Flybe/Bacon - 4
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Apparantly it is fuel efficiency. I believe the fuel burn for the Q400 is a little higher in the cruise than the 145, but you can get 28 more bums on seats on the Q400 making it more viable. The economics make sense on the domestics, but on the longer routes I'm not so sure. The 145 burns 1000kg-1100kg/hr in the cruise at FL370, TAS around 440kts with 49 seats. Dash 8 is capped at FL250 due O2 requirements.
From a pax perspective, not so sure about the experience of a MAN-MXP or BHX-HAM in a Q400 w.r.t noise, time, cb dodging etc.
Ticket price will no doubt be the deciding factor for passengers, however Flybe aren't rock bottom, I know of a passenger who paid around £650 for a last minute return to STR. Obviously if you buy in advance fares are v.cheap, but with their extra charges, tend to be more expensive than Ryanair.
Then of course, where will they get all the pilots from to fly these things?
From a pax perspective, not so sure about the experience of a MAN-MXP or BHX-HAM in a Q400 w.r.t noise, time, cb dodging etc.
Ticket price will no doubt be the deciding factor for passengers, however Flybe aren't rock bottom, I know of a passenger who paid around £650 for a last minute return to STR. Obviously if you buy in advance fares are v.cheap, but with their extra charges, tend to be more expensive than Ryanair.
Then of course, where will they get all the pilots from to fly these things?
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: uk
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Thanks, matey - any other commenters from FlyBE?
I didn't realise the intention would be to operate Q400 that far into Europe. Am I being stupid, or does this mean using a slower, lower, higher fuel-burn, arguably less comfortable type for such routes?
'Your management would have to be stark staring mad to think the pax will like that!'
'MMMMMaaaaiiirrrggghh!' (Apols to Blackadder authors)
I didn't realise the intention would be to operate Q400 that far into Europe. Am I being stupid, or does this mean using a slower, lower, higher fuel-burn, arguably less comfortable type for such routes?
'Your management would have to be stark staring mad to think the pax will like that!'
'MMMMMaaaaiiirrrggghh!' (Apols to Blackadder authors)
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Isle of Man
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Credit where it's due?
So it seems that the IOM-Gatwick route is up by 17% on last year's figures, Flybe very quick to say they have turned an ailing, ex BACon route round and they alone are responsible for this vast increase in numbers. Surely, they only took over in March, and as the IOM-Luton route had already been dropped, the Gatwick figures were bound to improve on last year's figures! Very pleased to see it as good news, means they will keep the route going, but to take credit for this huge increase in passenger numbers I feel is a bit wide of the mark.
Join Date: May 2006
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You would be very surprised how good the Q4 is on the longer sectors. Average burn around 1050kg/hr. Very rarely come across wx probs at FL250. Very comfie for the pax in the cabin.
There have been many early tech probs, APU's have been a big prob too. Dare I say?..the reliability seems to be improving as they sort out the 'gliches'.
Jet vs Q4 - Recently I departed a UK airport for GVA. The FCA A320 departed 10 mins prior to the Q4 and we arrived back 10 mins before said FCA A320.
There have been many early tech probs, APU's have been a big prob too. Dare I say?..the reliability seems to be improving as they sort out the 'gliches'.
Jet vs Q4 - Recently I departed a UK airport for GVA. The FCA A320 departed 10 mins prior to the Q4 and we arrived back 10 mins before said FCA A320.
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Talking about doing better on route's, the MXP is doing very well, atm they are running more or less full on there 2 rotations on the 145 (Out of MAN).
The did use a Q4 to do an MXP run a week or so back so it can make it
What flybe look at is how much it costs to run an a/c per seat, and with the Q4 being a new a/c it has better fuel eco, i.e for example a lesser taxi fuel (heard 70 kg instead of 150Kg for a 145).
Almost 50% less than a 145 + the cabin is bigger, i.e. more head room, pax feel less "tinned"
The 145 maybe a little faster than a Q4, but a later arrival time compared with 100's of pounds more reveune, i think we all know which way flybe will go....
The did use a Q4 to do an MXP run a week or so back so it can make it
What flybe look at is how much it costs to run an a/c per seat, and with the Q4 being a new a/c it has better fuel eco, i.e for example a lesser taxi fuel (heard 70 kg instead of 150Kg for a 145).
