DURHAM TEES VALLEY AIRPORT - 4

[DTVAirport]

N707ZS, I heard this last month and meant to post it, the version I heard is that they've been donated £2m for ramp improvements. Don't know who is putting the money up though.

I was also told that if they do it the airport CANNOT be closed, but unfortunately, I can't remember the reason why it cannot be closed.

Edit: I think it's related to the new parallel taxiway, since under the current plans Cobham are set to lose part or all of their current ramp, so I think it's to practically move the entire apron?

[thebobster]

Sounds good for improvements also the parallel taxiway will be a great advantage to all who take photos at the airport due to its proximity to the station bridge

[skyman771]

Personally, even though accepting the many advantages of a parallel taxiway, then I can not see as to how this is the most practical item on the agenda. While clearly it should be on the budget for some future year, given all the competition from NCL, LBA etc then surely the funds would be better put towards runway extension, this would certainly be a USP & surely more likely to attract traffic than the taxi way. I have a long memory and recall how long Luton existed without one, & a comparison of traffic volumes at that time to those at MME would be somewhere short of ridiculous !

[thebobster]

im not sure if theres space for a runway extension

[mmeteesside]

Although there is room for a runway extension, is there any need for one? It's not like we get flights every day using the whole runway. Admittedly some of the recent flights to Calgary have gone via other places (Some Arkefly flights when full have gone via Keflavik. Altho having said that the nearly empty ones have gone direct).

As for the parallel taxiway, I think its due to the fact Bravo needs rebuilding, but without that we could not handle 737's as the Alpha taxiway is too small/soft and Charlie/Delta can just handle them. Therefore before you can rebuild Bravo you'll need another taxiway to handle the larger jets (eg Onur's A321's) so I guess thats the thought behind the parallel taxiway?!

[DTVAirport]

I can't see there being any development whatsoever in the short-medium term to be honest, least of all an unneccessary runway extension (well, not unneccessary, but low priority).

Having said that both Charlie and Delta taxiways are well past their lifespans and are in urgent need of either replacing or resurfacing and strengthening, with Bravo having approximately six months left before it is too.

[mmeteesside]

Thats why the parallel needs doing otherwise you cannot take proper aircraft with Alpha too small, Charlie/Delta need replacing etc. Bravo is the main taxiway and that needs doing, therefore you need something to replace it!

[paarmo]

Seems a chicken and egg situation this. You can't land bigger aircraft unless you can get it to the terminal and yet if you spend your money on the taxiway then you can't extend the runway to allow fully laden bigger aircraft to take off. Either way if you are spending 2 million pounds on the airport infrastructure ( I think you can build 4 miles of motorway for that money ) surely Peel are not hoping to bail out anytime soon.

[Ops Guy]

Then all you need is some aeroplanes with people on them

[davidjohnson6]

Ops Guy - one also needs those people to want to pay money to be on those aeroplanes !

[paarmo]

I was in Middlesbrough on Monday and the travel agents were fighting the customers off. It's choice and a reduction in the ridiculous flight supplements to fly from Teesside that is needed. Why does it cost £60 more per person to fly from Teesside than it does from Gatwick. Most Locos don't even charge that with all hidden charges to Med holiday destinations.

[MUFC_fan]

Lower operating fees, larger a/c, lower costs per person etc.

They can also decide on what exactly the want to charge.

[skyman771]

MUFC_fan

Lower operating fees, larger a/c, lower costs per person etc.

They can also decide on what exactly the want to charge

.
Exactly, but then is this not what one of the functions of the management / marketing at Peel / DTV is all about? i.e. negotiating with tour operators / airlines as to the amount of their price supplements. IF the cost IS £60 per head more on a round trip with 500 less air miles & with BAA landing fees as competition the someone somewhere is clearly not doing their job!

[SWBKCB]

The link below seems to be suggesting £5m to be spent on DTVA train station?

First phase of Tees Valley Metro system ?is imminent? (From The Northern Echo)

[johnnychips]

I can't imagine the actual station buildings need £5M to make them into a tram stop (unmanned with ticket machines). At the moment something like two trains a week stop there.

