Flybe/Bacon - 4
 

I had the misfortune to fly Flybe on MAN-CDG-MAN last week. Outbound we were sat at the gate while a member of Flight Safety management shouted down here mobile to someone in the office that "they were shooting themselves in the f@cking foot" by not chocking the wheels and coning off the wingtips right". Boarding time came and went and we were informed that there would be a delay due to "security" issues, just as the cleaners got on and they emptied the toilet, yeah right, security. Finally got on twenty minutes after scheduled departure time and on the taxi to the runway we had to park up, as the captain informed us "the ground crew disconnected the generator so the aircraft had been sat so long that it's batteries had lost almost all charge". Finally got airborne and the remainder of the journey was uneventful apart from the improbably young and skinny first officer. Coming back on an EMB145 (far better than the dash in my opinion) we were again delayed, this time as the captain informed us, "due to things that you wouldn't believe at Manchester, it's really ridiculous there at the moment". I'm presuming that he was referring to the type of ground handling mistakes that had occurred on the outbound leg, seems a little unprofessional of the captain but then I suppose he's frustated.


CONTINUATION OF: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=251059&page=17

You're dead right to be worried. On the return journey pax for BHD have to disembark, clear immigration, (ie go land side), then re-embark through fast track security.
25 minutes turn round - dream on!
Just tell me about it. This outfit is a joke. Worse than your average air taxi operator.

[/QUOTE]Boarding time came and went and we were informed that there would be a delay due to "security" issues, just as the cleaners got on and they emptied the toilet, yeah right, security.[/QUOTE]

Maybe the cleaners had to wait before the security issue was sorted out?

Which A/c was it, Q400? If so they have there own power unit. I cant remember or have seen the Dash 300 do a CDG flight.
Even so, once the engines are running, they then supply the power anyway to the a/c not the apu. So the above comment seems a bit strange.

The 145's are going to be phased out by the Q400's, so if you flyBE you are going to see alot more of them.....

As for the Capt's comment of "to things that you wouldn't believe at Manchester, it's really ridiculous there at the moment," seems a bit unprofestional to say something like that over the tanoy. :=

TBH if you now hate flybe because of this one trip, try Air France or Jet2. :rolleyes:

Air France - how refreshing CDG - MAN. Big aircraft (Airbus), loads of stowage (no "that bags too big - put it in the hold"), sockets to power laptop and plenty of space to use it, and a great (free) breakfast to boot.
Flybe/Bacon - get real.

IM guessing the price is different to.

FlyBE - Eco

AirFrance -Eco


An extra £39 pounds when it cost just £3 to check a bag in. Also the flybe flights I took, were not the cheapist on the day.
Just tried to get the times more or less the same. There are alot less flights to CDG from AF than BE, so if you are a business traveller, it might BE better for you?

Oh and a A319 is the smallist plane Airbus make :p

Techproblem
 

If we ignore the A318, then the A319 is indeed the smallest plane Airbus makes. As for schedules, AF runs 5 per day (4 Airbuses of differing marques and 1 FK70/ERJ145) and BE 4 Mon-Fri. 2 on Sa and 3 on Sun.

On most flights (especially the early) MAN-CDG the Air France flight gets to CDG first irrespective of who leaves MAN first. "Jersey xxx - Paris, reduce speed 220 kts, turn right 60 degrees". "Air France xxx maintain 300 kts plus, direct MERUE".
A few minutes less for breakfast but certainly guaranteed on stand first.
Also remember most business punters get a far better corporate rate than website quotes.

Which A/c was it, Q400? If so they have there own power unit. I cant remember or have seen the Dash 300 do a CDG flight.
Even so, once the engines are running, they then supply the power anyway to the a/c not the apu. So the above comment seems a bit strange.

Q400 does have an APU, true, but it would appear from the comments in the article that the a/c was on ground power during the turnaround. If the GPU drops off line, or gets disconnected inadvertantly, then the batteries take a major hit and it can take anything up to 50 minutes with engines running to reach the acceptable limitations for take off.

As for the ex-Rasher captain, frustration we can understand, but that is just unprofessional and makes him sound like a tool. Probably one of the guys who is leaving, so hopefully good riddance.

