British Airways - 2
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There has been talk of long haul expansion at LGW for a while with the routes above mentioned frequently.
I'm not sure to what extent the rumours are just feeding themselves, or perhaps announcements are imminent for the Summer 2012 season?
I'm not sure to what extent the rumours are just feeding themselves, or perhaps announcements are imminent for the Summer 2012 season?
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Qantas - New International Strategy
Under the restructured JSA, from early 2012 Qantas will fly Australia-Bangkok and Australia-Hong Kong, while British Airways will operate Bangkok-London and Hong Kong-London, maximising the airlines’ respective network strengths. British Airways will increase the frequency of London-Hong Kong services from 14 per week to 17 per week.
Qantas will no longer operate the Bangkok-London and Hong Kong-London sectors and British Airways will no longer operate the Bangkok-Sydney sector. However, customers will still be able to connect swiftly and efficiently through both cities.
Singapore will become the focal point of the JSA relationship, with daily Qantas A380 services from Melbourne and Sydney and onward to London, increased British Airways capacity and a new premium lounge.
Qantas will no longer operate the Bangkok-London and Hong Kong-London sectors and British Airways will no longer operate the Bangkok-Sydney sector. However, customers will still be able to connect swiftly and efficiently through both cities.
Singapore will become the focal point of the JSA relationship, with daily Qantas A380 services from Melbourne and Sydney and onward to London, increased British Airways capacity and a new premium lounge.
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So :
QF1 SYD-BKK-LHR B744
QF29 MEL-HKG-LHR B744
terminate?
Is this, in effect QANTAS cut their London operation in half leaving only
QF31 SYD-SIN-LHR A388
QF9 MEL-SIN-LHR A388
Also, in effect BA's Australia operation is cut by ~50% to a single LHR-SIN-SYD. I would imagine only politics and pride stopped the obvious BA to SIN only and QF to MEL and SYD only option.....
QF1 SYD-BKK-LHR B744
QF29 MEL-HKG-LHR B744
terminate?
Is this, in effect QANTAS cut their London operation in half leaving only
QF31 SYD-SIN-LHR A388
QF9 MEL-SIN-LHR A388
Also, in effect BA's Australia operation is cut by ~50% to a single LHR-SIN-SYD. I would imagine only politics and pride stopped the obvious BA to SIN only and QF to MEL and SYD only option.....
Last edited by Skipness One Echo; 16th Aug 2011 at 16:23.
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Given the following extracts from previous posts:
1. In relation to operations from the regions:
There isn't a market for them to run daily (which is what you need) from Manchester to Dubai or Singapore, as that would be just point to point for them. Quite different for those who are hubbed at those places, and can offer good high frequency. A small proportion get off there, the majority connect on to myriad other destinations.
2. Regarding the JSA with QF:
Under the restructured JSA, from early 2012 Qantas will fly Australia-Bangkok and Australia-Hong Kong, while British Airways will operate Bangkok-London and Hong Kong-London, maximising the airlines’ respective network strengths. British Airways will increase the frequency of London-Hong Kong services from 14 per week to 17 per week
I know I am opening myself up to ridicule from some, but given it is a stated fact 135,000 people fly annually from Manchester to Hong Kong ( I myself regularly being one of them) and the fact that the Middle East Carriers and SQ are mopping up a lot of Kangaroo route traffic from the regions. Is it not possible to put a business case for a Manchester to Hong Kong route which would carry both point to point traffic and connecting traffic to QF.
1. In relation to operations from the regions:
There isn't a market for them to run daily (which is what you need) from Manchester to Dubai or Singapore, as that would be just point to point for them. Quite different for those who are hubbed at those places, and can offer good high frequency. A small proportion get off there, the majority connect on to myriad other destinations.
