IRELAND WEST AIRPORT KNOCK
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Leeds, UK & Cork, Ireland
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IME price difference is not such a big deal when there is just one traveller. 12-20 is not going to make much difference, parking in one airport Vs travelling to/from that airport has a much higher weighting, as do timings. So at the end of the day there may not be much in it. When one is travelling with a family of 4, any savings will quickly mount up and become much harder to ignore. More inconvenient travel times or travel to/from the airport are harder to justify, especially in times like these.
All of that said, one airline being cheaper than another, on a given route, on a given day is not indicative of anything. As always, it pays to shop around.
All of that said, one airline being cheaper than another, on a given route, on a given day is not indicative of anything. As always, it pays to shop around.
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: ireland
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Overall my experience is that Ryanair from
Knock offer better value despite knock having
to charge the Dev fee to fund the airport etc.
Clearly the overall costs for airlines to operate
from there is lower compared to the public sector run
state airports and passengers see the benefit.
Everyone wins with knocks position , the region is getting
more and more choice with over 20 destinations
easy to use and low costs for the most part.
Also the continued pax growth speaks for itself and don't forget it's also
a big employer in the area . If the other airports had to run on the same
basis then it would ensure the other state owned
airports would have to Faust their own way instead of making the massive
losses they make
Knock offer better value despite knock having
to charge the Dev fee to fund the airport etc.
Clearly the overall costs for airlines to operate
from there is lower compared to the public sector run
state airports and passengers see the benefit.
Everyone wins with knocks position , the region is getting
more and more choice with over 20 destinations
easy to use and low costs for the most part.
Also the continued pax growth speaks for itself and don't forget it's also
a big employer in the area . If the other airports had to run on the same
basis then it would ensure the other state owned
airports would have to Faust their own way instead of making the massive
losses they make
Join Date: Jul 2011
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Airlines operating from NOC charge 24.99 in taxes and charges and the 10 at the airport. Total taxes and charges for passengers are 34.99. DUB have 34.89 in total taxes and charges. DUB will always have better yeild on routes than NOC but its cheeper to operate from NOC but airlines make more profit from DUB so why not pay more to operate there.
On the tiopic of Dev fee they have made it better know on the website by making it larger and people can see it a little better. By right it should be under the Book scheduled/charter flights section.
Your forgetting that NOC is getting money from the Gov where DAA airprots are not so if that was stopped which it will be reduced or scrapped in 2014 then NOC would have no choise to increase charges and when that happons then we will see what Ryanair do.
On the tiopic of Dev fee they have made it better know on the website by making it larger and people can see it a little better. By right it should be under the Book scheduled/charter flights section.
If the other airports had to run on the same
basis then it would ensure the other state owned
airports would have to Faust their own way instead of making the massive
losses they make
basis then it would ensure the other state owned
airports would have to Faust their own way instead of making the massive
losses they make
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: EIRE
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2012 could well be NOCs greatest year in terme of traffic. Its heard to see where new routes can come from thereafter and they will do well to hold on to what they now have. If they loose their state funding then this would cetainly dilute Ryanairs presence to the benifit of SNN where I believe there is a slight imbalance in terms of population v services at the moment. While Enda is in Power though the miracle may continue.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ireland
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is it mainly leisure or domestic/UK ?
http://www.irelandwestairport.com/ai...-final_000.pdf
45% VFR
35% Holiday
10% Work
5% Business
5% Other
Business market has never really been targeted with mostly single mid day flights to London. Would have thought 2012 was the ideal opportunity to do so given the suspension of GWY-LTN double daily services and so many westerners working in the UK.
3 busiest routes STN, LTN, LPL. 3 top holiday routes were FAO, ALC, REU in 2011 according to available CSO stats.
Ireland West Airport Knock - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Join Date: Jun 2010
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EI-EIDW Knock received minimal operational
support from government, c0.5m annually
to subvent losses.
How do you make out the DAA airports receive nothing from the
government?
Take Shannon for example with losses of 25m for
the past 3 years what's keeping it open? Subvention directly
from Dublin airport which is owned by us the taxpayer.
If Shannon was break even and didn't need all these millions each year
to cover these massive losses then maybe the DAA would return this millions to the government and us the taxpayer?
Cork is even in a worse state with massive losses so don't tell me the DAA airports get no money from the state , the reality is that they are costing the state and us the tax paters tens of millions each year .
Also have you considered the massive security costs in Shannon for the troop traffic recently estimated at almost 3.5m a year? And also the costs of ATC to keep the aiport open 24 hours a day with so few planes flying?
support from government, c0.5m annually
to subvent losses.
How do you make out the DAA airports receive nothing from the
government?
Take Shannon for example with losses of 25m for
the past 3 years what's keeping it open? Subvention directly
from Dublin airport which is owned by us the taxpayer.
If Shannon was break even and didn't need all these millions each year
to cover these massive losses then maybe the DAA would return this millions to the government and us the taxpayer?
Cork is even in a worse state with massive losses so don't tell me the DAA airports get no money from the state , the reality is that they are costing the state and us the tax paters tens of millions each year .
Also have you considered the massive security costs in Shannon for the troop traffic recently estimated at almost 3.5m a year? And also the costs of ATC to keep the aiport open 24 hours a day with so few planes flying?
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Leeds, UK & Cork, Ireland
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ORK and SNN are subsidised by the profitable operations at DUB, the DAA does not revive any monies directly from the exchequer. FYI, ORK is said to be 'operationally' profitable, whatever that means. Presumably if it weren't for the debt ORK would make money, which is a bit of a ridiculous statement.
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And also the costs of ATC to keep the aiport open 24 hours a day with so few planes flying?
