IRELAND WEST AIRPORT KNOCK

[AerRyan]

I hate to burst your bubble, but I cannot imagine it being good news. A Rome route would be very unlikely due to Shannon not having one and having lower fees and T/A would be a long shot.

Although a slim amount of light is possible with someone announcing a Scottish routes, most of the west coast doesn't have a route there.

[Runway_approach]

It's unlikely to be bad news if it's a joint press conference with knock shrine - what bad news could they possibly be announcing in conjunction with the shrine? Has to be some form of pilgrimage angle to it - hardly anything from Scotland

[AerRyan]

Popes visit?
Once off pilgrimage to rome? Maybe a 747 again to do it?

[fivejuliet]

I believe the announcement is that Aer Lingus are flying a pilgrimage charter to JFK from Knock

[Kinocker]

16/01/2015 - Historic day for Knock Shrine and Ireland West Airport as Aer Lingus to operate first Transatlantic Pilgrimage Flights from New York to Ireland West Airport Knock in 2015

A bit OTT for a one off flight like - although I suppose since there's been nothing else to announce this year...

[Runway_approach]

Did you burst that bubble AerRyan!! Ya good news albeit just one flight - good to see aer lingus though going to operate it hope it can lead to something bigger in the future

[AerRyan]

Not really. Knock actually had a service once, this is just a useless charter.
Aer Lingus will never operate anything T/A from knock before cork. Maybe United, but thats it.

Good news for knock though. For anyone interested, it will operate using a Dublin based 757-200 and will operate like this DUB-JFK-NOC-JFK-DUB twice.

[ryan2000]

Does that mean there will be an outbound leg from Noc? I assumed it would position to Dublin after bringing the pilgrims to Knock.

[AerRyan]

Oops, I think your right! There is no outbound leg, it positions to DUB

[Runway_approach]

Brave words AerRyan 'never' is a very strong word! I could see them doing a seasonal service to JFK/BOS from knock in the medium term - proved in 2007 there is a market there and that was with an airline nobody had heard of - a route you would imagine with the national carrier would perform even better particularly given the huge west of Ireland diaspora in the States - never say never!!

[AerRyan]

Remember, that "market" had most of its seats filled by the Time it reached knock. You could argue that knock hads only a small market and the only economical way to fill it is through having a stop. But I don't want to aggregate you that much

Knock has a market, there is no denying that, but it needs to prove that putting a plane there is more profitable than putting the same plane in Shannon, Dublin or even Cork. Cork will always be the more profitable option, so in the medium term, unless cork gets a route, I can be almost sire knock won't see one.

[EI-BUD]

Aer Ryan,
Firstly, I suggest it is remiss of you to call this a useless charter. It is excellent PR and again firmly putting NOC firmly on the map. Ok there is no link on this route but it is worthy of PR. Reinforces for me that Knock Airport has far exceeded almost all observers predictions. Even over the last five years the airport has went from strength to strength. The numbers are impressive in terms of visitors.

In terms of your commentary about the ' market' having most of its seats filled before it reached Knock, where is the data to support this? The debate and discussion on the time said something different. Flyglobespan recognised the opportunities that existed ex the west of Ireland, sadly their demise was untimely.

EI-BUD

[EI-BUD]

Also I wouldn't rule out that when FR do eventually decide to do TA Ireland to East coast US will be logical. SNN and NOC would be logical points for FR to operate from.. Plus could be done on 737.

[AerRyan]

Aer Ryan,
Firstly, I suggest it is remiss of you to call this a useless charter. It is excellent PR and again firmly putting NOC firmly on the map. Ok there is no link on this route but it is worthy of PR. Reinforces for me that Knock Airport has far exceeded almost all observers predictions. Even over the last five years the airport has went from strength to strength. The numbers are impressive in terms of visitors.

It is a honestly useless charter, I cant see much benefit except the small few Americans it will bring through the doors of Knock.
I cannot see any airline thinking "Oh, look, an airline is operating a return service to Knock from New York in august, there must be a Major market here!" I cannot see much of a PR value here.

