some sort of compromise, however what will be gone is any goodwill the Airline had with its biggest and most important stakeholder, the flying public. I wonder how many flights in total have been cancelled over this.
edited for missing whole words out
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Great Kingcap, so you speak some Dutch too...
I ll keep it in English for the others
No, the unions are not just another part of management. They represent the stakeholders called employees.
Point is, the time when unions could get away with a single minded look at any issue without looking beyong the (short term) gains for the members is long gone.
Within the social context of modern society their demands and negotiations should be taking into account the market the company operates in, the health of the company and the sustainability and consequences of the demands.
Anything less is no longer of this time. We are well past th capitalist extortionists and socialist workers.....
BTW I would expect nothing less also from management and shareholders. You ll see in my previous posts I am not an Alitalia pilot basher
I ll keep it in English for the others
No, the unions are not just another part of management. They represent the stakeholders called employees.
Point is, the time when unions could get away with a single minded look at any issue without looking beyong the (short term) gains for the members is long gone.
Within the social context of modern society their demands and negotiations should be taking into account the market the company operates in, the health of the company and the sustainability and consequences of the demands.
Anything less is no longer of this time. We are well past th capitalist extortionists and socialist workers.....
BTW I would expect nothing less also from management and shareholders. You ll see in my previous posts I am not an Alitalia pilot basher
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Italia = AZ = Unions = Mafioso
US = Airlines/Ground Handlers/Fuel Truck Drivers = Unions = Teamsters = Mafioso
Admit or give proof of no relationship. It was proved in both in Italian & US Courts of Justice, only in Italy they murder the Judges & Investigators.
I rest my case.
Unions should work for the benefit of ALL EMPLOYEES and PROTECT THEIR FUTURE.
The AZ Unions have not done this, can you not see this?, or do you want more Billions of Euros from the rest of the tax payers in Italy & Europe. Grow up!
US = Airlines/Ground Handlers/Fuel Truck Drivers = Unions = Teamsters = Mafioso
Admit or give proof of no relationship. It was proved in both in Italian & US Courts of Justice, only in Italy they murder the Judges & Investigators.
I rest my case.
Unions should work for the benefit of ALL EMPLOYEES and PROTECT THEIR FUTURE.
The AZ Unions have not done this, can you not see this?, or do you want more Billions of Euros from the rest of the tax payers in Italy & Europe. Grow up!
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This is become a little monotonous and beside some balanced views there is a lot of misinformation (understandably by foreign people).
For example, did you know Gobonastick that as part of the proposed Alitalia rescue, the very same Airone that you see in bed with LH, was to be merged as one company ? That is because they also carry more than 1B of debts and it was inteded as a favour to the current owner, with the condition that he stays out of future management.
And has anybody understood that the Gov. plan with the split between "bad company" and "good company" actually shifts all Alitalia debt to the state ?
And that the pilot "interfence with management plans" was merely the observation that the business plan could not really fly and too many numbers are just out of place to make it credible?
And that none of the "new owners" has any experience or real desire to invest in aviation and they only responded to a call from Mr Berlusconi where he promised to make the game easy for them to stay five years and sell with a huge profit ?
I'll just stop here.
For example, did you know Gobonastick that as part of the proposed Alitalia rescue, the very same Airone that you see in bed with LH, was to be merged as one company ? That is because they also carry more than 1B of debts and it was inteded as a favour to the current owner, with the condition that he stays out of future management.
And has anybody understood that the Gov. plan with the split between "bad company" and "good company" actually shifts all Alitalia debt to the state ?
And that the pilot "interfence with management plans" was merely the observation that the business plan could not really fly and too many numbers are just out of place to make it credible?
And that none of the "new owners" has any experience or real desire to invest in aviation and they only responded to a call from Mr Berlusconi where he promised to make the game easy for them to stay five years and sell with a huge profit ?
I'll just stop here.
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Hi Merlinxx, they only thing you should rest is your confused mind.
You make crass and trite accusations about the US and Italy ? Can you check about your own country first please ?
And the myth about Alitalia (undue) state subsidies coming from other EU members has been dispelled few pages ago in this thread.
So thanks for a content free post.
You make crass and trite accusations about the US and Italy ? Can you check about your own country first please ?
And the myth about Alitalia (undue) state subsidies coming from other EU members has been dispelled few pages ago in this thread.
So thanks for a content free post.