MANCHESTER - 5
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So another key city seemingly disappears from the network. Makes you wonder how long TLV will last with TOM before they inevitably retrench to serving only the typical Spanish Costa routes.
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Perhaps they are suffering from competition now that easyJet has started services between Liverpool and Lisbon. Also, I notice that Jet 2 has dropped the Manchester to Valencia route since Ryanair commenced services from Liverpool to Valencia. That was a rather quick retreat.
Last edited by Ametyst1; 21st Nov 2007 at 18:21.
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The TOM Lisbon flight did very well over the Summer but is suffering a bit at the minute in terms of loads. Perhaps it will disappear over Jan and Feb and return end of March? Would be very surprised to see it go altogether.
Don't think there's any danger of TLV being dropped any time soon. Every flight so far has been almost full and advance bookings are very strong.
The LS VLC flight was aimed predominantly at propery owners on the Valencia coastline, rather than for visitors to the city itself. This was obvious from the frequencies and the fact it only operated for 5 months of the year. As much of the development is south of Valencia, travellers visiting properties in that area can use Alicante as an alternative and have been doing so, as it is often cheaper albeit a little further.
I think there is a market for Valencia city breaks but I would say no more than 3 x weekly, 2 x weekly in the winter months, as the city itself doesn't have the same tourist appeal as somewhere like Barcelona.
Don't think there's any danger of TLV being dropped any time soon. Every flight so far has been almost full and advance bookings are very strong.
The LS VLC flight was aimed predominantly at propery owners on the Valencia coastline, rather than for visitors to the city itself. This was obvious from the frequencies and the fact it only operated for 5 months of the year. As much of the development is south of Valencia, travellers visiting properties in that area can use Alicante as an alternative and have been doing so, as it is often cheaper albeit a little further.
I think there is a market for Valencia city breaks but I would say no more than 3 x weekly, 2 x weekly in the winter months, as the city itself doesn't have the same tourist appeal as somewhere like Barcelona.
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Lets hope LIS does return for next summer, it would be a shame to have scheduled services to the capitals of Spain, Germany and Portugal all wiped off MAN's network in the space of 12 months!
Not good for the City of Manchester's image / reputation as the "capital of the north".......
Not good for the City of Manchester's image / reputation as the "capital of the north".......
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Time for reflection?
Okay, okay. There has been lots of gossip and guessing and complaining and .......
Firstly to the state of the terminals. I am not a frequent traveller nowadays, however I do visit the land side of the terminals every couple of weeks. The other evening I walked over to T1 & T3 to see exactly what I could find at fault and here are my observations:
Toilets - in general fairly clean conditions. Taps had been left running and bottles of pop/cartons left on the floors. Sodden tissues in one of the basins in the WC at the end of the T1 checkin. Now the fact that taps are left running is down to the lazyness of passengers/visitors. The tissues are agin a fault of the same people who are too lazy to even think of depositing them into one of the toilets. The problem with bottles will never go away until we get the return of bins - and even that will probably never solve the problem as our sense of values does not include using a litter bin (how often do we see people just dropping rubbish when there is a depository within just a few feet of them). Finally all of the toilets have signs asking us to report problems to the airport - do we do that? No we just complain on forums like Pprune.
Signs for a new domestic security area in T were in evidence, but I have seen nothing mentioned on here. Has it opened yet? If it has, will this replace the current main entry to airside. By making this change, how will it effect the space available where the old security check area. Will this solve the problem mentioned by an earlier poster with regard to the opening of Boots on the airside?
Escalators, travellators - shock horry, all working!
Now to the question of our dear friends at Jet2 and easyJet.
Jet2 do appear to have 'had their time'. I hear rumors that they will be downsizing to 6 aircraft and is it pure co-incidence that the airport's incentive of low fees only applies for 3 years on most new routes. Having started with a bigger bang than bmibaby, it is a shame that Jet2 appear to be in retreat.
easyJet is an interesting story. Despite the rather silly post by 'easy manager' in which he says that easyJet will sell their slots, and as already started these slots are not for sale in anycase (check the ACL website for more details), there has to be some truth in the story of their pending arrival. I have heard a lot of the stories that have been doing the rounds, and have seen certain paperwork which would appear to confirm these facts. This is the second time that easyJet have apparantly applied for slots at Manchester, and they will have done their homework into whether they have an interest before making such applications. Whether they take up any opportunity will be of great interest. Whilst I would prefer to see the continuation of a majority of services by scheduled 'IATA' carriers, I am also a realist and accept that times have changed over the years.
Now let's see what does happen in the coming months.
