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I wish I was at Manchester and flying from T3 yesterday. I'd have quite fancied making my own personal attempt at getting through the linked arms protestors blocking security.
Much as I am a supporter of green issues, the protests and media hype against aviation are very much out of kilter with the impact that the industry has against other forms of transport, let alone general man made damage. How about next time they try linking arms on the M62 at rush hour and see who stops?
Much as I am a supporter of green issues, the protests and media hype against aviation are very much out of kilter with the impact that the industry has against other forms of transport, let alone general man made damage. How about next time they try linking arms on the M62 at rush hour and see who stops?
Join Date: Jul 2007
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A little gem from UK Airport News/MEN
06.10.07
Bosses at Manchester Airport have banned car park attendants from giving motorists a push start if they break down, the Manchester Evening News reports. The policy has been condemned by motoring groups, with one critic saying the airport had 'thrown common sense out of the window'.
Officials at the airport - which claims to provide 'outstanding customer service' - introduced the rule to prevent staff accidentally damaging vehicles when they are trying to help owners. But a spokesman for the Association of British Drivers said: 'It would be a matter of normal humanity to decide to help someone who is experiencing difficulty at their airport car parks. The employer should just keep out of it and allow people to make their own personal judgement.'
Sean Corker, who campaigns for motorists' rights in the north west, said: 'You always come across the odd jobsworth but you don't often get people ordered by their bosses not to help customers. Their customer service obviously does not extend to those who drive to the airport.'
The newspaper reports that holidaymaker Paul Ross fell foul of the ruling when he returned to the Terminal 2 car park after a trip to Menorca and found that his battery had gone flat. He approached staff at the car park for help but they said they couldn't assist him on the orders of their superiors.
Mr Ross, who had paid about £60 to leave his car at the airport while he was abroad, had no cash on him to pay for a tow-truck. He said: ' All that was needed was a bit of common courtesy. I just wanted to get home. It was an awful situation at the end of a very good holiday.'
'The experience we have had nullified the relaxation we had on holiday. I for one will not be recommending use of their car parking, rather the reverse.' He was so appalled by the attitude of staff that he complained to airport parking bosses. Mr. Ross was offered an apology plus the return of his parking fee.
A spokeswoman for Manchester Airport said it employed the AA to provide free assistance to motorists stranded in its car parks from 06:00 to 18:00. She said staff used to be able to help customers whose cars had broken down outside these hours, but this had been stopped after complaints that a car had been damaged.
06.10.07
Bosses at Manchester Airport have banned car park attendants from giving motorists a push start if they break down, the Manchester Evening News reports. The policy has been condemned by motoring groups, with one critic saying the airport had 'thrown common sense out of the window'.
Officials at the airport - which claims to provide 'outstanding customer service' - introduced the rule to prevent staff accidentally damaging vehicles when they are trying to help owners. But a spokesman for the Association of British Drivers said: 'It would be a matter of normal humanity to decide to help someone who is experiencing difficulty at their airport car parks. The employer should just keep out of it and allow people to make their own personal judgement.'
Sean Corker, who campaigns for motorists' rights in the north west, said: 'You always come across the odd jobsworth but you don't often get people ordered by their bosses not to help customers. Their customer service obviously does not extend to those who drive to the airport.'
The newspaper reports that holidaymaker Paul Ross fell foul of the ruling when he returned to the Terminal 2 car park after a trip to Menorca and found that his battery had gone flat. He approached staff at the car park for help but they said they couldn't assist him on the orders of their superiors.
Mr Ross, who had paid about £60 to leave his car at the airport while he was abroad, had no cash on him to pay for a tow-truck. He said: ' All that was needed was a bit of common courtesy. I just wanted to get home. It was an awful situation at the end of a very good holiday.'
'The experience we have had nullified the relaxation we had on holiday. I for one will not be recommending use of their car parking, rather the reverse.' He was so appalled by the attitude of staff that he complained to airport parking bosses. Mr. Ross was offered an apology plus the return of his parking fee.
A spokeswoman for Manchester Airport said it employed the AA to provide free assistance to motorists stranded in its car parks from 06:00 to 18:00. She said staff used to be able to help customers whose cars had broken down outside these hours, but this had been stopped after complaints that a car had been damaged.