2. Regarding the JSA with QF:
Under the restructured JSA, from early 2012 Qantas will fly Australia-Bangkok and Australia-Hong Kong, while British Airways will operate Bangkok-London and Hong Kong-London, maximising the airlines’ respective network strengths. British Airways will increase the frequency of London-Hong Kong services from 14 per week to 17 per week
I know I am opening myself up to ridicule from some, but given it is a stated fact 135,000 people fly annually from Manchester to Hong Kong ( I myself regularly being one of them) and the fact that the Middle East Carriers and SQ are mopping up a lot of Kangaroo route traffic from the regions. Is it not possible to put a business case for a Manchester to Hong Kong route which would carry both point to point traffic and connecting traffic to QF.
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No ridicule, you're right. I fly to aus maybe 8-10 times/year and over the last 24 months I've switched from MAN-LHR hopping on Qantas and getting to Sydney and quite often doing a SYD-MEL hop to suit my times which was a nightmare. Now I fly Qatar and they are amazing. MAN-DOH-MEL or DOH-SYD, fraction of the price and fraction of the hassle.
But there is clearly the need for more capacity and I would love to see a MAN-HKG rout but maybe there's not enough demand in that 135,000 pax to justify a route on the type of ac it needs to operate it, so for BA, ditching people MAN-LHR-HKG works more effective. Maybe BMI are missing something and this could be their long haul opportunities? I do have that BA is basically London Airways.
But there is clearly the need for more capacity and I would love to see a MAN-HKG rout but maybe there's not enough demand in that 135,000 pax to justify a route on the type of ac it needs to operate it, so for BA, ditching people MAN-LHR-HKG works more effective. Maybe BMI are missing something and this could be their long haul opportunities? I do have that BA is basically London Airways.
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Is it not possible to put a business case for a Manchester to Hong Kong route which would carry both point to point traffic and connecting traffic to QF.
You'd need to grab most of that current market to make a daily direct feasible, bearing in mind that the price for a daily direct would be more than a one stop with the gold plated Middle East carriers. Hence in the case of BA, I am not convinced the numbers would add up given how price sensitive the market is.
Also the current strategy for BA/QF has just taken HKG out of the equation in favour of hubbing through SIN.
As for BMI going up against Emirates, well that's not going to happen.
I do have that BA is basically London Airways.
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On the face of it yes, I mean BA used to fly B747s on the MAN-HKG route into the late 80s (I think?). 135,000 pa = ~370 per day currently split between BA / EK / EY / QR / BD & STAR. That's one B744 for the entire market split over multiple carriers.
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You could not do MAN-HKG-MAN in a single 24 rotation so you'd need more than one aircraft positioned at MAN to service the route. It's just not efficient to set up a small base at MAN when there is much more higher yielding traffic ex-LHR (about 120,000 pax fly between LHR and HKG a month).
BA has had to learn hard lessons in the past from growing its asset base ahead of revenue and the reality is it has a very lucrative premium market in London and is much better being focused on that market.
BA has had to learn hard lessons in the past from growing its asset base ahead of revenue and the reality is it has a very lucrative premium market in London and is much better being focused on that market.
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The 135,000 figure is the pax routing through LHR.
Tomorrow there are 14 MAN-LHR flights (counted off the Manchester Airport website) on A320 type a/c with an average load of 100ish gives us 1400 pax.
If 370 of these go to HKG, that's roughly 25%. Given that most of that 25% will fly BA MAN-LHR-HKG, I think they're definitely missing a trick there!!
I'm not saying your wrong, but unless my maths has gone a bit awry, I can't see how this would work!
they'd find a way to make it not work as per normal BA practices
Britain is a small country and unless people are willing to pay exorbitant fares to fly on smaller/emptyer planes to various destinations, its just not going to happen.
Last edited by jerboy; 17th Aug 2011 at 21:12.
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Skipness it was a Tristar and it routed via Munich when BA flew Manchester to Hong Kong.
Jerboy I dont agree with your numbers, the BA Shuttle varies between
A319/320/321 and in my experience as a regular traveller on the route its very rarely far off full.
