MANSTON- 3
Join Date: May 2006
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With respect to EUjet, MDIS made the following statement:
"..how do you know how many aircraft were half empty and how much the seats were sold for? I have passenger figures for all flights for every day that they operated and I can assure you that you info is wrong!"
If this is true, someone made a terrible cock-up, because EUjet went bust and took the parent company with them. If MDIS is now saying that this wasn't because of a failure to get bums on seats, it must have been because they weren't charging enough for the seats the bums were sitting on. Make your mind up MDIS. Whether you like it or not, EUjet was a colossal failure.
"..how do you know how many aircraft were half empty and how much the seats were sold for? I have passenger figures for all flights for every day that they operated and I can assure you that you info is wrong!"
If this is true, someone made a terrible cock-up, because EUjet went bust and took the parent company with them. If MDIS is now saying that this wasn't because of a failure to get bums on seats, it must have been because they weren't charging enough for the seats the bums were sitting on. Make your mind up MDIS. Whether you like it or not, EUjet was a colossal failure.
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What brings this forum to life, is any thing good, said about MSE.
Cargo up for November.
I have said before I live to near to the side of the flight path of runway 28
more large jets are coming in of late, and out some are clearly loaded out.
(far lower off the runway). I see a steady growth in flights and that's a fact.
Cargo up for November.
I have said before I live to near to the side of the flight path of runway 28
more large jets are coming in of late, and out some are clearly loaded out.
(far lower off the runway). I see a steady growth in flights and that's a fact.
Join Date: Apr 2006
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"..please no stupid comments about this unless it dont happen"
Why do I have to wait until next year to comment? Can't I comment about the Esperia flights that didn't happen this year (this month, in fact)? Presumably, by the time Kent Escapes and Virginia flights fail the optimists will have cooked up some new pipe-dream to talk about. In my experience, people who want only want to talk about the future can't face the present. This is what happened with EUjet. Everyone involved kept looking forward. No-one was looking at the financial black-hole opening up beneath their feet. You keep looking forward. I'll look where I'm treading, and I reserve the right to warn others.
Interesting news about Lydd today. The contrast with Manston is noteworthy. Lydd has a properly constructed business plan; they've done a full Environmental Impact Assessment in accordance with the regulations; they've submitted a formal planning application to extend the runway and build a new terminal; they're intending to engage with a full public consultation and they have a shed-load of money behind them. When you couple this with the transport links that have gone in, it looks as if Lydd could really take-off and scupper any passenger ambitions that Manston was harbouring.
Why do I have to wait until next year to comment? Can't I comment about the Esperia flights that didn't happen this year (this month, in fact)? Presumably, by the time Kent Escapes and Virginia flights fail the optimists will have cooked up some new pipe-dream to talk about. In my experience, people who want only want to talk about the future can't face the present. This is what happened with EUjet. Everyone involved kept looking forward. No-one was looking at the financial black-hole opening up beneath their feet. You keep looking forward. I'll look where I'm treading, and I reserve the right to warn others.
Interesting news about Lydd today. The contrast with Manston is noteworthy. Lydd has a properly constructed business plan; they've done a full Environmental Impact Assessment in accordance with the regulations; they've submitted a formal planning application to extend the runway and build a new terminal; they're intending to engage with a full public consultation and they have a shed-load of money behind them. When you couple this with the transport links that have gone in, it looks as if Lydd could really take-off and scupper any passenger ambitions that Manston was harbouring.
Eujet had to many routes to start with when other LCC start with 5 or 6 plus they were in charge by planestation who have never owned an airline before Eujet never failed by passagers it failed by its owners. And at Lydd whats the Airline RSPB Airways? Manston has the area all it needs is the right airline for the right places
Also expect there to be changes as there is now a new kid on the block too
James
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One thing I have never been able to understand about the Manston thread is how an airport that offers so little can generate such passion and heat, but very little light from some who post on it.
I have been dipping in and out of the Manston thread for the last few years, the arguments and wishful posts haven't changed a bit. It is a completely circular and sterile discussion which gets nowhere.
If the airport is so commercially attractive just ask yourselves why the terminal is empty, and airlines aren't clamouring to get some of the action.
Successful companies are not run by stupid financially illiterate people, hard-nosed commercialism is what keeps them afloat, not sentiment.
If all those routes, which some of you seem to think created a golden age with EuJet, were commercially viable don't you think they would have been grabbed by other airlines as soon as EuJet went under
Still I suppose it's good to dream, after all it is Christmas!
I have been dipping in and out of the Manston thread for the last few years, the arguments and wishful posts haven't changed a bit. It is a completely circular and sterile discussion which gets nowhere.