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I wish I was at Manchester and flying from T3 yesterday. I'd have quite fancied making my own personal attempt at getting through the linked arms protestors blocking security.
Much as I am a supporter of green issues, the protests and media hype against aviation are very much out of kilter with the impact that the industry has against other forms of transport, let alone general man made damage. How about next time they try linking arms on the M62 at rush hour and see who stops?
Looks like Flybe think much the same:
Disruption at Manchester airport
08 October 2007
Flybe, the biggest operator from Manchester Airport, this morning expressed outrage at the disruptive actions of a small number of protesters at Manchester Airport.
Mike Rutter, Flybe’s Chief Commercial Officer said: “Domestic aviation is crucial to the UK economy. The selfish actions of a small group of protesters who represent an insignificantly small section of society do themselves and the UK regions a huge disservice. We deplore the fact that these individuals have endangered the security of travellers. Contrast the actions of 7 with the 30,000 who will travel with Flybe in and out of Manchester airport this week and its plain where public support rests.”
“Flybe is proud to serve the UK regions and with our $2bn investment in some of the most environmentally sensitive aircraft in the world are driving down emissions. The views of a London-centric class of professional lobbyists are a million miles away from the economic reality of the UK regions”.
Flybe staff are liaising closely with Manchester Airport to minimise disruption and are asking all passengers to check in as normal.
Much as I am a supporter of green issues, the protests and media hype against aviation are very much out of kilter with the impact that the industry has against other forms of transport, let alone general man made damage. How about next time they try linking arms on the M62 at rush hour and see who stops?
Looks like Flybe think much the same:
Disruption at Manchester airport
08 October 2007
Flybe, the biggest operator from Manchester Airport, this morning expressed outrage at the disruptive actions of a small number of protesters at Manchester Airport.
Mike Rutter, Flybe’s Chief Commercial Officer said: “Domestic aviation is crucial to the UK economy. The selfish actions of a small group of protesters who represent an insignificantly small section of society do themselves and the UK regions a huge disservice. We deplore the fact that these individuals have endangered the security of travellers. Contrast the actions of 7 with the 30,000 who will travel with Flybe in and out of Manchester airport this week and its plain where public support rests.”
“Flybe is proud to serve the UK regions and with our $2bn investment in some of the most environmentally sensitive aircraft in the world are driving down emissions. The views of a London-centric class of professional lobbyists are a million miles away from the economic reality of the UK regions”.
Flybe staff are liaising closely with Manchester Airport to minimise disruption and are asking all passengers to check in as normal.
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Are TOM axing their scheduled routes at MAN that are not use by Thomson Holidays (like Lisbon, Tel Aviv). This is hapenning at DSA (PRG+JER), LTN (JER+PRG) and CWL (JER)
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TOM
Good question
At the beginnig of September when announcing additional summer routes they said more were to come.
Since then nothing further has been said but most routes are now on the Timetable. LIS TLV and SZG being some exceptions.
Similarly I am not sue what LS are doing. few routes announced for MAN next summer and on other threads it is suggested that they will concentrate expansion at LBA. Earlier in the Year they were talking about basing two or three more aircraft at MAN. In fact they are moving aircraft from MAN to LBA.
ZB
Their flights are on sale but no announcement was made of summer flights from MAN
WW nothing yet
C0 now seem to have sorted themselves out. Timings have changed therfore no more destinations
XL
Announced daily flights for summer to ALC and AGP. Now down to 1 per week'
One can continue. Lots of announcements or hints but nothing appears or it does and then is dropped usually quietly.
Viscount
At the beginnig of September when announcing additional summer routes they said more were to come.
Since then nothing further has been said but most routes are now on the Timetable. LIS TLV and SZG being some exceptions.
Similarly I am not sue what LS are doing. few routes announced for MAN next summer and on other threads it is suggested that they will concentrate expansion at LBA. Earlier in the Year they were talking about basing two or three more aircraft at MAN. In fact they are moving aircraft from MAN to LBA.
ZB
Their flights are on sale but no announcement was made of summer flights from MAN
WW nothing yet
C0 now seem to have sorted themselves out. Timings have changed therfore no more destinations
XL
Announced daily flights for summer to ALC and AGP. Now down to 1 per week'
One can continue. Lots of announcements or hints but nothing appears or it does and then is dropped usually quietly.
