MANCHESTER - 5
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Openskies at MAN?
Wicked Willie might as well have "I am a liar" tattooed on his forehead if that were to happen.
Openskies recruits pilots to fly its 757s
Unions say Openskies is a Trojan project to replace BA drivers
Willie says no
Openskies then replaces BA at MAN with BA drivers being replaced
Unions say "Told you!" and promptly brand BA and its boss as liars.
Obviously whoever posted this at a.net was another "in the know" example alongside the "in the know" fifteen year olds with thirty years experience who predicted that Boeing had the KC-767 deal in the bag. Openskies at MAN would take the current industrial unrest to a new level by handing the unions the argument on a plate.
Wicked Willie might as well have "I am a liar" tattooed on his forehead if that were to happen.
Openskies recruits pilots to fly its 757s
Unions say Openskies is a Trojan project to replace BA drivers
Willie says no
Openskies then replaces BA at MAN with BA drivers being replaced
Unions say "Told you!" and promptly brand BA and its boss as liars.
Obviously whoever posted this at a.net was another "in the know" example alongside the "in the know" fifteen year olds with thirty years experience who predicted that Boeing had the KC-767 deal in the bag. Openskies at MAN would take the current industrial unrest to a new level by handing the unions the argument on a plate.
Obviously whoever posted this at a.net was another "in the know" example alongside the "in the know" fifteen year olds with thirty years experience
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Manchester staff were told by the person that made the announcement to them that OpenSkies would replace the lost flight at some point. It was pretty ambiguous and I can't imagine it ever coming to fruition.
As a side note MAN-JFK hasn't been taken out of the schedules yet, however LGW-JFK has been added...
As a side note MAN-JFK hasn't been taken out of the schedules yet, however LGW-JFK has been added...
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Hovis
What planet are you on, there are no ba crew in man. Only the crew on a hated back to back thats not a back to back that operates via man and shuttle crew on a night stop. O and if it was half empty due to crew that means a heathrow newark was the same, half empty.
It makes sense. Since the 777 hull loss at LHR a aircraft had to come from somewhere to aid growth and manc was the route thats been chopped.
MUFC_FAN. You IMHO need to realise manchester is a regional airport, not a national airport and will never in the forseable future harbour any growth from national carriers. SQ, BA, BD, CA, Qf etc. The Yield is not there...
It makes sense. Since the 777 hull loss at LHR a aircraft had to come from somewhere to aid growth and manc was the route thats been chopped.
MUFC_FAN. You IMHO need to realise manchester is a regional airport, not a national airport and will never in the forseable future harbour any growth from national carriers. SQ, BA, BD, CA, Qf etc. The Yield is not there...
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Scrapping MAN- JFK just does not seem to make any sense at all, heard by a few different sources that this a profitable route. Can well understand that BA may well need the B767 capacity at LHR at least in the short term till it's 4 new B777,s start to arrive next year. Surprised it has not ordered a replacement for G-YMMM especially as the insurance is to be paid in full.
Replacing a BA operation with Openskies would not seem likely at this moment in time as this is intended to fly from mainland Europe and as I understand it BA is still in negotiations with it's unions.
A possible solution may be to move two B757,s to MAN and operate the route twice daily as a BA operation.
Replacing a BA operation with Openskies would not seem likely at this moment in time as this is intended to fly from mainland Europe and as I understand it BA is still in negotiations with it's unions.
A possible solution may be to move two B757,s to MAN and operate the route twice daily as a BA operation.
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The MAN-JFK was the *ONE* route that jarred with the business model as it didn't feed Heathrow or serve London. The loss of G-YMMM made this quite likely as BA are short of aircraft even before the crash. I don't see BMI rushing in there as the route already has Delta and Continental running to New York as well.
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Subtle use of words on the press release - "British Airways is to suspend its daily flight from Manchester to New York JFK".
Suspend from some gallows or just postpone?
Suspend from some gallows or just postpone?
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: South of MAN, North of BHX, and well clear of Stoke ;-)
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Whitehatter, have you been in the sun a bit much? 
The 76' goes back down south to be redeployed, hence there is no net loss of routes for mainline.
Can't see anyone will have grounds for the argument you make.
I too had heard the Open SKies rumour yesterday; does my 22 years in the job class me therefore as a spotty 15 year old know-it-all too?
Jeez, the attitude of some know-it-alls who really don't.
