LEEDS - 4
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: 6 miles 14
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Thanks for that A300BOY. Do you think you would suffer the same problem that stops the 757s from doing a CAT3 at LBA? The downhill slope just after the displaced threshold seems to cause them problems which I can only assume will not just effect 757s. I only ask as I wonder what the Shaheen A310 could accept at LBA on LVPs which, lets face it isn't unusual at LBA.
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Leeds Yorkshire England
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A300boy
Cat 2 approaches are not always tied to autolands.the problem with the runway at Leeds is the autoland phase. Cat 3 approaches I believe always use autoland. It is possible to fly an approach to Cat 2 minima manually and land manually or an autopilot approach to Cat 2 minima with a manual landing or autoland. Our standard operating proceedures only allow us to fly an autopilot approach to Cat 2 minima followed by an autoland, if the autoland malfunctions we can land manually provided we have the visual clues required.
What I dont know is if the crew and aircraft ar Cat 3 capable like the Jet 2 757s but an autoland is not a good idea because of long flare or other problems can you elect to fly an approach to Cat 2 minima and land manually.
This never seems to happen even if the conditions are at or above Cat 2 minima. I have asked our 757 drivers as they are Cat 3B they reckon that would be possible.
Maybe someone from Jet 2 could comment if it is not commercially sensitive.
What I dont know is if the crew and aircraft ar Cat 3 capable like the Jet 2 757s but an autoland is not a good idea because of long flare or other problems can you elect to fly an approach to Cat 2 minima and land manually.
This never seems to happen even if the conditions are at or above Cat 2 minima. I have asked our 757 drivers as they are Cat 3B they reckon that would be possible.
Maybe someone from Jet 2 could comment if it is not commercially sensitive.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Brighton uk
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Just wondered if you could be a little more specific on flights to Banjul ? last time this flight operated was with the Gambia Experience for a season via Bournemouth with Astreaus 737 700 , the majority of passengers were picked up at Bournemouth thats why they stopped operating ?
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Norfolk but my Heart is still in Leeds
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LBAmail
I see rhe new airport owners have dropped the magazine.
I wouls have thought it would have been a winner with all the adverts inside.
Big T
I wouls have thought it would have been a winner with all the adverts inside.
Big T
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Do we really need the runway extension?
Dear all,
Given the price tag / inevitable environmental objection / lengthy planning application process / airport owners on a short-term revenue maximisation business plan = very very very unlikely an extension will happen.....
....may I ask does LBA actually need it? (I know the technical arguments on how it will improve TODA, CATIII flare problems on 32 etc etc).
If Shaheen is already flying non-stop to Islamabad then what is a £xxx m project going to buy LBA that it doesn't already have? (And other operators have successfully flown across the pond to North America in the past).
Further to that:
1) Is there any scope that improved technology can come to the rescue of landings on 14 without having to build concrete?
2) The advent of the 787 and A350 will extend the reach of LBA without any concrete.
Our Pakistani friends (of whom I was cynical and must admit I must eat humble pie and give credit where its due) have possibly shown us that we've imagined a long-haul problem on LBA (or listened too much to nay-sayers who thrive on blogsites) that doesn't really exist.
TDF
Given the price tag / inevitable environmental objection / lengthy planning application process / airport owners on a short-term revenue maximisation business plan = very very very unlikely an extension will happen.....
....may I ask does LBA actually need it? (I know the technical arguments on how it will improve TODA, CATIII flare problems on 32 etc etc).
If Shaheen is already flying non-stop to Islamabad then what is a £xxx m project going to buy LBA that it doesn't already have? (And other operators have successfully flown across the pond to North America in the past).
Further to that:
1) Is there any scope that improved technology can come to the rescue of landings on 14 without having to build concrete?
2) The advent of the 787 and A350 will extend the reach of LBA without any concrete.
Our Pakistani friends (of whom I was cynical and must admit I must eat humble pie and give credit where its due) have possibly shown us that we've imagined a long-haul problem on LBA (or listened too much to nay-sayers who thrive on blogsites) that doesn't really exist.
TDF
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Leeds Yorkshire England
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A300boy
Agree about the new aircraft types being able to go further from a shorter runway, but we only have to look at the long haul and freight flights that Doncaster has attracted to see that if the landing and take off distances at the Lba were increased we would soon see more of this kind of traffic ourselves and solve our cat 3 issues at the same time.
Join Date: Feb 2002
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Further to A300BOYs post , building concrete would not be neccessary to improve things though it would certainly help. The end of14/srtart of 32 has no overrun other than a steep grass downhill slope, level this and build a flat grass RESA and you solve the 14 landing problem. Not sure if this woukd count as an undershoot for the purpose of bringing the 32 threshold back to allow better LDA on 32 and better Cat3 performance though. Maybe someone could clarify this. It would be a lower cost solution to some of our problems if it could allow the displacement of the 32 threshold to be reduced.
Join Date: Feb 2002
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Not really, to build a parallel taxyway to the start of 32 would require landfill. If you are going to fill the area for a parallel taxyway you might as well fill the bit at the end of the runway and build a flat overrun/undershoot area at the same time!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire
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Hi
Following Hot on the heels after adding the 2nd weekly Dalaman flight at the weekend, Tour operator Goldtrail Holidays have just added a new 2nd weekly Tuesday Bodrum departure from LBA for the summer.
This now means Onur Air will be making 5 weekly visists to LBA in the summer.
Following Hot on the heels after adding the 2nd weekly Dalaman flight at the weekend, Tour operator Goldtrail Holidays have just added a new 2nd weekly Tuesday Bodrum departure from LBA for the summer.
This now means Onur Air will be making 5 weekly visists to LBA in the summer.
My wish list for LBA. Apologies if you've heard it all before:
Another 300 or so metres of runway at the southeast end;
Resurface the runway with asphalt. It's a right state at the moment;
Dig up and rebuild the apron around stand 6. It's falling to bits again;
Surface movement radar for days like today, provided the aircraft can land in the first place of course, which brings me on to...
Cat 2 ILS on RW14, if not Cat 3;
GMC in ATC between 0600 and 2200. Speaking as a humble tug driver it can be difficult to get a word in edgeways at times. Goodness knows what the pilots make of it;
Green lights/ cat's eyes/reflective studs on taxiway Alpha to aid us poor tug drivers in rotten weather and bad light;
Adequate centreline lighting at A2;
Parallel taxiways;
Build a new big terminal on the site of the long stay car park then demolish the old one and concrete over it;
Build a new multi storey car park on the land adjacent to the Travel Lodge;
And finally, find somewhere for a new control tower. Just don't build it too high otherwise it will be hidden in the clouds most of the time...
Phew !
Another 300 or so metres of runway at the southeast end;
Resurface the runway with asphalt. It's a right state at the moment;
Dig up and rebuild the apron around stand 6. It's falling to bits again;
Surface movement radar for days like today, provided the aircraft can land in the first place of course, which brings me on to...
Cat 2 ILS on RW14, if not Cat 3;
GMC in ATC between 0600 and 2200. Speaking as a humble tug driver it can be difficult to get a word in edgeways at times. Goodness knows what the pilots make of it;
Green lights/ cat's eyes/reflective studs on taxiway Alpha to aid us poor tug drivers in rotten weather and bad light;
Adequate centreline lighting at A2;
Parallel taxiways;
Build a new big terminal on the site of the long stay car park then demolish the old one and concrete over it;
Build a new multi storey car park on the land adjacent to the Travel Lodge;
And finally, find somewhere for a new control tower. Just don't build it too high otherwise it will be hidden in the clouds most of the time...
Phew !