Viscount
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I think we can safely say for the time being at least that all we'll have from Jet2 are the usual sunshine destinations with lots of capacity during the summer and a very scaled down timetable for the winter.
Its a shame IF Thomson are jacking in Tel Aviv, Salzburg and Lisbon before they have really been given chance to grow, but then again what more can we expect from the loco's based on previous form???
I'd be surprised to see any significant growth from ZB either. I think they've found their little niche carrying those who want flights to the sun with a little more in the way of service. They may tinker with schedules and try the odd new destination now and again but that would be about it I think.
As for WW, I wouldn't hold your breath for any growth at MAN either, they are much more interested in BHX
Anyone heard anything more info on the possible NW and Air AsiaX???
Its a shame IF Thomson are jacking in Tel Aviv, Salzburg and Lisbon before they have really been given chance to grow, but then again what more can we expect from the loco's based on previous form???
I'd be surprised to see any significant growth from ZB either. I think they've found their little niche carrying those who want flights to the sun with a little more in the way of service. They may tinker with schedules and try the odd new destination now and again but that would be about it I think.
As for WW, I wouldn't hold your breath for any growth at MAN either, they are much more interested in BHX
Anyone heard anything more info on the possible NW and Air AsiaX???
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I think we will find now is that expansion from MAN (if there is any!) will be mainly from destinations outside of Europe where locos don't tred.
Obviously, NW and AirAsiaX should be coming soon
...we'll see. There will be other carriers but who? I can see CX, TG and increases from EK etc. but not many others. There are other carriers such as:
AC (only interested in summer route to Toronto)
JAL (not likely!)
CA/CI/CZ (can't see it soon)
QF (never rule them out! EK and EY are doing very well with the SYD connections! but so are QF on the LHR connection!
)
BA (
)
UA (surely can't be far away now - NW making a five some! LAX?!)
AI (they are currently looking at an EU base - and new destinations! look out PIA - new boys in town!
)
Would hope to see AI, NW D7 and by next summer, but the others are major doubts for the next two years!
Obviously, NW and AirAsiaX should be coming soon
...we'll see. There will be other carriers but who? I can see CX, TG and increases from EK etc. but not many others. There are other carriers such as:AC (only interested in summer route to Toronto)
JAL (not likely!)
CA/CI/CZ (can't see it soon)
QF (never rule them out! EK and EY are doing very well with the SYD connections! but so are QF on the LHR connection!
)BA (
)UA (surely can't be far away now - NW making a five some! LAX?!)
AI (they are currently looking at an EU base - and new destinations! look out PIA - new boys in town!
)Would hope to see AI, NW D7 and by next summer, but the others are major doubts for the next two years!
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I shouldn't worry too much just yet. It's very early to be getting concerned about next summer. Whilst many airlines have their initial S08 flights on sale, I think there will be some schedule tinkering and more announcements over the coming months. Here's what I think:
LS - There will be a decrease in frequencies but most of last summers routes will return and should go on sale over the next few months. TFS, ACE & LPA will operate year round and an additional 757 will be based to cover this. BCN will be back with better timings. SXF & TLS will also return.
WW - Still to release their summer flights. Would expect Bordeux & Perpignan to return along with Newquay. AGP, ALC, PMI will return to at least daily flights.
ZB - Can't see anything else being announced from them this summer. Although there is a grey area over XRY flights and a possible return to GIB. I expect new winter 2008 routes from them being announced and an increase in Summer 2009 schedules as they're acquiring additional A321's.
TOM - Will continue to operate scheduled services from MAN without a doubt. In fact, with routes dropped from other airports I would expect their 737's to come to MAN to operate additional scheduled routes as they are performing very well.
LS - There will be a decrease in frequencies but most of last summers routes will return and should go on sale over the next few months. TFS, ACE & LPA will operate year round and an additional 757 will be based to cover this. BCN will be back with better timings. SXF & TLS will also return.
WW - Still to release their summer flights. Would expect Bordeux & Perpignan to return along with Newquay. AGP, ALC, PMI will return to at least daily flights.