If the airport is so commercially attractive just ask yourselves why the terminal is empty, and airlines aren't clamouring to get some of the action.
Successful companies are not run by stupid financially illiterate people, hard-nosed commercialism is what keeps them afloat, not sentiment.
If all those routes, which some of you seem to think created a golden age with EuJet, were commercially viable don't you think they would have been grabbed by other airlines as soon as EuJet went under
Still I suppose it's good to dream, after all it is Christmas!
Last edited by tilewood; 19th Dec 2006 at 18:40.
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extracts from interview with Lloyd Morrison
The key point is we invested a small amount of money and we may well have lost it. Buying Kent (airport) is a good example. We paid 17 million pounds and we will spend another 10 million to 20 million pounds on it. If it doesn't work out, we could lose 40 million pounds. If it does work out, it's not going to be worth 40 million pounds, it's going to be worth many more times that. That's what we call optionality. The downside is measureable. If you buy an option on the market, it's not got nothing to do with NTA. It's really about looking at what the potential value is. I think we may shake that off over time, if we keep performing. (There are people who see) the glass is half full and (those who see) the glass is half empty. What we need us to get more of the half full ones. A number of the people who analyse us are the glass half empty people. A number of analysts who are very smart people rate us as a hold and they've rated us as a hold every time they've rated us in the last five years. Eventually they will be right. The criticisms of us are credible and fair. They might not be right and they haven't been right in the past, but they might be right this time. It takes different views to make a market.
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SC: Why have Glasgow Prestwick's freight volumes turned around? I thought the decline was structural in that industry was moving out of Scotland.
LM: That has been the case, but ultimately, as the White Paper looking into the future of UK airports said, regardless of those sort of issues, in the long term Prestwick will be a successful freight airport. It's the only one of sufficient size north of Manchester that can take large freighters. I guess we've bottomed and we've started to turn around. We will just have to see that the trend is maintained. We don't know what's going to happen on a month by month basis.
SC: The Kent airport seems to have been particularly successful in attracting freight volumes. Why? Isn't building freight the key to that airport?
LM: We will get passengers eventually. It could establish itself as a London airport for freight. It's showing some very good early signs, but it's early days. The weakness for the airport is it doesn't have enough airlines, but the ones it has are growing their business very quickly. It's already well ahead of where we expected it to be a year after buying it.
SC: What did you mean in the first-half report that Lubeck airport "may not be as constrained by its existing development consents as originally thought"? That's a much smaller airport than the other two isn't it?
LM: It is but it has a much larger catchment area. It's within an hour of 4.5 million people. In Wellington, there's only 500,000 people. It will never have freight, it will only have passengers. Historically, it's been very dependent on an extension of the runway. What's apparent to us now is some carriers are using different aircraft that don't need that extension.
SC: When do you expect Infratil's European airport operations will start making a positive contribution?
LM: We don't have a specific date, but it's something that we think about a lot. We're very aware of how hard it has been to turn around and the amount of resources that's been required, the effort required and how long it takes, but we're very confident we're getting it right. It really is hard, slow work. You have to be patient at the same time as working with quite a lot of optimism. We're sure we will get there.
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SC: Why have Glasgow Prestwick's freight volumes turned around? I thought the decline was structural in that industry was moving out of Scotland.
LM: That has been the case, but ultimately, as the White Paper looking into the future of UK airports said, regardless of those sort of issues, in the long term Prestwick will be a successful freight airport. It's the only one of sufficient size north of Manchester that can take large freighters. I guess we've bottomed and we've started to turn around. We will just have to see that the trend is maintained. We don't know what's going to happen on a month by month basis.
SC: The Kent airport seems to have been particularly successful in attracting freight volumes. Why? Isn't building freight the key to that airport?
LM: We will get passengers eventually. It could establish itself as a London airport for freight. It's showing some very good early signs, but it's early days. The weakness for the airport is it doesn't have enough airlines, but the ones it has are growing their business very quickly. It's already well ahead of where we expected it to be a year after buying it.
SC: What did you mean in the first-half report that Lubeck airport "may not be as constrained by its existing development consents as originally thought"? That's a much smaller airport than the other two isn't it?
LM: It is but it has a much larger catchment area. It's within an hour of 4.5 million people. In Wellington, there's only 500,000 people. It will never have freight, it will only have passengers. Historically, it's been very dependent on an extension of the runway. What's apparent to us now is some carriers are using different aircraft that don't need that extension.
SC: When do you expect Infratil's European airport operations will start making a positive contribution?
