CARDIFF
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I don't think anyone is going to do anything that radical that quickly. If it was to work it would have to be a small aircraft daily i.e. Flybe, i would say Loganair but i wouldn't won't to be on one of the Saabs for too long lol. 2/3 weekly wouldnt generate enough intrest among businesses. This is the problems for Cardiff that big airlines i.e. WW could only operate it 2/3 weekly in order to fill the plane with the number of people that a daily prop flight would fill, if you get my drift, and this would not be sustainable. But flybe dont seem that intrested in Cardiff at the moment even though they want to be the biggest in the next 2 years. I think flybe could easily operate a german route i.e. Dussedorf, Hamburg and if the intrest grew maybe baby would consider other German routes. Cardiff is really lacking routes to the east of the UK i.e. Germany, Italy, Austria and Poland with smaller airport managing to have these routes among the sun, sea and spade routes i.e. Doncaster with Wizz to Poland, Exeter with BE to Croatia, Austria and parts of France that Cardiff would only dream off, and Inverness having a new German route. It seems cardiff is not an experimenting ground really. We need a big airline with ideas for Cardiff, unlike WW and TOM...especially TOM, to show these routes are successful and kick the other airlines into action. 
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Pipertommy, Patrick is no fool.
The nonsense in this thread about illusory market opportunities dreamt up by handlers, controllers, security people and schoolchildren has no basis in professional airport management nor airport marketing. PPrune is what it is. Online blather. Just a bit of fun. The problem is that real jobs and futures depend on CWL. If only the whingers here were only read by the other whingers - that would be okay. Unfortunately, PPrune is also read by the media and other decision-makers ... and they take this rot at face value.
Airports grow because of the economic activity around them. That's what attracts airlines. Prior to CWL, I was privileged to work for AMS and BNE. Mercifully, they were not handicapped in their development by a bunch of ill-informed, grumpy amateurs. The result was ... success.
If there is anything the readers of this thread can do to lift CWL out of the doldrums, it's to gear up your local MP and AM to fix the stuff the airport cannot fix by itself. Stop posting here and start posting on Wales Online, GlobalWales, BBC Wales, thisissouthwales and so on - make your support of CWL into a political issue. Because, right now, the politicians don't give a damn about the airport (they can't see votes in it) and that's the real problem.
The nonsense in this thread about illusory market opportunities dreamt up by handlers, controllers, security people and schoolchildren has no basis in professional airport management nor airport marketing. PPrune is what it is. Online blather. Just a bit of fun. The problem is that real jobs and futures depend on CWL. If only the whingers here were only read by the other whingers - that would be okay. Unfortunately, PPrune is also read by the media and other decision-makers ... and they take this rot at face value.
Airports grow because of the economic activity around them. That's what attracts airlines. Prior to CWL, I was privileged to work for AMS and BNE. Mercifully, they were not handicapped in their development by a bunch of ill-informed, grumpy amateurs. The result was ... success.
If there is anything the readers of this thread can do to lift CWL out of the doldrums, it's to gear up your local MP and AM to fix the stuff the airport cannot fix by itself. Stop posting here and start posting on Wales Online, GlobalWales, BBC Wales, thisissouthwales and so on - make your support of CWL into a political issue. Because, right now, the politicians don't give a damn about the airport (they can't see votes in it) and that's the real problem.
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I think Peter was referring to the people who post on the thread, inclusive of airport staff AND school children (younger aviation enthusiasts we could call them!)
I do think for some, this is the best place for some people to express an opinion to each other, because, and unfortunately, its those people who take the biggest interest in the running of the airport and aviation in Wales, and throughout the country for that matter, but the posters on here aren't the people in the thick of the business and feel they don't get heard.
However behind the scenes there is alot of work going on that people don't know about. At the end of the day, the airport is a business. On the front of it, things might appear to be slow and of a certain demise, but there's only so much the airport can do to change that. Its the airlines that provide the routes, base the aircraft, and get the passengers in.
CWL, and Wales itself isn't a strong enough contender to compare with some other UK airports. It does boil down to this re-occuring statement of "CWL just doesn't have the catchment"
I personally think Peter makes extremely valid comments with regard to the Welsh Assembly needing to provide the scope for passengers to come to Wales. Scheduled routes rely on traffic from both ends, whereas charter only relys on outbound traffic.
For example; what is the point of an airline operating to Germany, without the germans wanting to come to Wales?? If the business's are located in Wales then it provides much better demand for a route.
