MANCHESTER - 5
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Manchester
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LPL got the MON Calgary and the JN Las Palmas, but they returned to MAN at 8ish.
Anyone know anything about a possible new service this summer from Lagos? Apparently it was rumpured last summer, but looks likely to start this summer instead.
Anyone know anything about a possible new service this summer from Lagos? Apparently it was rumpured last summer, but looks likely to start this summer instead.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
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Hey, yea the FCA SFB landed at 0530 at EMA followed by the TCX POP which didn't get airbourne again till 1300 when she returned to MAN empty. When I passed through the terminal at 1045 the TCX pax were still waiting for their bags!! I believe Menzies handle them there, anybody know why they took so long?
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Manchester-5
Flyboy543
Menzies did handle the TCX A330 diversion but unfortunately their Hi-Lo broke down as soon as they put it on the aircraft.They had to unload the bags by hand and then when the Hi-lo was repaired they had to transfer some of the freight from the front to the back. That took a long time and meant the a/c was at E.M.A. for about 7 hours.
Menzies did handle the TCX A330 diversion but unfortunately their Hi-Lo broke down as soon as they put it on the aircraft.They had to unload the bags by hand and then when the Hi-lo was repaired they had to transfer some of the freight from the front to the back. That took a long time and meant the a/c was at E.M.A. for about 7 hours.
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Snow
Making comments about "the place falls to pieces" and "the Uk grinds to a halt" in respect of snow affecting UK airports is disappointing. Snow or slush contaminated runways are a major hazard to aircraft and in the UK, like today, we predominantly experience wet snow which, if it accumulautes on the runway surface, MUST be completely cleared to ensure good braking action along the runway full length. Whilst the diversions may have been an inconvenience, safety comes first.
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Tigermike
Does anybody know where QR041 went?
The Qatar went to LGW I believe
Vuelo
Anyone know anything about a possible new service this summer from Lagos? Apparently it was rumpured last summer, but looks likely to start this summer instead.
I heard a rumour last year involving Bellview.... Could be them ???
bigMAN
Does anybody know where QR041 went?
The Qatar went to LGW I believe
Vuelo
Anyone know anything about a possible new service this summer from Lagos? Apparently it was rumpured last summer, but looks likely to start this summer instead.
I heard a rumour last year involving Bellview.... Could be them ???
bigMAN
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Snow
Hear Hear Musket 90
There was at least 2 inches of wet snow and from the METAR reports looks like it was snowing for a couple of hours. By contrast, Ken Dodd Intl down the road only appears to have only had a rain and snow mix.
Suzeman
There was at least 2 inches of wet snow and from the METAR reports looks like it was snowing for a couple of hours. By contrast, Ken Dodd Intl down the road only appears to have only had a rain and snow mix.
Suzeman
Join Date: Jul 2003
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WOW 2 inches !
and still the huge fleet of sweepers couldnt keep one runway clear, you didnt previously work for British Rail did you ?
I have watched operations continue in far worse conditions at other major airports, why do we have such a huge problem in this country with what was by North American standards a snow shower ?
and still the huge fleet of sweepers couldnt keep one runway clear, you didnt previously work for British Rail did you ?
I have watched operations continue in far worse conditions at other major airports, why do we have such a huge problem in this country with what was by North American standards a snow shower ?
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Well Mr 777 no need to get your knickers in a twist.
If you read the post properly you will see that I was only stating the facts of what I could see out of my window and looking at the METARS to see what happened. And applauding the fact that Musket 90 was stating the safety requirements to explain what airports must do in these situations.
I wasn't trying to justify whether or not they had done a good job - I have no idea as I wasn't out on the runway. You appear to know a lot about it - were you out on the runway clearing snow this morning? Pray tell us what they are doing wrong?
And just to clear the matter up, I don't work at the airport and have never worked for British Rail.
Suzeman
If you read the post properly you will see that I was only stating the facts of what I could see out of my window and looking at the METARS to see what happened. And applauding the fact that Musket 90 was stating the safety requirements to explain what airports must do in these situations.