Scottie Dog
Firstly to the state of the terminals. I am not a frequent traveller nowadays, however I do visit the land side of the terminals every couple of weeks. The other evening I walked over to T1 & T3 to see exactly what I could find at fault and here are my observations:
Toilets - in general fairly clean conditions. Taps had been left running and bottles of pop/cartons left on the floors. Sodden tissues in one of the basins in the WC at the end of the T1 checkin. Now the fact that taps are left running is down to the lazyness of passengers/visitors. The tissues are agin a fault of the same people who are too lazy to even think of depositing them into one of the toilets. The problem with bottles will never go away until we get the return of bins - and even that will probably never solve the problem as our sense of values does not include using a litter bin (how often do we see people just dropping rubbish when there is a depository within just a few feet of them). Finally all of the toilets have signs asking us to report problems to the airport - do we do that? No we just complain on forums like Pprune.
Signs for a new domestic security area in T were in evidence, but I have seen nothing mentioned on here. Has it opened yet? If it has, will this replace the current main entry to airside. By making this change, how will it effect the space available where the old security check area. Will this solve the problem mentioned by an earlier poster with regard to the opening of Boots on the airside?
Escalators, travellators - shock horry, all working!
Now to the question of our dear friends at Jet2 and easyJet.
Jet2 do appear to have 'had their time'. I hear rumors that they will be downsizing to 6 aircraft and is it pure co-incidence that the airport's incentive of low fees only applies for 3 years on most new routes. Having started with a bigger bang than bmibaby, it is a shame that Jet2 appear to be in retreat.
easyJet is an interesting story. Despite the rather silly post by 'easy manager' in which he says that easyJet will sell their slots, and as already started these slots are not for sale in anycase (check the ACL website for more details), there has to be some truth in the story of their pending arrival. I have heard a lot of the stories that have been doing the rounds, and have seen certain paperwork which would appear to confirm these facts. This is the second time that easyJet have apparantly applied for slots at Manchester, and they will have done their homework into whether they have an interest before making such applications. Whether they take up any opportunity will be of great interest. Whilst I would prefer to see the continuation of a majority of services by scheduled 'IATA' carriers, I am also a realist and accept that times have changed over the years.
Now let's see what does happen in the coming months.
Scottie Dog
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Well written that man, nice to see a constuctive post which I hope puts the verbal battering between the two sides re the terminals to an end ( but I very much doubt it )
Perhaps somebody can enlighten me on what is happening re taxiway work
as all sounds a tad confusing to a non pilot and from what i hear some of the non based crews too
Ian
Perhaps somebody can enlighten me on what is happening re taxiway work
as all sounds a tad confusing to a non pilot and from what i hear some of the non based crews too
Ian
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Roadworks on the apron
I am sure that Chiglet or Lord Toofourright wll set me right if I go wrong with my information...
There are two sets of work taking place. One to replace worn out concrete and the other to upgrade the taxiway lighting.
1/ Taxiway Alpha closed at A6 (outside the fire station) until 15th January to replace concrete.
2/ Taxiway Delta closed at D5 (the old East Link) between 2215-0600 until 1st December.
3/ Taxiway Delta closed 2300-0530 between stands 211-212 until 23 November due WIP
4/ Taxiway JF closed abeam stand 43 until 26th November
5/ Starter strip for 23L closed until 25th November.
I am sure that more work will soon be started elsewhere - including the planned new stands around the end of Terminal 3 (where Males Garage is).
Scottie Dog
There are two sets of work taking place. One to replace worn out concrete and the other to upgrade the taxiway lighting.
1/ Taxiway Alpha closed at A6 (outside the fire station) until 15th January to replace concrete.
2/ Taxiway Delta closed at D5 (the old East Link) between 2215-0600 until 1st December.
3/ Taxiway Delta closed 2300-0530 between stands 211-212 until 23 November due WIP
4/ Taxiway JF closed abeam stand 43 until 26th November
5/ Starter strip for 23L closed until 25th November.
I am sure that more work will soon be started elsewhere - including the planned new stands around the end of Terminal 3 (where Males Garage is).
Scottie Dog
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Going Loco...That would be a valid argument if as soon as EZY / RYR open up a new destination from LPL the traditional MAN carriers concede the route almost instanly. Result is the same as EZY coming to MAN themselves - no competition ! A future base at MAN isn't a threat to choice - EZY/RYR are doing very well at it already !!!
Last edited by eggc; 21st Nov 2007 at 21:33. Reason: Add who to..
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I "had" to fly to Gatwick [and back] for a course.....Three colleagues were also travelling with me, all booked by the same "agency"....there was a difference of £70 for the same trip[s]...