As for the drop in passengers in May, compare it to last year. Onur air were operating up to 4 flights a week to Turkey, now only 2 flights(1 being Onur, 1 being Saga) the loss of 1 TOM-757 and Monarch. Your talking 235 pax with a 757, twice a day, which is accountable for quite a number of pax!
I do think for some, this is the best place for some people to express an opinion to each other, because, and unfortunately, its those people who take the biggest interest in the running of the airport and aviation in Wales, and throughout the country for that matter, but the posters on here aren't the people in the thick of the business and feel they don't get heard.
However behind the scenes there is alot of work going on that people don't know about. At the end of the day, the airport is a business. On the front of it, things might appear to be slow and of a certain demise, but there's only so much the airport can do to change that. Its the airlines that provide the routes, base the aircraft, and get the passengers in.
CWL, and Wales itself isn't a strong enough contender to compare with some other UK airports. It does boil down to this re-occuring statement of "CWL just doesn't have the catchment"
I personally think Peter makes extremely valid comments with regard to the Welsh Assembly needing to provide the scope for passengers to come to Wales. Scheduled routes rely on traffic from both ends, whereas charter only relys on outbound traffic.
For example; what is the point of an airline operating to Germany, without the germans wanting to come to Wales?? If the business's are located in Wales then it provides much better demand for a route.
As for the drop in passengers in May, compare it to last year. Onur air were operating up to 4 flights a week to Turkey, now only 2 flights(1 being Onur, 1 being Saga) the loss of 1 TOM-757 and Monarch. Your talking 235 pax with a 757, twice a day, which is accountable for quite a number of pax!
Join Date: May 2004
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Yes its not directly PD`s fault that the airport is in melt down. If you cast your mind back when the Lo-Co airlines started out in the boom period and expansion was crazy, very little occured at CWL! A lesson that when things return to a stable platfrom- MARKET the airport!
I do understand real jobs are an issue here, 9 fire fighters have been made redundant from Cardiff airport fire service due to no expansion until 2011 in longhaul.
I do understand real jobs are an issue here, 9 fire fighters have been made redundant from Cardiff airport fire service due to no expansion until 2011 in longhaul.
Last edited by pipertommy; 17th Jun 2009 at 16:49.
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Sorry to hear that, Pipertommy. Sadly, it's a situation that's being repeated right around the world at present. One hopes that your colleagues are young enough and fit enough to find other roles soon.
Caaardiff, I guess my frustration with PPrune is that, in this context, it doesn't actually achieve anything positive ... although I am equally convinced that some of the "no blame reporting" that goes on here unofficially is hugely valuable. Venting irritation is all very well and can make you feel good for a little while ... but so does masturbation.
Now, if the community here could direct its efforts, that would be another matter altogether. Just a thought - I'm going to pop a pro-CWL website up. Easy enough to do. In deference to the admins, I won't put the URL here. PM me for it.
Caaardiff, I guess my frustration with PPrune is that, in this context, it doesn't actually achieve anything positive ... although I am equally convinced that some of the "no blame reporting" that goes on here unofficially is hugely valuable. Venting irritation is all very well and can make you feel good for a little while ... but so does masturbation.
Now, if the community here could direct its efforts, that would be another matter altogether. Just a thought - I'm going to pop a pro-CWL website up. Easy enough to do. In deference to the admins, I won't put the URL here. PM me for it.
Last edited by PeterP; 17th Jun 2009 at 19:15.
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I don't think there is anyone who posts on the CWL forums that is actually not pro-CWL (with the exception of the odd BRStaker!). Ok there are occasions where there is a certain lack of understanding of the way airlines work and the current economic climate, but, most people want a well equipped, well run, well served airport. A lot of what posters want from CWL just isn't achievable no matter how positively you think, at this time or any other for all of the reaons PeterP has already stated. It takes being an expat and having to work in the real world of aviation before you realise that. BUT there is a lot the airport, the WAG and the local population could do.
I don't ever remember CWL, or any of the local authorities or the assembly running a heavy "Fly From Cardiff" campaign in the local media. Although there are unlikely to be any new operators or routes from CWL in the near future (my FR joke was just that !) it doesn't mean there won't be in the future. The way to attract airlines and routes is to make sure the ones you have make money and are well subscribed. A concerted effort to prise people from the right side of the Severn Bridge back from BRS if that route is served from CWL is what is needed and it won't be easy !
