British Airways - 2

[hamsco]

BA LHR to AMM

Hello

Does anyone what type of business class BA operate now on former BD route LHR AMM? States Club World on Ba.com but I am not sure if this route has the former BD aircraft or Club Europe style on it. I have searched and cannot find any answer.

Anyone know?

Thanks. HS

[Skipness One Echo]

It's a new "mid haul" product on the ex BMI A321 which has been getting rather good reviews elsewhere. I think it's sold as Club World but the seats are all forward facing.

[crewmeal]

It's classed as a long haul product with club world seating. The ex BMED/BMI 321's have been reconfigured to operate AMM, TLV, CAI, and other routes in the area. I understand they have the latest IFE system throughout. There are 2 types of config 23C/131Y and 31C/118Y.

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "Frank - all I'm suggesting is that BA give a guarantee on UK routes from an expanded LHR - if they don't or won't we'll know they just want to expand long haul

and that is a serious vote loser outside the London business community"

Actually think it's a good point, Harry. Would also like to see other UK carriers on domestic routes to/from an expanded LHR.

BA stated that the ex-BD slots will be split approx one-third long haul and two-thirds short haul. Would imagine that some of the short haul would be domestic.

[starbag]

It's the flat business class seat introduced by bmi as part of the Lufthansa upgrade of the Swiss / Brussels / Austrian business class last year. All seats face forward and go fully horizontally flat. Seats are in a 1-2 configuration, the following row is in a 2-1 config. Each seat has a large screen with a Thales AVOD IFE system. Here's a photo of the Swiss version

Photos: Airbus A340-313X Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net

[BALHR]

It's the flat business class seat introduced by bmi as part of the Lufthansa upgrade of the Swiss / Brussels / Austrian business class last year. All seats face forward and go fully horizontally flat. Seats are in a 1-2 configuration, the following row is in a 2-1 config. Each seat has a large screen with a Thales AVOD IFE system. Here's a photo of the Swiss version

Photos: Airbus A340-313X Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net

Does anyone think the "mid-haul" CW is better than the "current" CW?

Also should/does BA plan to to introduce it to more of its aircraft?

[TCX69]

Does anyone what type of business class BA operate now on former BD route LHR AMM?

Just with BA pillows & blankets now instead of the bmi ones.

[BALHR]

What would help the industry as a whole is the removal of APD (however we know that is not going to happen).

What would help people like myself is the removal of APD to allow more services from the regions, as I have mentioned before Manchester has lost potential flights to Dublin because of APD.

Your beloved BA has for it's own commercial reason abandoned direct flights from the regions, so forgive us for choosing to use foreign carriers that will.

As for your argument that we all fly on British carriers via London is better for the UK economy, that dismisses the fact that foreign carriers bringing foreign nationals into the regions is good for the economies of the regions of the U.K.

Whatever class you fly on BA I agree the service is not as good as other carriers, so BA should be looking at improving that service and that will encourage more people to use them.

For your benefit I speak from experience as someone who flew over 60 times last year including, for the benefit of travelling with colleague from the South a lot of flights via LHR.

You are right about the fact APD should go, then more people would be using flights, which in turn would lead to increases in corporation tax/airport fees/VAT etc from the aviation industry…

However I doubt if it would make little difference in how the “Regions” are served if APD is abolished, it just that there is not enough traffic (most of all high-yielding) to sustain a major hub and without a doubt the UK cannot sustain 2 major hubs (only Germany can in Europe…), it just that there is not enough traffic (most of all high-yielding) to sustain a major hub (outside London + SE) and without a doubt the UK cannot sustain 2 major hubs (only Germany can in Europe…)

Then there is the fact London and the South-East is the richest region and the biggest contributor to the economy…

BA has abandoned the Regions simply because it cannot make them sustainable with their cost base (they are not going to face hostility from their employees if try and reduce it, for the sake of serving the regions, its simply worth it) is too high to compete with LCCs, not only that but BA messed up in that sector before they began to emerge and even when they where relativity minor part of the aviation sector, had they have done so maybe they would have a focus city at MAN…

As for the reason why I feel the UK is better off the Regions flying to the British instead of Overseas hubs is that it keeps capital within the UK, if more people flyed to LHR rather than FRA/MUC/ZRH/BRU/VIN + CDG/ORY/AMS + DXB/AUH, the the UK will get more money from additional corporation tax/airport fees/VAT/Income tax etc, when you fly with a overseas airline, all we are getting is the airport fee, the rest goes back to their home country

I do agree on your point on that "foreign carriers bringing foreign nationals into the regions is good for the economies of the regions of the U.K" however...

