BRISTOL - 3

[terrier23]

Hi MV.

The MP of whom you speak I believe is Mr John Penrose from my area, Weston. To be perfectly honest I find the guy a complete prat all he has done since being elected is open up one youth cafe and stick an upside turnip with bloody lights on in the town centre, some say it it looks like a hugh hyperdermic needle which is probably apt for weston. Not sure what his particular grievances are but weston as a whole gets very few disturbances from the airport, with most flights to high to cause a problem on the approach all I can surmise is that he is heavily funded by some local nimby who lives nearer to lulsgate bottom and is worried that the airport is going to throw out more co2 emmissions than their slection of landrovers and old beamers which probably take diesel anyway. Rant over

Anymore news on replacement of BA's routes or indeed new schedule or charters for next year.

T23

[MerchantVenturer]

terrier,

I think this is largely down to party politics. Penrose is a Conservative and another local Tory, the higher-profile Liam Fox, has also set himself publicly against the airport expanding, although he does hint he might change his mind a bit if road access was greatly improved.

Because it’s Labour’s idea to expand airports the Tory MPs instinctively seem against it, at least in this part of the world.

Of course those Tories on the local council committee cannot be so cavalier in their public pronouncements as they have a duty to strictly follow the law when it comes to arriving at decisions. I think the North Somerset Council has no overall political majority anyway although the Tories are the largest group. Could be wrong, but I don't live in that area.

Many years ago when old Labour was in power (probably the late 60s) central government put forward a suggestion that Bristol should become a local airport with Cardiff becoming the regional airport for the West and South Wales. That time the local Conservatives went into overdrive against those plans. As I said, it’s politics.

The provisional programme for summer 2007 (sched and charter) is available to download from the BRS website in .pdf form.

On the charter front Olbia doesn't appear, although Chania is back and Innsbruck re-appears after many years’ absence in summer (as opposed to winter). Agadir is also continuing through next summer but one or two destinations seem to have fewer rotations than last summer.

I realise that much can change between now and when the programme commences.

No surprises on the scheduled front but again things could still happen of course.

The airport has taken an interesting approach re the current BA flights.

For CDG, EDI and GLA it lists the easyJet flights only, but adds a note, “Additional flights will be confirmed shortly” adding that the airport website should be visited for up-to-date information when available.

For MUC, FRA, DUS, MXP, ZRH it appends a note, “Flights are expected to operate during summer 2007” adding that the airport website should be visited for up-to-date information when available. It also has the same note for the proposed sched service to Gibraltar.

Doubtless these are ‘holding’ announcements and it may be that the airport itself has no concrete information at this time.

[Standard Noise]

I take it you've all written to North Somerset council to express your support for the airport's plans?

[terrier23]

I have, although I will moving away from this area next year. I still have a lot of feelings for the place as I worked there for 3 and a half years. Ive also got friends and family here and it is easy to fly than too drive or take the train for visits

[WATABENCH]

In travel weekly this week it is mentioned that Cadogan holidays is wanting to expand in BRS, MAN and EMA. In the report on Cadogans new look management it says ;

"Cadogan is also hoping to increase its influence in parts of the UK where it has not traditionally focused on, including Bristol, Manchester and East Midlands through sister company GB Airways"

That sounds very promising for new GB routes from BRS in the near future to me, lets hope

[MerchantVenturer]

I was at the back of the airport today and saw what seemed to be the start of the dismantling of the BA hangar.

anoraknophobia,

Very sad news was reported today in that a workman employed on demolishing a hangar at BRS (presumably the one you mentioned) fell to his death on Saturday morning. My thoughts are with his loved ones.

I take it you've all written to North Somerset council to express your support for the airport's plans?

Standard Noise,

Yes I certainly have and got SBAE to pay the postage.

BRS MD Andrew Skipp revealed today that it is intended to make BRS the greenest airport in the country, citing a yet to be announced ‘carbon off-setting programme’.

Mr Skipp also alluded to the activities of SBAE when he said, “Despite the misleading and expensive advertising and marketing campaign of the airport’s opponents – who seem to want to stop any progress or development which might benefit the wider region – we have been heartened by the support our proposals have received from staff, politicians and members of the public across the region.”

He must be a regular reader of PPRuNe.

[Standard Noise]

Originally Posted by MerchantVenturer

Yes I certainly have and got SBAE to pay the postage.

He must be a regular reader of PPRuNe.

On the first point - damn, I wish I'd thought of that!
On the second - I think a few of them read it regularly.