Aer Lingus yesterday operated a charter into Belfast-International (Who is currently suing Aer Lingus) for the Ulster match in Tolon. Why did they do it? Because the payment was good enough. No other reason. Any commercial business will operate somewhere if they are paid enough to do so. I have no doubt they are being well paid to do this Knock charter.

Sure Knock has done great on European routes, Transatlantic routes are completely different. Very few Americans like landing into the absolute middle of nowhere an hour away from any city and a while away from any notable town, with a horrible road network around. Sure its great for the locals, but I cannot see the T/A tourism worth.

Another point is that airlines want to protect their routes from Shannon and Dublin already. Even if they can make a profit at knock, would it lower their profits at dublin and shannon by an extent that its not worth the movement of an aircraft?

I hate to rain on your parade, but a service from knock is unlikely in the foreseeable future. But I would let a weekly service off the agenda.

In terms of your commentary about the ' market' having most of its seats filled before it reached Knock, where is the data to support this? The debate and discussion on the time said something different. Flyglobespan recognised the opportunities that existed ex the west of Ireland, sadly their demise was untimely.

EI-BUD

I have read figures that 67% of the Flyglopespan loads came from Liverpool/Glasgow and the others came form Knock.

Flyglopespan recognised that there was no way they could fill all the seats in Liverpool and Glasgow, but they couldn't route the network via Dublin and Shannon as JFK and BOS are already full markets there, so Knock was the next best thing. There is defiantly a market there, but is it sufficient for a non-stop service?

Also I wouldn't rule out that when FR do eventually decide to do TA Ireland to East coast US will be logical. SNN and NOC would be logical points for FR to operate from.. Plus could be done on 737.

Ryanair will never EPTOS test their 737's so you will not see a 737 service. What ever aircraft they use, it will be likely that they are too big for the Knock market and even Shannon. The only reason they would target Shannon is to get rid of the competition there.

[confused atco]

I would slightly disagree with your point of it being a "useless charter".

Its the Mick O'Leary school of "there is no such thing as bad publicly".

Expect RTE news to be invited along to cover this auspicious event.

[EI-BUD]

Aer Ryan,

My point was that this flight is a strong PR message to the travelling public. Not at all relevant to PR for the airlines, who know there is an airport there.

AerLingus flying to Belfast BFS is a useless comparison, Belfast have wide range of destinations and the similarity bring that EI operate the charters on Z commercial basis.

I have no particular interest in NOC having a US route, so no parade mate.

Thank you for the clarification on the ETOPS position with FR aircraft, good to see there is somebody on here who knows the specific plans that FR have.

It is worth nothing that FR have had a more than commercial interest operation ex NOC trying routes that most others wouldn't - but no giving up , many Euro routes have been tried and tested yet FR havent given up on NOC. Hence my assertion that if FR looked to North America, NOC and indeed SNN will be in with a sporting chance.

[EI-BUD]

With reference to passengers on NOC USA routes;
The 2 scheduled Globespan routes operated in 2007. Months
May to October inclusive; CSO stats show that 16,600 people used the NOC - BOS and JFK routes.

Globespan did operated BOS and JFK originating in LPL and GLA, half the flights did a stop at NOC the others did nonstop ex UK.

Globespan carried 33,373 in terms of pax in that same period on GLA and LPL to BOS and JFK respectively. If half the flights did NOC stop; shows that NOC punched truly above its weight in terms of share of passenger split for the routes.

Data as per CSO in ROI and CAA airport stats in the UK. Hence, the 67% sounds questionable...

[confused atco]

I am open to correction but did GLOBESPAN stop in Knock on both legs?
Going to USA and on the way back?

[EI-BUD]

Confused ATCO,
From memory; the same plane didn't do LPL-NOC-JFK-NOC-LPL, but rather;
LPL-NOC-JFK-LPL and the next flight would do
LPL-JFK-NOC-LPL

And the same rationale on the trips ex GLA...

[Una Due Tfc]

If the 737MAX has the legs and FR want to send theirs Trans Atlantic, it'll be through SNN all day long in my opinion. U.S. pre-clearance would mean they could fly to secondary airports in Massachusetts, New York, Pennsylvania etc that are not equipped with full border control, immigration etc, giving them a big cost advantage.