DAA is a Plc company, they return 12.5% of there profits to the Gov yearly like all other business do. If NOC makes a profit in 2011 should they return the money they recived from the tax payer??
ORK and SNN are subsidised by the profitable operations at DUB, the DAA does not revive any monies directly from the exchequer. FYI, ORK is said to be 'operationally' profitable, whatever that means. Presumably if it weren't for the debt ORK would make money
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EI-EIDW
If NOC make a profit they do not receive funding under the Regional Airports Operational Expenditure (OPEX) Subvention Scheme, as was the case in 2006, 2007, 2008.
They took a revenue hit in 2009/10 like other airports which meant they required OPEX to break even. But if they could make a profit with a handful of routes in 06-08 then I'd imagine they can do so again with 25+ routes and increased throughput, especially having reduced their cost base by over 20% last year.
If NOC makes a profit in 2011 should they return the money they recived from the tax payer??
They took a revenue hit in 2009/10 like other airports which meant they required OPEX to break even. But if they could make a profit with a handful of routes in 06-08 then I'd imagine they can do so again with 25+ routes and increased throughput, especially having reduced their cost base by over 20% last year.
Last edited by sawtooth; 22nd Jan 2012 at 23:58.
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Cork is losing money primarily due to the massive investment it received in 2004/6 for the new terminal. Shanon is a basket case due to the various work practices that grew up there over the last half century. Knock is only viable due to the virtual Single Shift opening hours and due to some imaginative thinking. How can Cork justify opening 24 hours a day when there is only one Movement between Midnight and 0600? Shannon isn't much different most nights of the week.
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EI-EIDW
I don't want to perpetuate another apples vs oranges bunfight, but I don't think it's transparent to say DAA airports receive no state support.
Liam Scollan put forward a list of indirect benefits a couple of years back, the accuracy of which I can't verify, but perhaps you could illuminate us?
- ATC services and training from IAA worth over 2.5m per airport p/a
- State-guaranteed loans for capital investment c.250m p/a
- Government funding support to fight legal battles
- State bodies like Bus Ιireann supplying customers
- State tourism marketing funding
- US CBP facilities at Shannon
- Shannon development company funding
- Government pressure on airlines to introduce services (SNN-LHR/CDG)
- Commission for Aviation Regulation also imposed charges on regionals but it's remit only extends to the DAA.
Ireland West Airport - why exclude State airports from public spending cuts? - Airport News
Your forgetting that NOC is getting money from the Gov where DAA airports are not
Liam Scollan put forward a list of indirect benefits a couple of years back, the accuracy of which I can't verify, but perhaps you could illuminate us?
- ATC services and training from IAA worth over 2.5m per airport p/a
- State-guaranteed loans for capital investment c.250m p/a
- Government funding support to fight legal battles
- State bodies like Bus Ιireann supplying customers
- State tourism marketing funding
- US CBP facilities at Shannon
- Shannon development company funding
- Government pressure on airlines to introduce services (SNN-LHR/CDG)
- Commission for Aviation Regulation also imposed charges on regionals but it's remit only extends to the DAA.
Ireland West Airport - why exclude State airports from public spending cuts? - Airport News
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@EI-EIDW
T/a ATC is done by the IAA - a separate body to the DAA. They stay open for transatlantic traffic regardless of what is happening operationally at SNN. They could close and it makes no difference to t/a ATC.
You are right DAA are a plc, but they are not listed on any stock exchange, they are owned 100% by a shareholder. That shareholder is the Government, which is entitled to a dividend. Dividends are determined by profit and/or free cash. If Shannon (or indeed Cork) are consuming cash to cover losses, that reduces the cash available to pay a dividend.
T/a ATC is done by the IAA - a separate body to the DAA. They stay open for transatlantic traffic regardless of what is happening operationally at SNN. They could close and it makes no difference to t/a ATC.
You are right DAA are a plc, but they are not listed on any stock exchange, they are owned 100% by a shareholder. That shareholder is the Government, which is entitled to a dividend. Dividends are determined by profit and/or free cash. If Shannon (or indeed Cork) are consuming cash to cover losses, that reduces the cash available to pay a dividend.
EI-EIDW
Obviously spell check not working for you then !!!
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Angry Rebel-thanks for that clarification...so what you are saying is that if SHN and Cork were profitable they not be a drain on the main DAA finances and then that allow a significant divident probably equal to the millions they are losing each year to be paid back to the government and effectively us the tax payer?
So as a result of their current big losses that are being underwritten by the DAA, these monies are effectively monies that are lost to the government ? And as such these loss making airports are a major drain on public finances as a result of dividends foregone....
Clearly therefore not in some vested interest group's views to put it in these start terms..
So as a result of their current big losses that are being underwritten by the DAA, these monies are effectively monies that are lost to the government ? And as such these loss making airports are a major drain on public finances as a result of dividends foregone....
Clearly therefore not in some vested interest group's views to put it in these start terms..
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In today's Star;
MILITARY munitions were transported through Shannon Airport on almost 1,200 planes during 2011, Transport Minister Leo Varadkar has confirmed. Mr Varadkar also said "under 250,000" US troops transited through Shannon last year. The figures indicate that an average of 600 foreign troops carrying weapons passed through Shannon every day last year.
Even with all this additional business this State run airport still has 25 million
in losses over the last 3 years where would the airport be if this business went elsewhere?
MILITARY munitions were transported through Shannon Airport on almost 1,200 planes during 2011, Transport Minister Leo Varadkar has confirmed. Mr Varadkar also said "under 250,000" US troops transited through Shannon last year. The figures indicate that an average of 600 foreign troops carrying weapons passed through Shannon every day last year.
Even with all this additional business this State run airport still has 25 million
in losses over the last 3 years where would the airport be if this business went elsewhere?