Almost 50% less than a 145 + the cabin is bigger, i.e. more head room, pax feel less "tinned"
The 145 maybe a little faster than a Q4, but a later arrival time compared with 100's of pounds more reveune, i think we all know which way flybe will go....
IIRC the 146 burns approx 2t per hr in the cruise, so that's up to 78 pax (70-80% of the 146 load) on half the fuel. The economics speak for themselves I guess.
Have paxed in it a few times. Cabin felt light, roomy and not at all unpleasant to me
Have paxed in it a few times. Cabin felt light, roomy and not at all unpleasant to me
Join Date: May 2005
Location: UK
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LGW/IOM should be doing well as BACON only operated 3 x daily schedule, and this year its 4 x daily.
MAN/MXP should also being doing better than last year as Alitalia operated a 2 x daily schedule last year, BACOn added a 3rd flight Mon to Fri last Oct, which Flybe have removed - must be why they're charging such high prieces!
MAN/MXP should also being doing better than last year as Alitalia operated a 2 x daily schedule last year, BACOn added a 3rd flight Mon to Fri last Oct, which Flybe have removed - must be why they're charging such high prieces!
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: England
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Bhx - Mxp
I made a comment on page 4 about the Flybe service out of Birmingham. Well I write at this moment in time from the business lounge at Maplensa. On check in at 1030 here I was informed of a 2 hour delay. I managed to call the ticket desk at BHX to enquire asa to why it is delayed. I hear there is a tech fault on one of the 145's. 
I was in Brum this morning and the Milan flight wasn't the only one with a major delay. I have to say that I'm giving FLYBE a wide berth just at present. Lucky for me that I have the luxury of other choices.
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Flybe @ BHX
What a shambles! 
The few remaining business passengers have been driven to rivals or to other airports. Everyday, there are delays to several flights of several hours. BHX management should be talking to airlines that are able to operate a regular, punctual timetable of flights.
Are Flybe commited to BHX? It looks as if they are not at the moment.
Daza
The few remaining business passengers have been driven to rivals or to other airports. Everyday, there are delays to several flights of several hours. BHX management should be talking to airlines that are able to operate a regular, punctual timetable of flights.
Are Flybe commited to BHX? It looks as if they are not at the moment.
Daza
Join Date: Aug 2005
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DAZA
Well Birmingham stuck by BA cityflyer, BA connect etc and no one can say they ever operated a punctual service at any point in time. Its time people gave Flybe a chance, BA connects inept management in Didsbury and ops in BHX made such a shambles of everything its going to take time to get it running better.
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Flybe @ BHX
Railgun,
Flybe have never had a good ontime record at BHX and have always had the nickname "Flymaybe" (I have friends and relatives who work for several handling agents, airlines and cabin crew. My brother worked for BACON at BHX. I work in the travel industry but not directly for BHX.)
BACON whatever you thought about it NEVER had such poor punctuality (Im sure someone like Olton Pete could get his hands on the stats??) for such prolonged periods effecting such a wide range of services check out BHX-ABZ this am delayed 2hrs 45 mins this happenes to this route almost every day this week. What will happen people will use WW at BHX or worse still T3 at EMA. I think that your respone is a Swissport/Flybe coverup. Other Flybe bases arn't having the same problems. You seem to in the know and didn't answer the question are Flybe really commited to BHX?
Daza
Flybe have never had a good ontime record at BHX and have always had the nickname "Flymaybe" (I have friends and relatives who work for several handling agents, airlines and cabin crew. My brother worked for BACON at BHX. I work in the travel industry but not directly for BHX.)
BACON whatever you thought about it NEVER had such poor punctuality (Im sure someone like Olton Pete could get his hands on the stats??) for such prolonged periods effecting such a wide range of services check out BHX-ABZ this am delayed 2hrs 45 mins this happenes to this route almost every day this week. What will happen people will use WW at BHX or worse still T3 at EMA. I think that your respone is a Swissport/Flybe coverup. Other Flybe bases arn't having the same problems. You seem to in the know and didn't answer the question are Flybe really commited to BHX?