I wasn't trying to justify whether or not they had done a good job - I have no idea as I wasn't out on the runway. You appear to know a lot about it - were you out on the runway clearing snow this morning? Pray tell us what they are doing wrong?
And just to clear the matter up, I don't work at the airport and have never worked for British Rail.
Suzeman
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Snow
If North American airports receive a lot of snow, they will have to have the infrastructure to deal with it in order to operate. If MAN gets snow on just one or two days a year, it is probably cheaper to have a basic snow clearing team and risk a few diversions than invest in a set of advanced clearing equipment which will hardly ever be used.
Join Date: Sep 2002
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MAN777 & All,
I recognize that it is fashionable to mock UK airports for 'grinding to a halt' during conditions of snow, and I accept also that airports abroad which receive far more snow often give the impression of coping better. But do not be deceived. Musket90's posting is absolutely on the money.
Most snow in the UK falls at temperatures very close to zero; this means that it is "wet snow" which rapidly turns to slush. This is the worst scenario for aircraft operations as braking action is severely compromised and that means safety is a key concern. Furthermore, slush can often turn to ice later. Slush can also be flicked up onto aircraft control surfaces and freeze onto the cold metal there. This can be highly dangerous and has been the cause of accidents in the past.
Airports abroad which appear to cope well with snow often receive their falls with the temperature way below freezing. This dry powder snow is a different matter altogether; it does not melt (in conditions which remain well below freezing) and when compacted can actually provide a good braking surface. Hence, under these conditions alot less effort is required to return a runway to safe operations. But be assured that even these airports, when they receive wet snow at either end of their Winter season, suffer exactly the same issues which UK airports face routinely. Wet snow and slush accumulations must be cleared from active runways - period. Safety allows for no other course of action.
I too hate to see aircraft forced to divert away from MAN. I too become frustrated by the fact that snow clearance is a time consuming process. But I would rather see this every time than witness an aircraft skid off a runway or gather dangerous ice contamination on its control surfaces.
Educate yourselves a little. Read up on the properties of wet snow and dry snow. Once you appreciate the difference you will begin to understand why a Canadian airport keeps operating at -20C and MAN seizes up at -1C. And once you recognize this you will be able to explain to people around you (fellow passengers) that airport personnel are putting passenger safety first (at considerable expense) and not just contriving to delay your holiday. As a passenger would you really want things to be handled any differently?
And by the way, a comment on that eternal joke about railways and leaf mulch in Autumn. Greasy leaves are a very serious safety concern for rail authorities, and they know well that many of their customers will snigger and mock their efforts to maintain safe braking conditions for trains. When I read the annual headlines mocking "leaves on the line" delays, I do laugh. I laugh at the crass ignorance of the journalist concerned! And I applaud the rail authorities for running the gauntlet of public abuse as they prioritize safety on behalf of their ungrateful (or maybe just ignorant) customers. If necessary, I will even politely ask a whingeing fellow passenger if they would really like their safety to be compromised.
I hope that this would be the reaction of most posters on here also. If we will not speak up to defend those busting a gut to ensure the safety of the travelling public, then operators may become tempted to take the path of least resistance - until an incident occurs. We must never allow that to happen.
All the best.
SHED.
I recognize that it is fashionable to mock UK airports for 'grinding to a halt' during conditions of snow, and I accept also that airports abroad which receive far more snow often give the impression of coping better. But do not be deceived. Musket90's posting is absolutely on the money.
Most snow in the UK falls at temperatures very close to zero; this means that it is "wet snow" which rapidly turns to slush. This is the worst scenario for aircraft operations as braking action is severely compromised and that means safety is a key concern. Furthermore, slush can often turn to ice later. Slush can also be flicked up onto aircraft control surfaces and freeze onto the cold metal there. This can be highly dangerous and has been the cause of accidents in the past.