I don't post very often but BALHR is making this thread unreadable. It's Saturday, go out for a few drinks with your mates.

I wrote those posts shortly before lunchtime in the afternoon…

However I look forward to my next visit now that the EK A380 concourse has just opened for a few flights and will get progressively busier in the next couple of months.This should ease the pressure on the existing facilities. And of course in the A380 concourse, J and F passengers can walk straight out of the lounge to the gate and into the upper deck of the aircraft on the level without getting in the way of Y passengers....

An infinitely preferable experience than BA

Without a doubt they provide a better service than BA and most European carriers, the problem they have however is that they have a 3-4-3 seating in Economy on their Boeing 777-200LR/300ER (they better get those Boeing 777X soon…)

I have to say Bussiness travel with Emirates is about 10 years ahead of BA in LHR for ROI pasengers and that is a shame and in my opinion BA will NEVER get back those eastbound high yield pasengers from ROI and maybe even NI Scotland and North England ....I never thought I would see that happen , ever.

The ultimate reason is that LHR has a lack of space to allow their route network to be extensive as AMS/CDG/ORY, FRA/MUC/DUS/BER/ZRH/GVA/VIE, DXB/AUH/DOH and the American hubs

Its not like BA has ignored the LHR-NI/ROL market, even if it meant doing a codeshare on EI LHR-BHD/DUB routes

I still think BA has a chance of regaing that high-yielding traffic (if they make the most of the fact Ireland is close to LHR by improving their service and implementing a major expansion of their route network)

I abolsutely accept the point that APD is damaging to UK aviation.

But i'd contend that maintaining that DUB has gained at MAN's expense is incorrent, though I can see how people arrive at that conclusion.

Airline PR often revolves around such nuggets as "due to UK APD, we have decided to grow at DUB/CDG/CPH/OSL instead". This PR suits the airline for obvious reasons, but it's incorrect for them to assert that these places are "in competition" with one another.

While operating costs of one airport versus another are important to an extent, it's the revenue environment that really attracts an airline. Do they wish to serve that particular market?

I've witnessed quite a bit of bad feeling towards DUB on these forums and on others, from MAN suporters in particular, on the basis that DUB is allegedly "stealing" business from MAN despite the fact they are in two different countries and dont compete for the same passengers.

Undoubtedly, the two cities comprise similarly sized markets, which share a lot in common, but they are just that - two distinct markets.

The real gainers out of the high APD (and lack of LHR expansion) are AMS/CDG/ORY, FRA/MUC/DUS/BER/ZRH/GVA/VIE, DXB/AUH/DOH and the American hubs, I doubt if DUB gets too much traffic out of the UK due to both factors (maybe some TATL traffic at most)

Also removing APD will make little difference to MAN, it just that there is not enough traffic (most of all high-yielding) to sustain a major hub and without a doubt the UK cannot sustain 2 major hubs (only Germany can in Europe…)

Then there is the fact London and the South-East is the richest region and the biggest contributor to the economy…

[BALHR]

Don’t want to repeat the point made by Skipness, but the extra longhaul interlining pax have to come from somewhere, and domestic connectivity adds to the longhaul-to-longhaul potential. With adequate slots available, as there would be with 3-4 rwys, they could do both.

This is the also the reason why AF-KLM-DL are doing so well in the UK Regions, they have a far bigger presence in those areas, taking passengers that BA badly need (and moving income from the UK and to America-France-Neatherlands)

Not an answer to the question unfortunately, just an irrelevant (but accurate) fact about another industry.

To answer the question “How would it be funded?” it would be the same as now, with taxpayers money and from fares (and renting out railway property…)

Don’t think there would be enough business for both (or even either) as HUY and DSA are fairly close to eachother and both airports do not have good road/rail links with the towns of the area.