Daza
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Daza
BA Connect/Cityexpress punctuality from other stations outside of the BHX bubble was terrible. Just because BHX punctuality is suffering a little at the moment does not mean they are not committed to BHX. They have taken on a failing airline that will take a lot of saving.
PS i dont work for flybe and i dont work for swissport.
PS i dont work for flybe and i dont work for swissport.
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Flybe/BACON
Daza
I can only back you up.
I do not have the stats but I have been a BHX "watcher" and traveller for over 31 years including 5 years working in the front line for THF.
BA in whatever form were simply fantastic for time keeping with the ATP the only aircraft to give real trouble and perhaps the 145 in the early days.
Now Jersey/flybe is a totally different story, whether it was the F27's, 146's, CRJ's or now the Dash 8's they seem to have been plagued by delays. I have mainly kept clear of them simply because of cost (they
are far from the cheapest) and my only flight was delayed over an
hour by a tech Dash 8.
The only plus point is that they have the nerve to publish the weekly punctuality stats on their website but I doubt that the average pax
visits the "news" section on their site when booking (luckily).
I am sure BHX management would love to read the riot act to flybe
but things don't work like that. At the moment I would imagine that
they are trying to keep all the current airlines sweet rather than laying
into them - a dangerous game in some ways.
Pete
I can only back you up.
I do not have the stats but I have been a BHX "watcher" and traveller for over 31 years including 5 years working in the front line for THF.
BA in whatever form were simply fantastic for time keeping with the ATP the only aircraft to give real trouble and perhaps the 145 in the early days.
Now Jersey/flybe is a totally different story, whether it was the F27's, 146's, CRJ's or now the Dash 8's they seem to have been plagued by delays. I have mainly kept clear of them simply because of cost (they
are far from the cheapest) and my only flight was delayed over an
hour by a tech Dash 8.
The only plus point is that they have the nerve to publish the weekly punctuality stats on their website but I doubt that the average pax
visits the "news" section on their site when booking (luckily).
I am sure BHX management would love to read the riot act to flybe
but things don't work like that. At the moment I would imagine that
they are trying to keep all the current airlines sweet rather than laying
into them - a dangerous game in some ways.
Pete
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Flybe @ BHX
Thanks Pete,
Perhaps its time a real BACON alternative was sought? Maybe BMI Regional an airline previously overlooked by BHX? Who recalls BD BHX-BRU and the TXL timetable shift to favour BA in the early nineties? Perhaps they would be better placed to operate small regional jets point-to-point to business destinations? Maybe Flybe should stick to France and low fares. Railgun the BHX bubble???? this thread is about BHX, hence why my comments relate to BHX???
Daza
Perhaps its time a real BACON alternative was sought? Maybe BMI Regional an airline previously overlooked by BHX? Who recalls BD BHX-BRU and the TXL timetable shift to favour BA in the early nineties? Perhaps they would be better placed to operate small regional jets point-to-point to business destinations? Maybe Flybe should stick to France and low fares. Railgun the BHX bubble???? this thread is about BHX, hence why my comments relate to BHX???
Daza
Join Date: Aug 2002
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My comment was titled Flybe@BHX, hence why my comments were about BHX? I have little or no knowledge of Flybe ops at other UK airports. I dont live near Norwich, Exeter or Southampton. Are the Flybe supporters on here not wanting to acknowledge the problems there are at one of Flybes largest bases? Lets hope that other station ops are somewhat more efficient than bhx, if the airline wants to survive?
Daza
Daza
Last edited by Daza; 12th May 2007 at 19:35.
Join Date: May 2002
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I remember in the BACon days we used to get the BA news, which always had an ontime performance section. BA used to make abbout 3rd/4th place most months even though BA uses actual times rather than other carriers who use STD + 15 to classify as on time!
Then there was a section that split the performance within the BA group including franchises and BAcon/Citiexpress were almost always top!
Now Flybe, there are problems although they are getting better I would say my average delay would be 10-15 mins most shifts but generally get to the other end on time or early. Shouldnt have said that could be a long day tommorow
Then there was a section that split the performance within the BA group including franchises and BAcon/Citiexpress were almost always top!
Now Flybe, there are problems although they are getting better I would say my average delay would be 10-15 mins most shifts but generally get to the other end on time or early. Shouldnt have said that could be a long day tommorow