What might be more interesting is that in 5-10 years time when they finally start this project (speaking from experience in Sheff and Manchester), if the economy is upturned and DTVA has a lot more flights, they could deviate from the railway that the article says most of the tramway will follow, to the terminal door.

[paarmo]

I don't know how this Government gets away with this.What they are talking about is upgrading or creating stations on the existing underused train line. It has nothing to do with Metro trams or the like.It is all hot air. The train provider will not provide trains after 10pm on most routes and before 7am because there is no demand for them. To provide more stations for the trains not to stop at is madness and a symptom of the ridiculous thinking of this pack of shysters.No matter how much you upgrade Teesside Airport station you still have the problem of a 1 1/2 mile walk along roads with no footpaths and no trains when you have to fly. The lunatics have finally joined the airport management team and have taken over the asylum.

[ReadyToGo]

My understanding is that the current rail service from Darlington to Middlesbrough is on its last legs. The rolling stock is very tired (and in many cases doesnt comply with modern safety/disability laws), the line is dated and a heavy amount of maintenence is due in the next few years.

I think a feasability study is that new trains are needed, and I would guess trams are cheaper to buy and operate than new diesels. The line already needs renovation, so all in all the "TV Metro" isn't too far fetched. The money was going to be spent anyway, and it may not cost all that much more to to create a new "Metro" than to patch up what exists. Especially as I believe there are EU grants availiable for eco-friendly transportation....

As for the airport, well at the minute its all hot air, they can say what they like and it may/may not happen. But if a "Metro" project is to go ahead, it would be stupid to ignore the airport. As Johnnychips says, by the time they sign on the dotted line, the airport may have recovered, and it would be very near sighted to improve the line and ignore it.

Finally, as a whole, the Boro-Darlington line is fairly well used. At least it has been when I have used it. Though most people use it just for the main stations at Darlington, Thornaby and Middlesbrough. The in-between stations are probably only used by commuters.

RTG!

[paarmo]

The current rolling stock on the line is ex British Rail and is nearly 50 years old. It is a disgrace but is fully safety certificated. It is owned by a private company .I believe it is Northern Rail at the moment and is passed on whenever the franchise changes hands. The track is owned by Network Rail which is effectively the Government.It is also fully certified and will continue to be so whatever type of rolling stock is used on the line. Bear in mind the line services very heavy trains to Skinningrove steel works , Boulby Potash and also several large container depots. There is no advantage to running Metro trains on the line. The rolling stock ie the Metro trains would have to be bought by whoever owns the franchise at the moment and until the trains finally die there is no chance of that. This is another Excelsis Airways and stands as much chance of getting off the ground as it does.

PS No one anywhere in the world has ever made a profit from running a railway. The running of trains is very profitable but the actual infrastructure is a nightmare which is why Network Rail is Government susidised and every other railway system in the world bar none is similarly treat.If the Givernment gave half the subsidies to airports as it does to railways we would not be having this conversation.

[airhumberside]

The current rolling stock on the line is ex British Rail and is nearly 50 years old.

Try halfing that. Im not sure if the line has Pacers or Sprinters. Pacers are about 25 years old and Sprinters 20 or so years old. They are based on older technology though (Pacers especially) but nothing like 50 years old

It is owned by a private company .I believe it is Northern Rail at the moment and is passed on whenever the franchise changes hands.

The trains are owned by a leasing company, for Northern Rail's diesel trains it will be either Angel Trains or Porterbrook

The rolling stock ie the Metro trains would have to be bought by whoever owns the franchise at the moment and until the trains finally die there is no chance of that.

The stock would most probably be bought by a leasing company, and if there was a guarentee the stock would be needed long term Im sure they would be interested in purchasing new stock

[paarmo]

I bow to your expertise on trains. They just look and smell 50 yrs old. That excepted if you were running a bullet train into Teesside Airport Station no one would use it.
No one used the trains when they were new and now there is no access to the airport from the station it is a non starter .
Mind you when it becomes new housing or an industrial estate............