Which would of the two be better out of Heathrow overall?
As mentioned before, with 3-4 rwys and more terminal capacity, anything becomes possible at LHR. The problem is convincing the politicians…………

BA is not the only UK carrier. It may be more cost-effective to collaborate with other carriers who have experience of thin routes, who can say?

Does BA CityFlyer (who operate the E-Jets) have enough experience in running “thin routes” after all they have their origins in BA Connect (and their predecessors)?

Is their lack of experience out of LHR/LGW enough to prevent them from doing so?

If so, then I suggest Flybe should operate then on behalf of BA (with the full BA service/branding)

Indeed, but only if LHR can get 2 more rwys before LGW needs a second.

I doubt if LGW gets an additional runway before LHR, both have the same delays and LHR has a better case for them than LGW

Thought so, pure conjecture about the 70% slot limit at any particular airport, and nothing of substance. Let’s put this one to bed.

Do you have any idea where I can get figures on slot allocation for AMS/CDG/ORY and FRA/MUC/DUS/BER/ZRH/GVA/VIE (I know where I can get those figures for LHR/LGW/LCY)

Pleased that the penny has finally dropped about Boris!

That’s why it’s SILVER Island!

I still think that we should not name this project after some PPRUNE forum member, after all it has been around for a very long time…

You’re forgetting about the Libdem marginals with Conservatives in second place, which is most of them! Now that the Libdems are in government, UKIP takes the “protest” vote that used to go to them. UKIP therefore takes votes from all parties. Many of the Libdem seat losses will go to the Conservatives. It's not as clear cut or as simple as you suggest.

While some Labour voters have switched to UKIP, most of the vote comes from Tory voters, more specifically the sort of voters who used to vote for Thatcher, so really it not good at all for the Tories, most of all when it comes Tory and Labour marginal seats

Labour is luckily there is no left-wing version of UKIP in the electoral system (for now…), so they have a good chance (for now…) in regaining power, the question is that will they have enough for a majority….

So the Tories will gain some seats, but lose some as well, while Labour will regain a fair number of seats as well, the Lib Dems will lose very badly, their left-wing voters will defect mainly to Labour/Greens and their right-wing voters will defect mainly to Tories/UKIP, so the Tories will not have the comfort in having them as a partner in government

So here is what could happen in 2015 (if the Tories don’t join up with UKIP), which is most likely to lead to a return of a Two-Party system (with the Lib Dems gone…):

1: Labour wins a majority

2: Labour wins the largest amount of seats, but enters into government with the Tories as a minority partner

3: The Tories wins the largest amount of seats, but enters into government with the Labour as a minority partner

The latter two would be disastrous for both parties…

The Tories also have very chance of winning a majority in their own right, since they have not increase their share of the vote when defending a election since the 50s (when they had a lot of support outside London + SE)

Actually Thatcher presided over two deep recessions, not an economic miracle. Useless opposition got her relected.

There'll be a 3rd rwy at LHR before options 1-4 happen! As for 5, Labour is more than capable of shooting itself in the foot, but probably not in the ways that you suggest.

She did turn the economic situation around during the mid-80s, but it did not last long and her economic policies (which were retained by Major/Blair/Brown/Cameron) have ultimately cased this mess, anyway for the rest of that time in power, it was terrible economically wise (most of all outside London + SE), the Falkland War also helped in 1983…

On the point 5, Labour would have to do something more stupid than they currently have been since Blair/Brown for them to lose enough support for the Tories to win a majority

Also I want to add 2 further points to what needs to happen for the Tories to win:

6: They get to pass a reduction of the number of MPs and changing the boundaries etc

7: Scotland has to become independent…

It's a new "mid haul" product on the ex BMI A321 which has been getting rather good reviews elsewhere. I think it's sold as Club World but the seats are all forward facing.