I wasn't having a pop at Flybe per-se, was just pointing out that they seem to having handling problems at MAN that they are very aware of and the customer service issues that they bring up. As for the points raised in the replies, the aircraft had been parked on stand for a good hour with no activity going on right up until the supposed boarding time, when fueling, and nothing else commenced, surely the security and cleaning could have been done in this time? As for the APU, yes, it was a Q400, but the point the captain made was that as it had been disconnected there wouldn't have been enough time on the taxi to charge the batteries adequately, hence we had a five minutes sit in the engine run up area to ensure we had sufficient power. As for the you get what you pay for argument, well, this was originally booked as a BA Miles reward flight, so for nothing I'm guessing I shouldn't really complain, at least FlyBe offer a MAN-CDG now. As for Air France, used them last year, thought they were great, probably not great enough to justify the extra cost, but when you're on a a through ticket from MAN to the far east it's probably as good as being for free anyway. Anyway, to confirm my earlier post "Flybe seem to think that their handling at Manchester is appalling"

Frankfurt - I don't want to get unnecessarily technical, but just to clarify Maude's comment about the APU/GPU, as he says it sounds as though the aircraft was being powered by a Ground Power Unit during the turnaround as the aircraft's Auxiliary Power Unit may have been broken. If the GPU trips off for any reason the aircraft's batteries are the only things powering the aircraft, and can take a big hit if the problem goes unnoticed. This could have been a contributory factor in the turnaround taking so long, i.e. once the problem was noticed the GPU would be reconnected and allowed to charge the batteries, and the Captain may have elected to delay boarding for the batteries to recharge. Additionally, with the APU broken and therefore not providing air conditioning the departure longe is definitely a more comfortable environment than the cabin on warm days.

With a bad GPU the aircraft's batteries would have then taken a further large hit during engine start, so during the taxi phase the crew would not have been waiting for the aircraft to reach adequate power, but for the battery charge rate to reach the required minimum level for take off, as dictated by the aircraft's operating manual.

last item in Q400 shutdown checklist....Batt;s & Batt Master,,,!
Follow SOP's - funny thing eh they are there for a reason & also no excuses as it is a Challenge & response!

Actually, the final item on the shutdown checklist it is Battery Master only, and set 'as required'. On a turnaround, this would normally remain on, so as to avoid plunging everything into darkness and requiring a complete reset of the flight deck instruments/FMS. I can see flying with you would be a lot of extra work.

:}

I would agree however, that best practice on an extended turnaround where the crew have vacated the flight deck, is to turn the 3 batteries off which would help to avoid just this kind of situation.

I'm not meaning to be pedantic but I thought MAN had FEP's on each stand to cut down the use of GPU's ? From past experience, it was difficult to tell if the FEP was on or off, even though it was plugged into the aircraft, until we were in the 'office' and we were met with an array of black screens, or not as the case may be.

"Flybe seem to think that their handling at Manchester is appalling"

Wheres your proof of this statement? Official source? or just plain old claptrap?

If your judging that comment based on a disgruntled captains view (probably ex bacon) then maybe you should rethink it and take a deeper look into things.

Everyone is so keen to flame the new handling agent at MAN but delays are often due to crew sickness, tech or LIAC.
Under the circumstances that flight support have been under, they have done amazingly well given the time to prepare for flybe and train staff up ready for it.

Was over on fraggle rock last week and flew with Flybe. No problems either way, outbound and inbound on time and a 145 instead of the old tractors Bacon used. Coming back into Man got off the plane at 1410, walked into arrivals and my case was on the belt waiting for me (never happened when flying BA) so I would state from my experience the ground team did pretty good.

Just a side note on the 145, it may be small inside but what a performance, Man to Fraggle on a Dash was 45 mins on the Emb 22 mins and fun as well.

Rob

Your 22 min trip in the 145 was also massively subsidised by the BA 'sweetner'. Best make the most of it while it lasts.:hmm:

Ohhhh Yes thats for sure as soon as a Q400 arrives its back to Liverpool and Euromanx for me!!!!

Seriously I guess I will just have to try FlyBe when they are fully converted, I used to be a regular on BA until last year only reason I defected was because the flight out of Fraggle was never on time and late 3 out of 4 times from Manchester. If that dosnt work theres always Manx2 From Blackpool (anyone know what flying in the LET is like)

Rob

The reason you are getting 'appalling service' at MAN is because the BA ground handling boys and girls are being right royally shafted and aren't exactly bothered whether or not your flight is on time or powered up.
Not all stands have FEP and even if it does, it doesn't necessarily work all the time.
APUs are often turned off as required. Just because the aircraft is on GPU/FEP doesn't mean the APU is b*ggered.
The bags are loaded & offloaded by the same people now as they were for BA.
Finally, it is common practice, if not SOPS to switch batteries off when leaving the aircraft without pilot/engineering present.
:ok: :ok:

The Q400 won't be much slower on the route - the 145 is not above FL 100 for long enough to use it's speed advantage.

Rob, glad you enjoyed your trip.

I wonder if anyone can help me. I was looking at the press release on the CWL website. It states that flybe want to develope at CWL. Obviously this can't be done untill they sort out the crewing issues.

How many a/c have they got on order and of which type. I have noticed that they want to get rid of the BAConnect a/c as soon as possible. Are all their E145 ex Bacon or are some of them FlyBe's? Just been looking at the mayfly and there seems to be a lot of E145 on there.

Thanks for your help

:ok: