MANSTON -2
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: 35,000ft
Posts: 983
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok so from now on just developements at the airport please....
This thread is boring - pages and pages of nothing, needless waffle, say something productive or say nothing at all.
This thread is boring - pages and pages of nothing, needless waffle, say something productive or say nothing at all.
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Canterbury
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Meetings about Meetings
The people who dip into this thread and post "bait" for others are the kind of people who attend meetings and talk for the sake of talking and so the meeting goes on for an extra hour or two about absolutely nothing.
The thread may be boring but if theres nothing to say dont say anything.
If you want an interesting Manston thread, allow rumours to be posted without the usual subjects regurgitating (hope the spelling is correct) the same old bo**ocks and saying it will never happen.
Its like a roundabout and I'm getting very dizzy!!.
PS I've heard that BA Cargo have been back for another look!!
MDIS
The thread may be boring but if theres nothing to say dont say anything.
If you want an interesting Manston thread, allow rumours to be posted without the usual subjects regurgitating (hope the spelling is correct) the same old bo**ocks and saying it will never happen.
Its like a roundabout and I'm getting very dizzy!!.
PS I've heard that BA Cargo have been back for another look!!
MDIS
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Canterbury
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rumours
I was told about the BA visit by the people who issue the temp passes, so as far as I am concerned it is a genuine rumour.
The cruise flight info was also from someone at MSE, so again I can only go on the info I receive.
I have never said that something was confirmed I have posted that from the info I have something could happen.
I would not return and apologise for posting rubbish because at the time it is posted it is a genuine rumour, and from me at least, it is not speculation or pipe dreams.
IF BA Cargo did use MSE, whilst it souds good it would be no different to any other Cargo operator in terms of profitability. It may sound good on the airport CV but making a profit is the name of the game.
My question would be why do the other usual subjects get so up tight when a big name is linked with the airport?
MDIS
The cruise flight info was also from someone at MSE, so again I can only go on the info I receive.
I have never said that something was confirmed I have posted that from the info I have something could happen.
I would not return and apologise for posting rubbish because at the time it is posted it is a genuine rumour, and from me at least, it is not speculation or pipe dreams.
IF BA Cargo did use MSE, whilst it souds good it would be no different to any other Cargo operator in terms of profitability. It may sound good on the airport CV but making a profit is the name of the game.
My question would be why do the other usual subjects get so up tight when a big name is linked with the airport?
MDIS
Buzz off with BAF!!
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Essex England
Posts: 223
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MDIS ........"my question is why do the other usual subjects (do you mean suspects) get so uptight when a big name is linked with the airport..?"
May I suggest you reread all the hundreds of posts on this thread over
the years purporting to know about the fabulous future when the ink finally
dries on the contract just signed by BA, Ryanair, EasyJet, ad nausea ad nausea.
I think you will then have the answer to your own question.
Perhaps it is understandable if some of your readers are a little sceptical,
and may be even cynical.
May I suggest you reread all the hundreds of posts on this thread over
the years purporting to know about the fabulous future when the ink finally
dries on the contract just signed by BA, Ryanair, EasyJet, ad nausea ad nausea.
I think you will then have the answer to your own question.
Perhaps it is understandable if some of your readers are a little sceptical,
and may be even cynical.
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Canterbury
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tilewood
I did mean suspects, sorry about that slip.
I fully agree with you regarding people being sceptical or even cynical but the point I was making was that BA Cargo HAVE been to MSE, in what capacity I am not fully aware but as soon as I posted the info, up pops you know who saying "it aint gonna happen". Perhaps not, but I wasn't saying a deal had been done, or that operations were imminent, I merely stated that some representatives from BA Cargo had been at MSE and had been shown around.
My advise would be, if the doubters are so confident it wont happen why waste time posting replies.
MDIS
I did mean suspects, sorry about that slip.
I fully agree with you regarding people being sceptical or even cynical but the point I was making was that BA Cargo HAVE been to MSE, in what capacity I am not fully aware but as soon as I posted the info, up pops you know who saying "it aint gonna happen". Perhaps not, but I wasn't saying a deal had been done, or that operations were imminent, I merely stated that some representatives from BA Cargo had been at MSE and had been shown around.
My advise would be, if the doubters are so confident it wont happen why waste time posting replies.
MDIS
MDIS
Several times on this thread statements have appeared along the lines of "freight will never be profitable for MSE", and you now repeat this mantra.
Do you actually have any basis for stating this as a matter of fact, or is it just your opinion? Naturally there would probably be some form of initial cost incentives for any new operator, but these would be linked to a return to normal commercial terms after a specific period giving MSE a worthwhile income from the operation, taking into account movement fees and freight handling charges. No airport operator is likely to enter into an arrangement which will not produce a reasonable contribution from an on-going operation.
As a one-time air charter broker specialising in freight I never came across financial arrangements which did not follow those lines.