Airports abroad which appear to cope well with snow often receive their falls with the temperature way below freezing. This dry powder snow is a different matter altogether; it does not melt (in conditions which remain well below freezing) and when compacted can actually provide a good braking surface. Hence, under these conditions alot less effort is required to return a runway to safe operations. But be assured that even these airports, when they receive wet snow at either end of their Winter season, suffer exactly the same issues which UK airports face routinely. Wet snow and slush accumulations must be cleared from active runways - period. Safety allows for no other course of action.
I too hate to see aircraft forced to divert away from MAN. I too become frustrated by the fact that snow clearance is a time consuming process. But I would rather see this every time than witness an aircraft skid off a runway or gather dangerous ice contamination on its control surfaces.
Educate yourselves a little. Read up on the properties of wet snow and dry snow. Once you appreciate the difference you will begin to understand why a Canadian airport keeps operating at -20C and MAN seizes up at -1C. And once you recognize this you will be able to explain to people around you (fellow passengers) that airport personnel are putting passenger safety first (at considerable expense) and not just contriving to delay your holiday. As a passenger would you really want things to be handled any differently?
And by the way, a comment on that eternal joke about railways and leaf mulch in Autumn. Greasy leaves are a very serious safety concern for rail authorities, and they know well that many of their customers will snigger and mock their efforts to maintain safe braking conditions for trains. When I read the annual headlines mocking "leaves on the line" delays, I do laugh. I laugh at the crass ignorance of the journalist concerned! And I applaud the rail authorities for running the gauntlet of public abuse as they prioritize safety on behalf of their ungrateful (or maybe just ignorant) customers. If necessary, I will even politely ask a whingeing fellow passenger if they would really like their safety to be compromised.
I hope that this would be the reaction of most posters on here also. If we will not speak up to defend those busting a gut to ensure the safety of the travelling public, then operators may become tempted to take the path of least resistance - until an incident occurs. We must never allow that to happen.
All the best.
SHED.
Join Date: Sep 2002
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El Al
And its me again - on a completely different topic!
'Travel Trade Gazette' dated 21st March carries a small report which states that El Al has plans to return to Manchester. The piece quotes Mr Len Judes who is President of the Israel-UK Chamber of Commerce. He says that El Al wishes to tap in to the conference and incentive market in the Manchester area, and hence plans to reintroduce MAN flights.
My reading of this is that Mr Judes does not appear to be a representative of the airline itself, so make of that what you will. But at least it may offer some insight into the way they are thinking. Perhaps Thomsonfly's success is concentrating some minds in Tel Aviv?
Cheers, SHED.
'Travel Trade Gazette' dated 21st March carries a small report which states that El Al has plans to return to Manchester. The piece quotes Mr Len Judes who is President of the Israel-UK Chamber of Commerce. He says that El Al wishes to tap in to the conference and incentive market in the Manchester area, and hence plans to reintroduce MAN flights.
My reading of this is that Mr Judes does not appear to be a representative of the airline itself, so make of that what you will. But at least it may offer some insight into the way they are thinking. Perhaps Thomsonfly's success is concentrating some minds in Tel Aviv?
Cheers, SHED.
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Link JB
Firstly ,thanks Shed for the detailed explanation on the snow clearance. Pity none of us spotted 777s tongue in cheek attitude in his rant - sorry post.
And now for something completely different. What is the current state of play with Link JB (once known as the 06 Fast Turn Off)? I see it was closed last week and is NOTAMed to be closed to the end of May. I heard a story that it may be permanently withdrawn due to structural issues?
If this is so, I'm sure it will have an impact on runway ops when on single runway 05L as aircraft will take more time to vacate as there is no RET anymore.
Suzeman (with tongue firmly out of cheek
)
And now for something completely different. What is the current state of play with Link JB (once known as the 06 Fast Turn Off)? I see it was closed last week and is NOTAMed to be closed to the end of May. I heard a story that it may be permanently withdrawn due to structural issues?
If this is so, I'm sure it will have an impact on runway ops when on single runway 05L as aircraft will take more time to vacate as there is no RET anymore.
Suzeman (with tongue firmly out of cheek
)
If I remember correctly wasn't it the investigation until the Munich air crash in '58 which highlighted the particular dangers of slush as opposed to standing water or dry snow?