The 76' goes back down south to be redeployed, hence there is no net loss of routes for mainline.
Can't see anyone will have grounds for the argument you make.
I too had heard the Open SKies rumour yesterday; does my 22 years in the job class me therefore as a spotty 15 year old know-it-all too?
Jeez, the attitude of some know-it-alls who really don't.
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Why is everyone so suprised??
The writing has been on the wall, ever since BA closed the cabin crew based and outsourced ground handling to Aviance. Have operated the route several times as Cabin Crew, and loads vary from full to less than half, with very erractic loads in J. The service received from Aviance and other external service partners was hit and miss to be honest.
DL, CO, AA, US have been more successful at MAN as they can offer connections to their entire North American Networks and beyond with the advantage of avoiding LHR. BA was only able to offer one destination---JFK. If blame is to be apportioned, a great deal must go to anti-immunity trust regulators who time and time again have denied BA/AA the right to code share/interline on the scale the LH/UA, KL/NW and DL/AF are allowed and do.
Sad to see the route go. Come crunch time, LGW will be next for rationalisation. If the credit crisis hits the city hard LCY will see the wrath of Willie's chopper too.
Frightning really, as Willie is very liberal with his chopper (wonder more or less so than Nick Clegg??
)...
p.s. LGW-JFK is scheduled to be operated on the 4 class 777, config 14F/48J/40W/124M. Should the yield not materialise (sooner), no doubt it
will be moved on the 3 class beast 40J/24W/215M...
DL, CO, AA, US have been more successful at MAN as they can offer connections to their entire North American Networks and beyond with the advantage of avoiding LHR. BA was only able to offer one destination---JFK. If blame is to be apportioned, a great deal must go to anti-immunity trust regulators who time and time again have denied BA/AA the right to code share/interline on the scale the LH/UA, KL/NW and DL/AF are allowed and do.
Sad to see the route go. Come crunch time, LGW will be next for rationalisation. If the credit crisis hits the city hard LCY will see the wrath of Willie's chopper too.
Frightning really, as Willie is very liberal with his chopper (wonder more or less so than Nick Clegg??
)...p.s. LGW-JFK is scheduled to be operated on the 4 class 777, config 14F/48J/40W/124M. Should the yield not materialise (sooner), no doubt it
will be moved on the 3 class beast 40J/24W/215M...
Last edited by Muizenberg; 18th Apr 2008 at 09:23. Reason: spelling
Planet Railgun?????
What planet are you on, there are no ba crew in man. Only the crew on a hated back to back thats not a back to back that operates via man and shuttle crew on a night stop.
However there is, funnily enough, more to an airline than 'crew'.
Specifically 'Engineers' of whom I happen to be one, of about 30-odd still left at MAN. One who at the moment is very worried about his job since this (unsuprising) announcement.
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The posts above say the route is profitable; a BA spokesperson quoted in the Manchester Evening News says not - someone's telling porkies!!
Wonder what they tried to turn it round?
BA says it is stopping the daily service to JFK from November for `commercial reasons'. A spokesman said: "It's not a decision we have taken lightly. This has been a loss-making route for some time.
"We have tried everything we can to turn it around, but, unfortunately, this has not been possible."
"We have tried everything we can to turn it around, but, unfortunately, this has not been possible."
Join Date: Oct 2007
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This from BA
British Airways is boosting services from London to New York JFK by starting
daily flights from Gatwick on Monday October 27, 2008.
The new flights mean that the airline will fly 62 times each week from the
capital to JFK as the Gatwick flights will operate in addition to 55 weekly
flights from Heathrow.
Lynne Embleton, British Airways’ general manager network planning, said:
“The new Gatwick service will give our customers even more choice when flying
between London and New York. Not only do we already have an extensive schedule
from Heathrow to both JFK and Newark but next year we will launch business-only
flights from London City.”
The new flights from Gatwick will operate on a four class Boeing 777, with
First, Club World, World Traveller Plus and World Traveller cabins, that will be
moved from Heathrow.
British Airways will also start new shorthaul routes from Gatwick this October
with daily services to Oporto and Valencia.
Second daily services from Gatwick to Alicante and Turin will also be added from
the end of October.
Flights to Warsaw will move from Gatwick to Heathrow in October.
British Airways is to suspend its daily flight from Manchester to New York JFK
in October and move the Boeing 767 aircraft that operates the service to
Heathrow.
daily flights from Gatwick on Monday October 27, 2008.
