BA Cityflyer
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As you all know, it has been said that CityJet could be up for sale by its owners Air France-KLM, this is due to the fact they have a rather large debts, facing fairly large losses and restructuring their business
CityJet (and its subsidiary VLM) has historically been the largest operator out of London City Airport, but that position is being challenged increasingly BA CityFlyer (the last remains of the former BA Connect), who have launched new routes and received new Embraer’s (CityJet fleet consists of Avro’s and Fokker’s)
BA themselves operate a “boutique” Trans-Atlantic route to JFK (using the old LHR-JFK Concorde flight numbers) using A318
CityJet themselves have made losses in recent years and with increasing competition from BA CityFlyer, I doubt if there would be too many airlines interested (VS has problems of their own, Flybe would rather spend their limited reserves on buying Windroe and has conflicts of interest with the face their biggest shareholder is BA)
So what I am asking is should BA CityFlyer buy CityJet?
BA CityFlyer is doing rather well currently (hence it was a good idea to keep this operation when it sold the rest of BA Connect to Flybe), but the problem (like BA at LHR), is that LCY cannot be expanded very much (mainly due to is location), so the only expansion for BA CityFlyer is to buy existing slots and the only other major operator at LCY is CityJet, in others words, it’s a BMI-style opportunity for them
Remember, the only routes that both airlines compete on are LCY-Edinburgh/Amsterdam
Now the main problem with integrating CityJet into BA CityFlyer is their fleet and their Offices/MX operations
CityJet’s fleet consists of 22 X Avro RJ85s and 14 X Fokker 50s (formally of VLM), both types are not in BA CityFlyer (although they used to operate RJ85s), whose fleet consists of 6 X Embraer E-170s and 8 X Embraer E-190s (1 X Saab 2000, is operated on behalf of BA CityFlyer by Eastern Airways)
Firstly what a CityJet takeover would mean for BA CityFlyer would be that their fleet (before integration of both fleets) would increase by 300%, this increase would reduce mainly due to the withdrawal of its CDG routes apart from LHR-CDG (which would be taken up by Air France’s regional subsidiaries)
To make sure the airlines retains a similar fleet to before, I’m guessing they would have to order additional E-170s/E-190s (around 15-20), as for the Fokker 50s, they are likely to be replaced by either used second hand Saab 2000s (it’s said they quite like the leased aircraft used on the LCY-IOM route) or if they prefer new aircraft, the ATR 42-600
This would give (roughly, not counting post-integration) BA CityFlyer a fleet size of 40 aircraft, which is only 8 less that the BA Connect fleet before its sale to Flybe (bar the LCY ops), remember BA connect operated out of not just London City, but also Birmingham, Manchester, Southampton, Bristol, Glasgow, Aberdeen, Edinburgh, Belfast, Isle of Man, Newcastle and the Channel Islands
As for their offices in Dublin and Antwerp, without a doubt they will close (BA has no reason to retain them) and their staff will be located to BA CityFlyer’s HQ in Manchester
MX at Dublin and Antwerp, I am not so sure, could BA expand their current MX to cope with CityJet?
This would consolidate their position at LCY and make the airport an important part of BA’s ops (this from a small part of BA Connect, which was a small part of BA), if they do this deal, then it would like a BMI takeover like moment for BA CityFlyer
CityJet (and its subsidiary VLM) has historically been the largest operator out of London City Airport, but that position is being challenged increasingly BA CityFlyer (the last remains of the former BA Connect), who have launched new routes and received new Embraer’s (CityJet fleet consists of Avro’s and Fokker’s)
BA themselves operate a “boutique” Trans-Atlantic route to JFK (using the old LHR-JFK Concorde flight numbers) using A318
CityJet themselves have made losses in recent years and with increasing competition from BA CityFlyer, I doubt if there would be too many airlines interested (VS has problems of their own, Flybe would rather spend their limited reserves on buying Windroe and has conflicts of interest with the face their biggest shareholder is BA)
So what I am asking is should BA CityFlyer buy CityJet?