ZB - Can't see anything else being announced from them this summer. Although there is a grey area over XRY flights and a possible return to GIB. I expect new winter 2008 routes from them being announced and an increase in Summer 2009 schedules as they're acquiring additional A321's.
TOM - Will continue to operate scheduled services from MAN without a doubt. In fact, with routes dropped from other airports I would expect their 737's to come to MAN to operate additional scheduled routes as they are performing very well.
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AS per post 725 = CA from March 2009 (but I doubt if they'll be operating 7 flights a week!).
Of the others....
QF = Jetstar = 2009/2010. The number of passengers going MAN-LHR-BKK/SIN-Australia was only around one sixth of the total market going MAN-Australia.
The problem that MAN has got is the perceived lack of premium payers - there is a market for a wide range of services, but some airlines (naming no names but they used to have a terminal at MAN partially named after their initials) would prefer all regional passengers to route via LHR rather than establish themselves away from fortress LHR....purely because of the inconvenience of having to have 3 to 5 aircraft in an "unconventional" configuration (i.e. 2 class only, like the majority of the successful long-haul ex-MAN) and the unwillingness to show the positive effects of having an alliance whereby they would be able to feed the hub(s) of their partner airlines.
Of the others....
QF = Jetstar = 2009/2010. The number of passengers going MAN-LHR-BKK/SIN-Australia was only around one sixth of the total market going MAN-Australia.
The problem that MAN has got is the perceived lack of premium payers - there is a market for a wide range of services, but some airlines (naming no names but they used to have a terminal at MAN partially named after their initials) would prefer all regional passengers to route via LHR rather than establish themselves away from fortress LHR....purely because of the inconvenience of having to have 3 to 5 aircraft in an "unconventional" configuration (i.e. 2 class only, like the majority of the successful long-haul ex-MAN) and the unwillingness to show the positive effects of having an alliance whereby they would be able to feed the hub(s) of their partner airlines.
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Its a shame IF Thomson are jacking in Tel Aviv, Salzburg and Lisbon before they have really been given chance to grow, but then again what more can we expect from the loco's based on previous form???
Stop talking out of your ar*e. TOM have no plans to drop these routes, they are just sorting out slots. TLV is a licence to print money.
Stop talking out of your ar*e. TOM have no plans to drop these routes, they are just sorting out slots. TLV is a licence to print money.
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Ringwayman - SQ are not ready to apply for slots as they simply don't have enough aircraft at the moment to find any for the additional 2 or 3 a week SQ in MAN have requested. They are hoping to have a late flight out on Friday, Saturday and/or Sunday. Late Friday would be great news for me personally. The problem is other stations that get the 772ER (AMS & CPH for a start) are also requesting more flights and the A380 delays have really caused havoc with SQ for the last 12 months as they had arranged sales of the 744's. So we are 'on the list' as they say.
The demand is certainly there, the loads this year have been excellent especially up front where I have been waitlisted for a while numerous times this year and that's as a PPS. Granted the loss of SQ345/6 twice a week will have contributed to the increase on the other 5 flights, but the 744 via ZRH only tended to have about 100-120 ex-MAN as most naturally preferred the nonstop flight.
The demand is certainly there, the loads this year have been excellent especially up front where I have been waitlisted for a while numerous times this year and that's as a PPS. Granted the loss of SQ345/6 twice a week will have contributed to the increase on the other 5 flights, but the 744 via ZRH only tended to have about 100-120 ex-MAN as most naturally preferred the nonstop flight.
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Ringwayman - aren't the successful 2-class long-haul operators you talk of all carring about 75-85% transfer traffic. I don't understand the logic which takes this stat as proof that it is in BA's best interests to reconfigure their aircraft and pump money into a small scale point to point network. An economy/leisure market to a myriad of points around the globe fits the spoke-hub model and this is why the European, Asian and US carriers all feed their own hubs from MAN rather than making MAN a hub itself.
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Vuelo
I'm sorry you think I'm talking out of my ar*e, I didn't realize TOM were simply fine tuning their schedules for TLV, LIS and SZG and I do (of course!!!) hope for the airports sake that this is definitely the case.