The new flights mean that the airline will fly 62 times each week from the
capital to JFK as the Gatwick flights will operate in addition to 55 weekly
flights from Heathrow.
Lynne Embleton, British Airways’ general manager network planning, said:
“The new Gatwick service will give our customers even more choice when flying
between London and New York. Not only do we already have an extensive schedule
from Heathrow to both JFK and Newark but next year we will launch business-only
flights from London City.”
The new flights from Gatwick will operate on a four class Boeing 777, with
First, Club World, World Traveller Plus and World Traveller cabins, that will be
moved from Heathrow.
British Airways will also start new shorthaul routes from Gatwick this October
with daily services to Oporto and Valencia.
Second daily services from Gatwick to Alicante and Turin will also be added from
the end of October.
Flights to Warsaw will move from Gatwick to Heathrow in October.
British Airways is to suspend its daily flight from Manchester to New York JFK
in October and move the Boeing 767 aircraft that operates the service to
Heathrow.
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So BA dump the route!
Virgin or BMI may consider it and if they did the product on board is so much better than BA anyway.
The void to JFK will not be there for long if at all.
Look at the CAA figures it tells you a lot of punters want the service.
Virgin or BMI may consider it and if they did the product on board is so much better than BA anyway.
The void to JFK will not be there for long if at all.
Look at the CAA figures it tells you a lot of punters want the service.
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Loads don't equal profit!
Unfortunately loads don't equal profit. IF the high yield revenue is not there, a full flight can operate at a loss. If an airline is constantly bumping passengers up a cabin to clear an oversale down the back this does not equate to profits.
The fact is there is not enough people prepared to pay a business class fare/premium economy fare ex-MAN (whether it's paid for personally or by the company) to warrant BA serving the market. As I previously said BA were always at a disadvantage as the US carriers have 100's of destinations to offer...BA had 1 NEW YORK ex MAN.
p.s. the BA product compares very favourably to BD or VS these days. BD charge for drinks down the back, and VS are stripping their service of every unique feature that once let themstand out from the pack...
The fact is there is not enough people prepared to pay a business class fare/premium economy fare ex-MAN (whether it's paid for personally or by the company) to warrant BA serving the market. As I previously said BA were always at a disadvantage as the US carriers have 100's of destinations to offer...BA had 1 NEW YORK ex MAN.
p.s. the BA product compares very favourably to BD or VS these days. BD charge for drinks down the back, and VS are stripping their service of every unique feature that once let themstand out from the pack...
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Must say, I liked the BA service more than BD and on par with the VS service when up front.
I don't think we will see BD into JFK as I think UA mainly operate into EWR? Correct me if I am wrong. Anyway, have looked at fares for MAN-NYC from airlines on both sides of the Atlantic and BD come out trumps with MAN-ORD-EWR.
Would expect CO to react more than any carrier as VS and BD have still not got enough a/c (787/330 problems) and DL are busy with NW. CO are introducing more 739ERs onto their network which is freeing up more a/c such as 752 which could mean we could see MAN-EWR at three daily from next season?
Anyway, I wouldn't excpect any news soon.
I don't think we will see BD into JFK as I think UA mainly operate into EWR? Correct me if I am wrong. Anyway, have looked at fares for MAN-NYC from airlines on both sides of the Atlantic and BD come out trumps with MAN-ORD-EWR.
Would expect CO to react more than any carrier as VS and BD have still not got enough a/c (787/330 problems) and DL are busy with NW. CO are introducing more 739ERs onto their network which is freeing up more a/c such as 752 which could mean we could see MAN-EWR at three daily from next season?
Anyway, I wouldn't excpect any news soon.
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I realise that the CAA figures dont tell you whether the route is making a profit but it does show there are plenty of people wanting to fly to NYC. There are of course plenty that will be connecting on to other destinations within the USA.
As far as the product is concerned Upper Class is way better than Club and BMI Business (new) looks very good although not tried it. Thats where the money comes from and i am sure either of those two airlines could attract the top payers if they decided it was commercially viable to start NYC from Manchester.
As far as the product is concerned Upper Class is way better than Club and BMI Business (new) looks very good although not tried it. Thats where the money comes from and i am sure either of those two airlines could attract the top payers if they decided it was commercially viable to start NYC from Manchester.