Will they be introducing this “mid haul” to other longer short-haul routes? (Like London-St Petersburg/Istanbul)

Frank - all I'm suggesting is that BA give a guarantee on UK routes from an expanded LHR - if they don't or won't we'll know they just want to expand long haul

and that is a serious vote loser outside the London business community

No need for a guarantee, BA wants to have more connecting flights to the UK and Europe to feed its medium/long-haul routes (cuurent and future), which is going to their rivals (at BA and the UK expense), that is why they bought BMI for a start…

[pwalhx]

Noone is asking for a hub in Manchester, and airlines don't seem to have trouble getting bums on business class seats or in fact First Class.

Are you aware that Cheshire is 2nd in the list of counties by number of millionaires. (FYI Manchester airport borders Cheshire).

I cannot be bothered to counter your arguments further your view is totally London centric and that is your choice.

[BALHR]

Noone is asking for a hub in Manchester, and airlines don't seem to have trouble getting bums on business class seats or in fact First Class.

Are you aware that Cheshire is 2nd in the list of counties by number of millionaires. (FYI Manchester airport borders Cheshire).

I cannot be bothered to counter your arguments further your view is totally London centric and that is your choice.

Are you asking for a focus city then?

Look I wish BA was back at MAN, but the question is can they make it work? (I am not to sure, but its not a easy task...)

If BA has a focus city at MAN, what routes could work?

Thanks for the info about Cheshire...

[Fairdealfrank]

Copy and paste?

Copy and paste?

Part of my text in post #2466:

"As mentioned before, with 3-4 rwys and more terminal capacity, anything becomes possible at LHR. The problem is convincing the politicians…………"

Part of BALHR’s text in post #2480:

“As mentioned before, with 3-4 rwys and more terminal capacity, anything becomes possible at LHR. The problem is convincing the politicians…………”

So BALHR's text not just coming from wikipedia?

They say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Should I be worried?

[pwalhx]

Look I wish BA was back at MAN, but the question is can they make it work? (I am not to sure, but its not a easy task...)

If BA has a focus city at MAN, what routes could work?


BA will not return to Manchester other than in the form of code sharing with it's OW partners, what may happen is more flights from AA for example. Also of course there is QR to join in shortly and some rumours of JL but this is just thread drift now, read the Manchester pages you will find the information there.

[BALHR]

Copy and paste?

Part of my text in post #2466:

"As mentioned before, with 3-4 rwys and more terminal capacity, anything becomes possible at LHR. The problem is convincing the politicians…………"

Part of BALHR’s text in post #2480:

“As mentioned before, with 3-4 rwys and more terminal capacity, anything becomes possible at LHR. The problem is convincing the politicians…………”

So BALHR's text not just coming from wikipedia?

They say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Should I be worried?

Since I was talking about the same thing, I might as well state the same thing as before, so yes I copied and pasted, but the content is orginal...

BA will not return to Manchester other than in the form of code sharing with it's OW partners, what may happen is more flights from AA for example. Also of course there is QR to join in shortly and some rumours of JL but this is just thread drift now, read the Manchester pages you will find the information there.

I understand what you mean and I am all in favour of BA codesharing on routes operated out of MAN by OW carriers...

[FR-]

What routes are mixed fleet? And what routes are planned to move to mixed fleet?

fr-

[TCX69]

What routes are mixed fleet? And what routes are planned to move to mixed fleet?

At the moment it's:

Abuja
Accra
Almaty
Baku
Cairo
Chicago
Hamburg
Kiev
Las Vegas
Los Angeles
Lyon
Luanda
Manchester
Nairobi
Paris-Orly
Pisa
Prague
Rio De Janeiro
Seoul
St. Petersburg
Tbilisi
Vienna

Think that's all of them.

Looks like FRA will be the A380 training route now so that will no doubt transfer to Mixed Fleet at some point too.

[aeulad]

Just a few alternations to that great list;

Denver and Phoenix have returned to WW.

Add Bergen and Stavanger to the list.

Mixed fleet also operate BA's Luanda service, which will increase to 3xweekly in the future.

Cairo is only with MF for January, after which it returns (767), to WW for the majority of the summer.

Chicago goes back to WW for FEB/MAR.

Kind regards

Mike

[Off Stand]

Stavanger is on operated by eurofleet, I think that Bergen might be too?

[cumbrianboy]

this is probably obvious but what does WW stand for?

[TOM100]

WW

WW=Worldwide Fleet/EF = Eurofleet