You need to make the car parks cheaper, get a better rail service, get a more comfortable bus, tart the terminal up a bit (ok have to wait and see what happens with the conservatory), properly staff security to make the passage through the airport quick an easy and then publicise it, heavily and often. Make people look at CWL first, remind them how much it costs to drive to BRS, how awful their road is, how much the bridge costs, they haven't even got rail access, and get the services CWL has got running at a healthy profit for the airlines. THEN they will come with more. CWL will never get a comprehensive european flight network BUT it might just get enough to make it more than the gateway to Benidorm. The airlines can't afford to run this type of campaign and the airport can't, in my opinion, afford not to. QED.
I don't ever remember CWL, or any of the local authorities or the assembly running a heavy "Fly From Cardiff" campaign in the local media. Although there are unlikely to be any new operators or routes from CWL in the near future (my FR joke was just that !) it doesn't mean there won't be in the future. The way to attract airlines and routes is to make sure the ones you have make money and are well subscribed. A concerted effort to prise people from the right side of the Severn Bridge back from BRS if that route is served from CWL is what is needed and it won't be easy !
You need to make the car parks cheaper, get a better rail service, get a more comfortable bus, tart the terminal up a bit (ok have to wait and see what happens with the conservatory), properly staff security to make the passage through the airport quick an easy and then publicise it, heavily and often. Make people look at CWL first, remind them how much it costs to drive to BRS, how awful their road is, how much the bridge costs, they haven't even got rail access, and get the services CWL has got running at a healthy profit for the airlines. THEN they will come with more. CWL will never get a comprehensive european flight network BUT it might just get enough to make it more than the gateway to Benidorm. The airlines can't afford to run this type of campaign and the airport can't, in my opinion, afford not to. QED.
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I think we are in general agreement. The new site is now operational (but a bit empty!) So anyone wishing to take some affirmative action is welcome to PM me for the URL. Beware, however, that some of the ideas it already contains are rather controversial.
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Just came across this article on Walesonline this morning.
WalesOnline - Business - Business News - Cardiff Airport may be left behind in Bristol’s wake
WalesOnline - Business - Business News - Cardiff Airport may be left behind in Bristol’s wake
Join Date: Aug 2006
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You need to make the car parks cheaper, get a better rail service, get a more comfortable bus, tart the terminal up a bit (ok have to wait and see what happens with the conservatory), properly staff security to make the passage through the airport quick an easy and then publicise it, heavily and often. Make people look at CWL first, remind them how much it costs to drive to BRS, how awful their road is, how much the bridge costs, they haven't even got rail access, and get the services CWL has got running at a healthy profit for the airlines. THEN they will come with more. CWL will never get a comprehensive european flight network BUT it might just get enough to make it more than the gateway to Benidorm. The airlines can't afford to run this type of campaign and the airport can't, in my opinion, afford not to. QED.
is this not what we were telling the airport mis-management
some 10 yrs ago now....?!
some never learn, as I see it the only thing cwl management have ever done is sit on their backsides and assume the airlines will do it all for them...., while raising charges so far as to make start-up operations from cwl unprofitable unless one first obtains euro 1 funding..
(I know btw, that in their last year of operations at CWL charges to British Regional/Manx were increased by 300%)
ttfn
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Join Date: Feb 2005
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Tom 2010
TOM have released the 1st edition of the summer programme for CWL.
New weekly flights to:
MIR - Wed
AYT - Tue
They will also share a TCX MIR on a sun and have added a 2nd LCA flight with ECA.
New weekly flights to:
MIR - Wed
AYT - Tue
They will also share a TCX MIR on a sun and have added a 2nd LCA flight with ECA.
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cardiff, UK
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Was I halucinating, or did I see a Spitfire land at Cardiff yesterday?? Apart from this being quite unusual in itself, from where I was standing, it looked like it was heading for the X-wind runway (turned in sharp over Rhoose), which I thought was closed.
Daniel
Daniel
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Join Date: Apr 2009
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TCX S10
Just been checking out one of the Thomas Cook sites for next summer. Seems to be alot of changes with routes/days and times next year. MYT/TCX have always pretty much stuck to the same routes on certain days etc.
Also at the moment it looks like they are cutting a few routes. No FAO, LCA or MAH on sale but they have a few opportunites to squeeze maybe one of them in at least.
Looks like its gonna be another quite summer for CWL.
Also at the moment it looks like they are cutting a few routes. No FAO, LCA or MAH on sale but they have a few opportunites to squeeze maybe one of them in at least.
Looks like its gonna be another quite summer for CWL.