[Standard Noise]

I see Andrew Skipp was on the lunchtime news talking about the expansion plans alongside one of the SBAE liars/fantasists/luddites (delete as appropraite), although rather than send one of their more rabid looking members, they sent a little old granny, prolly to try win over a bit of sympathy against the big nasty old airport. She was noncing on about increases in this, that and the other but missed the word from the CAA that lo cost flights have not actually increased the overall traffic levels in the UK despite claims by the tree huggers. She also, yet again, skipped over the fact that raod pollution would increase if people were forced to drive to Cardiff/Exeter/Birmingham/London etc and the flights would still take place.

Must stop now, blood is reaching boiling point. F*&%ing protestors!

[MerchantVenturer]

S N

I caught a brief glimpse of the ITV West News this evening and the SBAE had their version of a dolly bird in front of the camera.

More worrying was an interview with a N Somerset councillor who seemed to be saying that despite the protests at today's initial council meeting there was probably a public consensus for limited expansion, though not as much as the airport wants, and this might be reflected in the council's ultimate decision as to how much of the master plan to adopt for future planning guidance.

This has been my fear all along (#8 on 10 Dec in this thread). Because the airport's proposals are relatively modest they will be chopped back to something unrealistic (for the airport) to satisfy the opponents.

Why didn't the airport ask for more than it wants, or expects to get, because that would probably be chopped back to what they are asking for now.

See dear old BRS, the butt of everyone's weather jokes, has remained open all day today whilst nearby CWL and EXT have been closed all day, although the latter may have just re-opened.

Doubtless, some extra work for you and your colleagues because I see a fair number of diversions were glad to make the acquaintance of Lulsgate's Bottom.

[Standard Noise]

Yes indeed MV, I wondered why they didn't ask for more, but I can only imagine that they know what they are doing. However, if the govt has expressed a need for the expansion of regional airports, then the management could always appeal the council decision through the ODPM since they seem to hold final say when all else fails.

I was on nights last night, and we along with Exeter, were the only places open then. In fact one in the eye for Filton, everyone else's choice as Bristol's airport, it was fog bound and the mail flights had to return from whence they came. Should anyone's cards or prezzies be late, complaints should be sent to BAe at Filton for not spending dosh on proper kit, I did all I could but it was to no avail.
I saw on the BBC website, under the story about the travel chaos, that some eejit was complaining about being stuck in Bristol for 3 hours. Mon Dieu! Three whole hours! But the airport site is showing that only 3 inbounds have been canx and only two outbounds (which not surprisingly, correspond to two of the inbounds). The eejit's flight wasn't even one of them. But few of the travelling public realise that it's not the airport's fault, nor our fault at ATC that flights are diverted or canx. It is mainly down to the airlines and their refusal to either pay to equip their aircraft to fly in CATIII (zero visibility) conditions or drag their heels in making sure their crews are capable of flying in such conditions. It makes my blood boil when people blame the airport for this......and I don't even work for the airport anymore!

[WATABENCH]

Well done everybody involved with the diverts/delays on Weds, particually Servisair all departments who from what I saw handled everything brilliantly, diverts coming in for CWL/EXT/LPL and others, also dealing with all the pax coming from those airports to get on their flights, BABY/RE/TOM/FCA/EZY/KL were all amongst the airlines that needed their help, and was very appreciated beleive me. It was just like a summer saturday with the amount of flights in and out.
I fear much the same tomorrow if BRS can manage to stay above the freezing fog, sometimes it definatly pays to be the 2nd highest airport in the country, I imagine there is a lot of greatful Welsh and Devonians about this evening.
Also interestingly the runway will re-open for 2 weeks at night as of thurs, may be many more diverts coming our way in the next 24-48 hrs.
Round of applause for all at BRS

[easyJet Galley King]

Originally Posted by MerchantVenturer

I suppose it's conceivable that Flybe might still fly all or some of MUC, FRA, DUS, ZRH and MXP

I was led to believe (correct me if im inaccurate) that the only BA Connect route that was really profitable was their CDG route? Sure, they fly 5 times daily, but since the introduction of our daily service with aircraft 3 times larger, this must have seriously dented their passenger numbers.

Frankfurt, Dusseldorf and Zurich (although, perhaps a flight to Basel though?) dont really fit the easy way, but with a newly opened base at Milan Malpensa, and previous experience of Munich from Stansted, I wouldnt be surprised to see that you'd be sat on an orange A319 if you need to get to these cities.

Personally, I think Flybe would be dumb to take us on at Bristol, and would be better off doing some more services from Exeter (like introduce some more International services) or as rumoured, take on BMIBaby at Cardiff (You've got more chance of succeeding here Flybe)

[Standard Noise]

Originally Posted by WATABENCH

Well done everybody involved with the diverts/delays on Weds, particually Servisair all departments who from what I saw handled everything brilliantly..................................
Also interestingly the runway will re-open for 2 weeks at night as of thurs, may be many more diverts coming our way in the next 24-48 hrs.
Round of applause for all at BRS

Shame the same couldn't have been said of Tuesday evening before the runway closed when Servis-scare turned diversions away from Briss cos they couldn't be a**ed.