Scotty, perhaps you can shed some light on this matter....
OOI, the transit through T3 was fairly swift, albeit crowded [08.30 dep] and painless. The arrival, [again] was painless...apart from the walk from Gate 48, but we only had to wait 2-3 mins for our bags...
However, the comparison between the two [Major] Airports, IMMHO, is not very favourable to Manch I am afraid to say......
watp,iktch
Scotty, perhaps you can shed some light on this matter....
OOI, the transit through T3 was fairly swift, albeit crowded [08.30 dep] and painless. The arrival, [again] was painless...apart from the walk from Gate 48, but we only had to wait 2-3 mins for our bags...
However, the comparison between the two [Major] Airports, IMMHO, is not very favourable to Manch I am afraid to say......
watp,iktch
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Going loco - the choice MAN's current loco's are offering (particularly on the city destinations) seems to be shrinking all the time. So to be honest although a possible Easyjet base wouldn't be welcomed by all, there would hopefully be some important destinations re-appearing on MAN's departure boards.
I take you're point on fares though, if they do indeed set up at MAN and see some of the other loco's off certain routes, you could well see higher prices on route where just they end up operating.
I take you're point on fares though, if they do indeed set up at MAN and see some of the other loco's off certain routes, you could well see higher prices on route where just they end up operating.
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Jet2's Expansion
Actually, most of you are completely wroing about LS at MAN. They are merely reorganising their route netork so that LBA becomes their short haul base and MAN is sunshine routes and long haul. I understand that the 737s that are leaving are to be replaced with more 757s and also 767s. We will in fact be seeing quite a boom from LS over the next year or so at MAN, but not to Europe but to much further afield across the Atlantic.
Very exciting times ahead for LS at MAN.
Very exciting times ahead for LS at MAN.
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Centralwings
Just checked the timetable for the Centralwings Poznan flights which seem to use the Krakow based aircraft as follows.
0735 Arr Krakow dep 0815 Poznan arr 1740 Poznan dep 1815 Krakow and is shown as running 4 days a week Mondays, Wednesdays, Fridays and Sundays. Nothing showing for the Warsaw flights as yet.
Andrew
0735 Arr Krakow dep 0815 Poznan arr 1740 Poznan dep 1815 Krakow and is shown as running 4 days a week Mondays, Wednesdays, Fridays and Sundays. Nothing showing for the Warsaw flights as yet.
Andrew
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Vuelo...
Would LS concentrating on sunshine routes and long haul really be a good thing though? The sunshine routes are saturated enough and if they really were to offer a long haul operation, I would imagine that they'd consider Orlando, New York etc. Routes that are already well served from Manchester. Jet2 only seem interested in going for tried and tested destinations. What MAN needs is a carrier that has the bottle to serve destinations that aren't bucket and space or obvious money makers. Anyone can make the likes of AGP successful (unless you're GB that is!) but we need someone to come in and make the likes of MAD, LIS etc a success too. Jet2 have proven they cannot do that and I'm still sceptical about their very existance in Manchester in the long run.
On a slightly different matter, anyone know what's happening with bmibaby next summer? They have released AGP, ALC & PMI but no news on anything else. Will there be any new routes, dropped routes or will they just stick to what they've got?
On a slightly different matter, anyone know what's happening with bmibaby next summer? They have released AGP, ALC & PMI but no news on anything else. Will there be any new routes, dropped routes or will they just stick to what they've got?
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Jet2 have proven they cannot do that and I'm still sceptical about their very existance in Manchester in the long run
Totally agree FlyZB...... my crystal ball says they won't hang around at MAN for the long run if we all turn orange at MAN from next summer. If we don't turn orange I think they'll just chug along with the run of the mill stuff and that will be it.
Totally agree FlyZB...... my crystal ball says they won't hang around at MAN for the long run if we all turn orange at MAN from next summer. If we don't turn orange I think they'll just chug along with the run of the mill stuff and that will be it.
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MAN - The Passenger Experience
With regard to the Thomsonfly MAN-LIS route, I again had the opportunity to avail myself of this service just last week - shortly before the (Winter?) suspension. I have to say that I was pleasantly surprised by the load factors which appeared to be around the 70% mark in each direction. On my previous trip back in June, the European B737-200 then used was virtually full both ways. Obviously, I have no access to data concerning yield/profitability of this service, but the visible signs were encouraging. It was notable that a very high proportion of the passengers were Portuguese, probably over 50% of the total. Thomsonfly appears to have achieved high awareness of the service in Lisbon itself and deserves recognition for this. Indeed, Thomsonfly has even sponsored a traditional Lisbon tram which trundles round the city in sky blue Thomson colours with a large slogan promoting the Manchester flights. (I hurriedly leapt aboard this tram hoping to ready my camera for a photo of it at the turning circle, but it turned into the depot instead and I was politely requested to disembark! Just my luck...). In view of the apparent popularity of MAN-LIS this Summer, it would be deeply disappointing if the current suspension reflected anything more than the Mid-Winter low season, but we will have to wait and see. Certainly, TUI Group is reported to be cutting back on Citybreak style destinations.