I still stand by my point though that the loco's with bases at MAN have a patchy record of starting flights to, what one would assume in European aviation terms, are key European cities and actually keeping them in their schedules for long enough to develop. Here's a few examples I can think of -
LS - EDI, LGW, SXF, TLS, PRG, BCN, AMS, BGY and WAW despite all being announced amid much fanfare have either been dropped already, are not operating in winter and uncertain to return next summer, are not bookable past early in the new year or were never started in the first place
WW - CDG and BCN quietly disappeared a few seasons ago. Are BOD and PGF returning????
ZB - MAD, NAP and GIB were tried and again quietly dropped. Ok GIB may have been due to disagreements with the airport there but it still dropped nonetheless
BE - never even bothered touching MAD, TXL, LYS and VIE from BACON, ok BMI jumped onto LYS but that was it
Surely you would think some of the above cities are also a license to print money from MAN, especially with no BACON around?
I still stand by my point though that the loco's with bases at MAN have a patchy record of starting flights to, what one would assume in European aviation terms, are key European cities and actually keeping them in their schedules for long enough to develop. Here's a few examples I can think of -
LS - EDI, LGW, SXF, TLS, PRG, BCN, AMS, BGY and WAW despite all being announced amid much fanfare have either been dropped already, are not operating in winter and uncertain to return next summer, are not bookable past early in the new year or were never started in the first place
WW - CDG and BCN quietly disappeared a few seasons ago. Are BOD and PGF returning????
ZB - MAD, NAP and GIB were tried and again quietly dropped. Ok GIB may have been due to disagreements with the airport there but it still dropped nonetheless
BE - never even bothered touching MAD, TXL, LYS and VIE from BACON, ok BMI jumped onto LYS but that was it
Surely you would think some of the above cities are also a license to print money from MAN, especially with no BACON around?
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I know we are looking at ZB, LS, WW, IB etc. to operate the MAD route, but what about BMI?!
The service suits a twice daily with a small aircraft (E145) and would fit perfectly into the system!
Obviously we all want to see IB A320s! but BMI could give it a go!
The service suits a twice daily with a small aircraft (E145) and would fit perfectly into the system!
Obviously we all want to see IB A320s!
but BMI could give it a go!
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It would be good if they had a go..... if they can with LYS then why not MAD?!
Must say MUFC_Fan, I share your thoughts on IB though, even an Air Nostrum CRJ to start with maybe...... anything more been heard about that particular rumour recently???
Must say MUFC_Fan, I share your thoughts on IB though, even an Air Nostrum CRJ to start with maybe...... anything more been heard about that particular rumour recently???
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There are alot of routes that would work for IB from MAD to the UK - EDI, BRS, GLA, MAN, NCL, BHX, BFS etc. but they just aren't prepared like KLM, LH and AF who have major long haul destinations and are only 1 to 1.5 hours from the UK.
Another problem with IB is that most passengers on a UK route are UK based, wherever it may be, whoever it may be with, especially to one of the world cities. Getting the IB name known in the North West for just 2 CRJ flights a day - would it be worth it with the advertisement etc.? Obviously Iberia is a HUGE name on the aviation market and so would be easier than expected.
A twice daily A320 service would be pushing it but a daily is desperately needed. Yes, EZY and FR provide a good service from LPL but that extra touch is needed and also the connections available from MAD to South America with IB are second to none! Plus...a BA codeshare would help the loads!
Bring on IB - twice daily A320 - A319 at least!
Anyway, lets hope come March 2008, we will see Madrid back on the departure boards (hopefully from terminal 3!)
Another problem with IB is that most passengers on a UK route are UK based, wherever it may be, whoever it may be with, especially to one of the world cities. Getting the IB name known in the North West for just 2 CRJ flights a day - would it be worth it with the advertisement etc.? Obviously Iberia is a HUGE name on the aviation market and so would be easier than expected.
A twice daily A320 service would be pushing it but a daily is desperately needed. Yes, EZY and FR provide a good service from LPL but that extra touch is needed and also the connections available from MAD to South America with IB are second to none! Plus...a BA codeshare would help the loads!
Bring on IB - twice daily A320 - A319 at least!
Anyway, lets hope come March 2008, we will see Madrid back on the departure boards (hopefully from terminal 3!)