Passenger services are a different matter, as the airport operator would be seeking also to gain revenue from retail and catering franchises etc. within the terminal and may be more willing to make grants for marketing aid etc. while the route is becoming established. Nothing of this sort would be needed for a freight operation.
I believe that MSE could be quite successful in the freight market as it is sufficiently close to London for that type of traffic. As far as significant passenger operations are concerned, however, I think that to be extremely doubtful.
Several times on this thread statements have appeared along the lines of "freight will never be profitable for MSE", and you now repeat this mantra.
Do you actually have any basis for stating this as a matter of fact, or is it just your opinion? Naturally there would probably be some form of initial cost incentives for any new operator, but these would be linked to a return to normal commercial terms after a specific period giving MSE a worthwhile income from the operation, taking into account movement fees and freight handling charges. No airport operator is likely to enter into an arrangement which will not produce a reasonable contribution from an on-going operation.
As a one-time air charter broker specialising in freight I never came across financial arrangements which did not follow those lines.
Passenger services are a different matter, as the airport operator would be seeking also to gain revenue from retail and catering franchises etc. within the terminal and may be more willing to make grants for marketing aid etc. while the route is becoming established. Nothing of this sort would be needed for a freight operation.
I believe that MSE could be quite successful in the freight market as it is sufficiently close to London for that type of traffic. As far as significant passenger operations are concerned, however, I think that to be extremely doubtful.
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Canterbury
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Freight
Expressflight.
Thanks for the reasoned and calm response.
I totally agree that freight would produce a contribution to fixed costs and ultimately critical mass would be achieved and a profit would result.
What I was saying was that we should not get too excited about BA Cargo because I was not suggesting that the visit would result in a vast amount of movements and therefore profit.
I was trying to pre empt the doubters who would assume that BA Cargo would move into MSE lock stock and barrel, it may only be a couple of routes and it may be nothing but we will have to wait and see. No doubt Catflaps will give Willie Walsh a ring and put us all straight.
MDIS
Thanks for the reasoned and calm response.
I totally agree that freight would produce a contribution to fixed costs and ultimately critical mass would be achieved and a profit would result.
What I was saying was that we should not get too excited about BA Cargo because I was not suggesting that the visit would result in a vast amount of movements and therefore profit.
I was trying to pre empt the doubters who would assume that BA Cargo would move into MSE lock stock and barrel, it may only be a couple of routes and it may be nothing but we will have to wait and see. No doubt Catflaps will give Willie Walsh a ring and put us all straight.
MDIS
niknak
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 2,335
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
At the risk of straying into Jetblast territory, I would contest that there's no such thing as a "Genuine Rumour".
I should know, I've started enough of them.........
I should know, I've started enough of them.........
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sittingbourne Kent and at Wimborne Dorset
Age: 37
Posts: 265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The cruise flight info was also from someone at MSE, so again I can only go on the info I receive.
When I was away at me nan and grandads last week I found something intresting, As they go on Cruise ships alot they got a booklet about some cruise's from Dover and what I found intresting is that in the month of October it had Dover to the Caribbean but the return trip was by plane so maybe to Manston and another one it had was flying out to the Caribbean and come back by ship to Dover. But noing my luck its all from LGW.
PS be good to have BA Cargo at MSE
JAmes
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Twyford, UK
Posts: 492
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I believe that MSE could be quite successful in the freight market as it is sufficiently close to London for that type of traffic. As far as significant passenger operations are concerned, however, I think that to be extremely doubtful
Expressflight.... Spot on. I strongly believe that with the congestion at London's Major airports, pure freight operation will be the first to suffer and MSE could be poised to pick up that traffic. That's the niche market. Trucking pallets from the existing warehouses by pallet carrying trucks is not exactly rocket science, although it is a trifle environmentally dodgy, but it is a solution to the slot problems without dismatling exisiting warehouses or freight drop facilities. Even bulk Cargo made up locally at MSE is quite possible. AEI did it very successfully in the eighties as do other carriers. definitely the way to go, and if BA really are interested, I for one would cheer myself hoarse.
Tilewood.... It didn't take much bait though did it.!!
It IS a debate and if dreams are thrown in without a shred of economics to back them up, then I for one will put my two penn'orth in. Is that fair.?
Unfortunately (Fortunately.??) hard economics drive the business world, and if MSE can't pay it's way, why would anyone invest.? I think there are some posters here who could tell you what just one ATCO costs in Sterling, never mind all the other fine ladies and gents, someone has to put food on their tables and to make that happen requires hard headed bean counters who know how to keep the chicken counters in check.!