With regard to the transits of Manchester Airport itself - I do at least one return trip per month through the airport - MAN (sadly) did not cover itself with glory on this occasion. I would dearly love to report otherwise, but MAN does seem to have forgotten the art of doing the simple things well - the ones which could be put right with minimal expense. On the outward journey, the Skylink travelators were switched off. This is BAD BAD BAD! I'm aware of all the current fashionable nause regarding saving energy during "quiet" hours. The check-in halls are NOT quiet after 0500; take a look! Tired passengers with luggage do NOT think "Oh great, MA is saving energy again" when they find the lifts and travelators switched off. They DO think "This place is a ****ing Shambles!" For goodness sake MAplc, fit motion sensors to the escalators and travelators like the German airports do and make your energy savings without inconveniencing the customers.
I like my comments to be balanced, so I am pleased to report the positives too. Check-in was polite and smooth, T2 security efficient - very quick indeed - and conducted with a smile (even when my shoes set off the metal detector). T2 was generally clean and the toilets were fine. The only negative comment airside concerns the 'Iris Recognition' registration facility again being closed during its published hours of availabilty. (I had cause to regret that one later!).
The handling of the inbound flight to MAN T2 was my worst experience of the airport this year - again due to easily avoidable carelessness. The Thomsonfly B737-300 parked remote on 86L (alongside the Staff West Car Park) where it was met by two transfer buses. So far so good. Unfortunately, when the two buses arrived at the bus drop-off point neither driver was able to open the coded door to the terminal building. "The handlers say they're sending someone down to let you in," we were told. And yes, TWENTY MINUTES later someone appeared to open the door and let in around 100 very fed-up customers. What will they be telling their friends about the Manchester Airport experience when they return home? Will they insist "Book me from Manchester" next time? How much does it cost to give the bus drivers the code to open the door to arrivals? How many millions of investment does that take? And to add to the beauty of this situation, the aircraft which landed immediately behind us was PIA709 operated by a Boeing 777-300. By the time we entered the building it had fully disembarked some 400+ passengers which made for an immense queue at immigration. I left the airport more than one hour after landing - and that was with hand-luggage only.
I am the first to point out that this type of experience is not the norm; I have enjoyed many flawless transits through MAN this year (and afew poor ones). The security queues have improved noticably. But my point is that the best assistance MA can give to support new services such as Thomsonfly's MAN-LIS is to ensure that passengers enjoy the airport experience and are keen to choose MAN again for their journeys. Why not decamp to a no-frills shed somewhere if they remember MAN for 'broken' lifts/travelators/escalators and being locked out of the terminal building for 20 minutes whilst standing in a cold overcrowded bus? However much MA invests in retail outlets and catering facilities, passengers take it for granted that quality is a pre-requisite for these. What they do remember are the uncleared tables, inactive escalators, queues and locked doors which could be rectified for PEANUTS!
We have just watched 'no-frills' specialist Liverpool win a major travel industry award for 'Best UK Airport'. Let this be a wake-up call. If MAN can't compete with LPL on landing fees and turnaround times, it should at least surpass them on quality of experience inside the terminal buildings. Our inactive travelators, dirty tables and locked doors suggest we are falling sadly short of achieving even that any time soon. And why do large areas of the airport have NO SEATING for the poor elderly people who have to walk even further just to enter the terminal building following recent security scares? Where do they sit to rest a while? Are you surprised that many of these are choosing smaller terminals at rival airports for this reason alone? What price afew benches - how many millions?
MAN is facing a likely drop in passenger throughput in 2008. That is not an ideal situation, but it is economic reality. But the respite also presents opportunity - not to cut staff and service further - but to perfect an airport experience which passengers will want to choose for ease of travel and for enhanced comfort (as well as to spend their money!). Travel from MAN often costs more than a flight from LPL to the same destination; we at the airport must give the customers reason to choose the MAN experience at that premium rather than the LPL one. I passionately believe that MAN must offer added value to customers in order to facilitate that choice. Airlines such as Monarch and Thomsonfly from MAN offer much better service than Ryanair and Easyjet from LPL once passengers have boarded; MAplc needs to match that level of service before the passengers board. Give the customers a reason to think beyond price alone.