[caaardiff]

Shame the same couldn't have been said of Tuesday evening before the runway closed when Servis-scare turned diversions away from Briss cos they couldn't be a**ed.

I thought ATC decided when the runway closed? Surely the decision wouldnt be Servisair's?
Weren't they given a short extension for some flights anyway? Then one or 2 others were running quite late?

Judging by the fact they handled nearly all of CWL's flights, plus any more and their own and very efficiently from what i hear! Well Done Servisair!!

[Standard Noise]

It is down to the Airport Authority although we have a little operational leeway, but I wasn't talking about the runway closure itself, that's nowt to do with Servis-scare.
And the extension on Tuesday was granted by the Airport Authority as a favour to the airline concerned for other reasons and it was only for one flight outbound. I haven't mentioned Wednesday cos I wasn't at work. Perhaps they redeemed themselves on Weds, but I'm sure it was before 2300, doubtful it would have been later.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

I think the BRS planning application is sensible.

What happens these days is you apply to the local planning authority, there is a quick and dirty local protest and permission is denied. You then take your regionally important application to Prescott and his office grants it and the local authority have to sit and whistle.

This system operates on the implict understanding that you only ask for what you actually need and don't take the p155.

Hence BRS applying for a moderate and phased extension. It doesn't want to be the next Manchester and is focussed on being a regional airport. Busy, profitable but a regional.

I think they are clever.

Cheers

WWW

[MerchantVenturer]

Originally Posted by Bristol_Traveller

I can see that Bristol faces opposition from a group of people who (as individuals) have an unusually potent mix of being relatively affulent, environmentally aware and organised. That probably reflects the socio-demographic make up of the Greater Bristol area and the area directly around the airport. We're certainly the most eco-aware part of the UK - for both good and bad.

WWW

I accept everything you say from a factual point of view but the airport is facing a particularly well-organised group and the psyche of the wider local populace has to be taken into account.

I cannot put it better than Bristol_Traveller, an excerpt from whose recent post I reprise above.

If John Prescott overturned any council decision, whether it be non or partial acceptance of the master plan as a basis for future planning applications or individual planning applications themselves, the antis would paint it as Big Brother central government over-ruling the democratically elected local representatives.

They would then command support from a lot of ordinary local people, not themselves anti expansion per se, but furious that decisions were being taken out of local hands.

Having lived in this area for over sixty years I've seen it before, in connection with roads, supermarkets and other matters. We can be a funny lot down here.

At the end of the day the plans might be pushed through, but only perhaps after appeals or even a public enquiry or high court challenges.

This would take a lot of time, something the airport hasn't got a great deal of if it wants to adhere to its published timetable, and if the Conservatives were to win the next general election they may well go right back to the drawing boards in their plans for the future of civil aviation.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

It happens already day in day out. You take your planning appeal to the regional authority under the charge of J Prescott and in over 80% of cases the local planning refusal is overturned.

The planning officers and local councillers have been spitting blood about it for the last two years. A Terminal 5 style £14m 9 yr long enquiry is now never to be repeated. The White Paper has been issued, in it Bristol will get its expansion, the current LOCAL planning "debate" will be overuled if the decision goes the wrong way and all this will happen within two years.

Local planning control on large public infrastructure projects is dead.

But they still allow 24 months of debate, a campaign group to be formed and local councillors to wring their hands about it all and appear concerned and important. Then the permission is agreed on appeal.

That is what happens now.

Cheers

WWW

[redfield]

Standard Noise: "Servis-scare couldn't be a***ed" or words to that effect. I would suggest that you get your facts straight before you make such disparaging and badly thought-out remarks. Firstly, Servisair didn't turn away any diversions on the night to which you refer. It's not our place to turn away diversions, we have to refer to the airport COM and/or the ASU who have the authority to make such decisions. Maybe they turned them away? Mind you, I was on shift that night and I never heard about any requests for diversions. Why don't you ask to spend a day with Servisair to see what it's like for them? You might learn something. WWW Thanks for your remarks: it's been an interesting couple of days to say the least. We had another ten or so diversions overnight Wednesday / Thursday morning from CWL, including three WW, four RE, TOM, KLM and Easy Switzerland (from LGW I think). Roll on Friday!

[Standard Noise]

It was a COM who told me Servis-scare turned the flight away. I can only tell you what I was told. Mind you, if Servis-scare had their way, the Baby AMS flight would not have got down cos they refused it as well, I was the one who told the COM it would be landing. Maybe you should check your facts my friend.