Expressflight.... Spot on. I strongly believe that with the congestion at London's Major airports, pure freight operation will be the first to suffer and MSE could be poised to pick up that traffic. That's the niche market. Trucking pallets from the existing warehouses by pallet carrying trucks is not exactly rocket science, although it is a trifle environmentally dodgy, but it is a solution to the slot problems without dismatling exisiting warehouses or freight drop facilities. Even bulk Cargo made up locally at MSE is quite possible. AEI did it very successfully in the eighties as do other carriers. definitely the way to go, and if BA really are interested, I for one would cheer myself hoarse.
Tilewood.... It didn't take much bait though did it.!!
It IS a debate and if dreams are thrown in without a shred of economics to back them up, then I for one will put my two penn'orth in. Is that fair.?
Unfortunately (Fortunately.??) hard economics drive the business world, and if MSE can't pay it's way, why would anyone invest.? I think there are some posters here who could tell you what just one ATCO costs in Sterling, never mind all the other fine ladies and gents, someone has to put food on their tables and to make that happen requires hard headed bean counters who know how to keep the chicken counters in check.!
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kent
Posts: 114
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MDIS - It is only 5 flights that have gone, the ALC between 2/9 - 23/9 plus 11/10. The a/c will still drop in on 2/9 and 11/10 to bring back the returning pax from the previous weeks, so not all is lost.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Warrington, UK
Posts: 253
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2 weeks ago i was in ALC airport and i noticed a long queue of pax waitin for check-in to return back to MSE on a Skywing flight operated for Kent Escape/Seguro. it seemed to be pretty full. 2 desks were opened.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Derby
Age: 51
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MSE for freight
This is a longggg thread, so in all honesty I havent read much of it.....so all I have below is some personal observations (with no intent to annoy / upset etc etc)
'The Black Hangar'....does that still exist? I did hear it was gonna ripped down....probably not a bad thing
I was at MSE a couple of years ago for a few charters on we were repping on the 74F (not MK). You know what.....I loved it. It was like stepping back in time (that's not a gripe....i really did enjoy it), and the guys and girls were spot on. Slave pallets, doing the build on the floor with the PMC's on blocks of wood, customs docs sent of in a cab to the town, everybody saying 'hi' all the things that make working at a regional airport a pleasure. We also got the guided tour of the new pax terminal after it was refurbished for EU Jet...ok it was tiny, but the airport management (Reg, Tony and some other fella) had a real sense of pride about there check-in area.
Unfortunately though (and again I mean that sincerely) as soon as we had the guided tour myself and my other Freight Dog partner said to each other something along the lines of "do you think that this place is really going to make a go of pax flights"....we both gave a shake of our heads.
I heard theres a new warehouse,and a BIP there now (hope you have dollies for the PMC now too
), that's where MSE would have always struggled if not. The MK op seemed to work well but it had no physical handling as far as I saw, just through units straight from the a/c to trucks to LHR. No facility there from what I saw for a proper build and break operation for cargo.
AND why oh why that damned name change..... London Manston (like London Luton....COME ON please !!) I am waiting for the Scottish parliment to declare London Inverness Airport just because it sounds like its in the right area. LOL.
Anyway ...it may sound that I am trying to slay MSE, but truthfully I am not. I enjoyed my visits there. I hope I get the chance to work from there again (oh and by god theres some dodgy pubs in ramsgate !!)
OG
'The Black Hangar'....does that still exist? I did hear it was gonna ripped down....probably not a bad thing
I was at MSE a couple of years ago for a few charters on we were repping on the 74F (not MK). You know what.....I loved it. It was like stepping back in time (that's not a gripe....i really did enjoy it), and the guys and girls were spot on. Slave pallets, doing the build on the floor with the PMC's on blocks of wood, customs docs sent of in a cab to the town, everybody saying 'hi' all the things that make working at a regional airport a pleasure. We also got the guided tour of the new pax terminal after it was refurbished for EU Jet...ok it was tiny, but the airport management (Reg, Tony and some other fella) had a real sense of pride about there check-in area.
Unfortunately though (and again I mean that sincerely) as soon as we had the guided tour myself and my other Freight Dog partner said to each other something along the lines of "do you think that this place is really going to make a go of pax flights"....we both gave a shake of our heads.
I heard theres a new warehouse,and a BIP there now (hope you have dollies for the PMC now too
), that's where MSE would have always struggled if not. The MK op seemed to work well but it had no physical handling as far as I saw, just through units straight from the a/c to trucks to LHR. No facility there from what I saw for a proper build and break operation for cargo.AND why oh why that damned name change..... London Manston (like London Luton....COME ON please !!) I am waiting for the Scottish parliment to declare London Inverness Airport just because it sounds like its in the right area. LOL.
Anyway ...it may sound that I am trying to slay MSE, but truthfully I am not. I enjoyed my visits there. I hope I get the chance to work from there again (oh and by god theres some dodgy pubs in ramsgate !!)
OG
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sittingbourne Kent and at Wimborne Dorset
Age: 37
Posts: 265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The flights were cancelled because of poor loads later in the season.
Regards
James