This stuff should not be difficult. Let's sort it out!
Apologies for the length of the posting! SHED.
With regard to the transits of Manchester Airport itself - I do at least one return trip per month through the airport - MAN (sadly) did not cover itself with glory on this occasion. I would dearly love to report otherwise, but MAN does seem to have forgotten the art of doing the simple things well - the ones which could be put right with minimal expense. On the outward journey, the Skylink travelators were switched off. This is BAD BAD BAD! I'm aware of all the current fashionable nause regarding saving energy during "quiet" hours. The check-in halls are NOT quiet after 0500; take a look! Tired passengers with luggage do NOT think "Oh great, MA is saving energy again" when they find the lifts and travelators switched off. They DO think "This place is a ****ing Shambles!" For goodness sake MAplc, fit motion sensors to the escalators and travelators like the German airports do and make your energy savings without inconveniencing the customers.
I like my comments to be balanced, so I am pleased to report the positives too. Check-in was polite and smooth, T2 security efficient - very quick indeed - and conducted with a smile (even when my shoes set off the metal detector). T2 was generally clean and the toilets were fine. The only negative comment airside concerns the 'Iris Recognition' registration facility again being closed during its published hours of availabilty. (I had cause to regret that one later!).
The handling of the inbound flight to MAN T2 was my worst experience of the airport this year - again due to easily avoidable carelessness. The Thomsonfly B737-300 parked remote on 86L (alongside the Staff West Car Park) where it was met by two transfer buses. So far so good. Unfortunately, when the two buses arrived at the bus drop-off point neither driver was able to open the coded door to the terminal building. "The handlers say they're sending someone down to let you in," we were told. And yes, TWENTY MINUTES later someone appeared to open the door and let in around 100 very fed-up customers. What will they be telling their friends about the Manchester Airport experience when they return home? Will they insist "Book me from Manchester" next time? How much does it cost to give the bus drivers the code to open the door to arrivals? How many millions of investment does that take? And to add to the beauty of this situation, the aircraft which landed immediately behind us was PIA709 operated by a Boeing 777-300. By the time we entered the building it had fully disembarked some 400+ passengers which made for an immense queue at immigration. I left the airport more than one hour after landing - and that was with hand-luggage only.
I am the first to point out that this type of experience is not the norm; I have enjoyed many flawless transits through MAN this year (and afew poor ones). The security queues have improved noticably. But my point is that the best assistance MA can give to support new services such as Thomsonfly's MAN-LIS is to ensure that passengers enjoy the airport experience and are keen to choose MAN again for their journeys. Why not decamp to a no-frills shed somewhere if they remember MAN for 'broken' lifts/travelators/escalators and being locked out of the terminal building for 20 minutes whilst standing in a cold overcrowded bus? However much MA invests in retail outlets and catering facilities, passengers take it for granted that quality is a pre-requisite for these. What they do remember are the uncleared tables, inactive escalators, queues and locked doors which could be rectified for PEANUTS!
We have just watched 'no-frills' specialist Liverpool win a major travel industry award for 'Best UK Airport'. Let this be a wake-up call. If MAN can't compete with LPL on landing fees and turnaround times, it should at least surpass them on quality of experience inside the terminal buildings. Our inactive travelators, dirty tables and locked doors suggest we are falling sadly short of achieving even that any time soon. And why do large areas of the airport have NO SEATING for the poor elderly people who have to walk even further just to enter the terminal building following recent security scares? Where do they sit to rest a while? Are you surprised that many of these are choosing smaller terminals at rival airports for this reason alone? What price afew benches - how many millions?
MAN is facing a likely drop in passenger throughput in 2008. That is not an ideal situation, but it is economic reality. But the respite also presents opportunity - not to cut staff and service further - but to perfect an airport experience which passengers will want to choose for ease of travel and for enhanced comfort (as well as to spend their money!). Travel from MAN often costs more than a flight from LPL to the same destination; we at the airport must give the customers reason to choose the MAN experience at that premium rather than the LPL one. I passionately believe that MAN must offer added value to customers in order to facilitate that choice. Airlines such as Monarch and Thomsonfly from MAN offer much better service than Ryanair and Easyjet from LPL once passengers have boarded; MAplc needs to match that level of service before the passengers board. Give the customers a reason to think beyond price alone.
This stuff should not be difficult. Let's sort it out!
Apologies for the length of the posting! SHED.