BA CityFlyer is doing rather well currently (hence it was a good idea to keep this operation when it sold the rest of BA Connect to Flybe), but the problem (like BA at LHR), is that LCY cannot be expanded very much (mainly due to is location), so the only expansion for BA CityFlyer is to buy existing slots and the only other major operator at LCY is CityJet, in others words, it’s a BMI-style opportunity for them
Remember, the only routes that both airlines compete on are LCY-Edinburgh/Amsterdam
Now the main problem with integrating CityJet into BA CityFlyer is their fleet and their Offices/MX operations
CityJet’s fleet consists of 22 X Avro RJ85s and 14 X Fokker 50s (formally of VLM), both types are not in BA CityFlyer (although they used to operate RJ85s), whose fleet consists of 6 X Embraer E-170s and 8 X Embraer E-190s (1 X Saab 2000, is operated on behalf of BA CityFlyer by Eastern Airways)
Firstly what a CityJet takeover would mean for BA CityFlyer would be that their fleet (before integration of both fleets) would increase by 300%, this increase would reduce mainly due to the withdrawal of its CDG routes apart from LHR-CDG (which would be taken up by Air France’s regional subsidiaries)
To make sure the airlines retains a similar fleet to before, I’m guessing they would have to order additional E-170s/E-190s (around 15-20), as for the Fokker 50s, they are likely to be replaced by either used second hand Saab 2000s (it’s said they quite like the leased aircraft used on the LCY-IOM route) or if they prefer new aircraft, the ATR 42-600
This would give (roughly, not counting post-integration) BA CityFlyer a fleet size of 40 aircraft, which is only 8 less that the BA Connect fleet before its sale to Flybe (bar the LCY ops), remember BA connect operated out of not just London City, but also Birmingham, Manchester, Southampton, Bristol, Glasgow, Aberdeen, Edinburgh, Belfast, Isle of Man, Newcastle and the Channel Islands
As for their offices in Dublin and Antwerp, without a doubt they will close (BA has no reason to retain them) and their staff will be located to BA CityFlyer’s HQ in Manchester
MX at Dublin and Antwerp, I am not so sure, could BA expand their current MX to cope with CityJet?
This would consolidate their position at LCY and make the airport an important part of BA’s ops (this from a small part of BA Connect, which was a small part of BA), if they do this deal, then it would like a BMI takeover like moment for BA CityFlyer
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If BA Cityflyer buy's Cityjet, they will get too many slots and privileges at LCY that the European Commission will probably not agree on this takeover. European Commissioner for Competition
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If BA Cityflyer buy's Cityjet, they will get too many slots and privileges at
LCY that the European Commission will probably not agree on this takeover. European Commissioner for Competition
LCY that the European Commission will probably not agree on this takeover. European Commissioner for Competition
Despite the fact that you have to factor LON is served by 5 other airports?
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Are you just wildly speculating or do you have any reason to believe CFE are after WX?
Another interesting thread ruined......
Look mate, CFE don't need to spend money buying them when they can wait for them to close or fail. Perhaps you might want to look at BA's track record of buying out other non LHR based carriers before you embark on another 10,000 words. (Yes I know they were EMA based but it makes my point work better!)
Another interesting thread ruined......
Look mate, CFE don't need to spend money buying them when they can wait for them to close or fail. Perhaps you might want to look at BA's track record of buying out other non LHR based carriers before you embark on another 10,000 words. (Yes I know they were EMA based but it makes my point work better!)
Last edited by Skipness One Echo; 18th Dec 2012 at 17:03.
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IAG has said it's not interested in buying CityJet. The only asset it has of interest to BACF are peak time slots for out and back in a day business trips. And all BACF has to do is sit and wait for these to come its way.
Also, before IAG bought bmi the plan was to move some short-haul capacity from LHR to LCY to allow for long-haul growth. Now that BA has more slots than it knows what to do with, there's less of a pressing need to grow LCY.
Also, before IAG bought bmi the plan was to move some short-haul capacity from LHR to LCY to allow for long-haul growth. Now that BA has more slots than it knows what to do with, there's less of a pressing need to grow LCY.
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Does anyone know if BACF are planning to launch a new route in the very near future,
It's just I notice they have applied for slots to operate to DUS from LCY.
The slots are to operate a 5 x weekly flight from LCY starting 01APR13 on a E70, increasing to 11 x weekly from 02SEP13 with the flight showing as nightstopping at DUS from 02SEP13.
It's just I notice they have applied for slots to operate to DUS from LCY.
The slots are to operate a 5 x weekly flight from LCY starting 01APR13 on a E70, increasing to 11 x weekly from 02SEP13 with the flight showing as nightstopping at DUS from 02SEP13.
As far as Dusseldorf goes, they've pretty much got the slots they applied for. The early morning departure ex DUS is 20 minutes earlier than that for which they had asked, but everything else has been cleared as requested. Not bad going for DUS.
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BA only have a 15% shareholding and no board membership. The Flybe E175 deliveries are spread over a number of years mainly to replace Dash 8s as leases expire plus a limited number for expansion. I also think BA would prefer more E190s owing to demand at LCY and also limited space there.
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Doubt that they have no use for the E190s. They have been scheduled on a lot of lfights from DUS and to a lesser extent from TXL for the summer on routes that do not justify a 150seater.