However thanks all for the reasoned responses, I still think given the will there is the demand for some long haul services by BA probably connecting with One World hubs however I am also realistic enough to know it wont happen with BA (I am of course excluding AA to JFK/ORD, AY to HEL and IB to MAD).
Jerboy I dont agree with your numbers, the BA Shuttle varies between
A319/320/321 and in my experience as a regular traveller on the route its very rarely far off full.
However thanks all for the reasoned responses, I still think given the will there is the demand for some long haul services by BA probably connecting with One World hubs however I am also realistic enough to know it wont happen with BA (I am of course excluding AA to JFK/ORD, AY to HEL and IB to MAD).
Skipness it was a Tristar and it routed via Munich when BA flew Manchester to Hong Kong.
MAN-LHR-HKG was a 747. Terminated at MAN and routed through LHR (or was it LGW I forget)
The Tristar was used on the MAN-JFK. That swapped around a bit due to the 'merger' with BCal and changed several times from a 747 to a DC10 before the 767 arrived.
We had it on good authority from a senior BA manager a couple of years ago that there would be no return to regional longhaul ops until the 787 arrived.
Don't hold your breath.
For the sake of the historical record I can confirm that MAN-HKG was originally a TriStar 200 operation. The route was MAN-MUC-DXB-BKK-HKG, so perhaps no surprise that it was not a commercial success. Twice a week, IIRC, and in the mid-eighties but I would have to consult my logbook to come up wijh more accurate dates.
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The Tristar-200 operation was certainly flying in winter 85-6 on Tuesdays and Saturdays ex-UK as I flew on a Saturday MUC-DXB-HKG and then HKG-BKK on the following Wednesday.
Stand guidance at Terminal 5
A short while ago I resolved to start taking notes about how often, when arriving as pax at Terminal 5, we had to wait some time on the taxyway for the AGNIS stand guidance operator to turn up and switch this on so we can clear the taxyway and get onto stand.
You can imagine why I resolved to start taking these records ! I do not know a single airport, other than Heathrow, where this happens. You could understand an occasional disruption, but it seemed just too common.
So, here are the results. Out of my last five arrivals, we have incurred this delay, varying between two and ten minutes, three times. That is a 60% failure rate. What on earth is the issue ? What is the cost in aircrew time, engine hours, and fuel for this to be repeated (which presumably it is) right across the fleet ? Why can every other airport, and operator, manage to have the ground crew in place whenever I arrive with them ?
You can imagine why I resolved to start taking these records ! I do not know a single airport, other than Heathrow, where this happens. You could understand an occasional disruption, but it seemed just too common.
So, here are the results. Out of my last five arrivals, we have incurred this delay, varying between two and ten minutes, three times. That is a 60% failure rate. What on earth is the issue ? What is the cost in aircrew time, engine hours, and fuel for this to be repeated (which presumably it is) right across the fleet ? Why can every other airport, and operator, manage to have the ground crew in place whenever I arrive with them ?
This potential twist to BA`s future would be historical. Any views?
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If LH can swallow selling BD to IAG, then it is seismic in terms of BA's history.
The mood music at BA has definitely changed from cuts to investing in the brand and products/services. If this was coupled with the growth in the route network that 787s and bmi's slots would allow, then whilst BA will probably never regain the title of "the world's favourite airline" at least it will be out there fighting to compete rather than in retreat.
The mood music at BA has definitely changed from cuts to investing in the brand and products/services. If this was coupled with the growth in the route network that 787s and bmi's slots would allow, then whilst BA will probably never regain the title of "the world's favourite airline" at least it will be out there fighting to compete rather than in retreat.
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Thinking of mergers... Ryanair clears the way for BA to take over Aer Lingus - News, Frontpage - Herald.ie
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Moscow-Domodedovo
To Russia with Love « British Airways Press Office
That is one big capacity increase - swapping an A320 for a 747!
That is one big capacity increase - swapping an A320 for a 747!