LM: We don't have a specific date, but it's something that we think about a lot. We're very aware of how hard it has been to turn around and the amount of resources that's been required, the effort required and how long it takes, but we're very confident we're getting it right. It really is hard, slow work. You have to be patient at the same time as working with quite a lot of optimism. We're sure we will get there.
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The key point is we invested a small amount of money and we may well have lost it. Buying Kent (airport) is a good example. We paid 17 million pounds and we will spend another 10 million to 20 million pounds on it. If it doesn't work out, we could lose 40 million pounds. If it does work out, it's not going to be worth 40 million pounds, it's going to be worth many more times that. That's what we call optionality.
So whatever happens hundreds of acres of land in the southeast is a good investment for Infratil.
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Manston Airport
I have to agree with Manston Airports thread. The right airlines are needed.
Having looked at some of the CAA info re passenger numbers. Manston airport certainly had reasonable passenger numbers on some routes. Despite the fact that the load factors were poor many of the routes were satisfactory for a smaller aircraft size, and the right airline with a good amount of low fares, promoting the market and with a good value percetion in the market. I think the most suitable airlines are Flybe and Aer Arann, Aer Arann with a twice daily ATR42 to Dublin,would develop the market and pick up a reasonable business??? If flybe had say 2 Q400s based they could perform the same miracles that they did at Exeter and Southampton...?? WHat does anyone think???
CAA INFO on MANSTON Airport
Eg month October 2004
Dublin ....3907( some months as high as 4500 )
Edinburgh...3948
Amsterdam...3538
Manchester...3119
With a well known brand like Flybe these figures could be improved significantly. What does anyone think???
Having looked at some of the CAA info re passenger numbers. Manston airport certainly had reasonable passenger numbers on some routes. Despite the fact that the load factors were poor many of the routes were satisfactory for a smaller aircraft size, and the right airline with a good amount of low fares, promoting the market and with a good value percetion in the market. I think the most suitable airlines are Flybe and Aer Arann, Aer Arann with a twice daily ATR42 to Dublin,would develop the market and pick up a reasonable business??? If flybe had say 2 Q400s based they could perform the same miracles that they did at Exeter and Southampton...?? WHat does anyone think???
CAA INFO on MANSTON Airport
Eg month October 2004
Dublin ....3907( some months as high as 4500 )
Edinburgh...3948
Amsterdam...3538
Manchester...3119
With a well known brand like Flybe these figures could be improved significantly. What does anyone think???
Join Date: May 2006
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I can see Morrison's comments going down like a lead balloon with the locals. The approach to Manston comes stright across the town of Ramsgate at less than 1000ft. The one thing they don't want (or need) is a massive freight depot, with large jets coming in at all hours of the day and night. Expect some serious opposition, if that's what they're planning.
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I think given the right incentives, BE moving into Manston would be great. Look what they've done for Exeter!!!!!! The dash-400 is ideal for this airport, and BE could make a real success out of it!
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I can see Morrison's comments going down like a lead balloon with the locals. The approach to Manston comes stright across the town of Ramsgate at less than 1000ft. The one thing they don't want (or need) is a massive freight depot, with large jets coming in at all hours of the day and night. Expect some serious opposition, if that's what they're planning.
Ah catflaps at last we now know why you dont want MSE to succeed, you dont want noisy aeroplanes flying over your house at 1000ft
Also I would remind you that it was Planestation ( the parent company) that had its bank funding withdrwn and therefore it was Planestation who took EUjet down.
Mdis
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Exhibit 1 M'lord:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/d...00/2529235.stm
C'mon if your gonna make sensationalistic claims, at least have your facts right.
It was hardly taken off a plane was it !
At the time of the incident African didn't have any aircraft at the airport, so they could hardly steal from it could they and without going into detail, Africans warehouse is outside the perimiter fence and the crooks were caught, so someone did notice.
Fact not fiction !!
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Many years ago at Luton, a Boeing 707 (or it could have been a 720) was scrapped in the run up bay area. Very early one morning a fleet of huge dump trucks arrived at the fire station to be escorted to the hulk. All the metal was removed from site and the fleet of trucks departed.
Later that day another, this time ligitimate fleet of dump trucks arrived to clear the scrap metal. An organised gang had stolen the metal, this also occured with the scrapping of the ex Britannia Airways Britannia's during the early 1970's.
An engine being stolen, probably by organised gangs intent on making a few quid.
Later that day another, this time ligitimate fleet of dump trucks arrived to clear the scrap metal. An organised gang had stolen the metal, this also occured with the scrapping of the ex Britannia Airways Britannia's during the early 1970's.
An engine being stolen, probably by organised gangs intent on making a few quid.
Yes, Planestation lost the support of their bank.
Why? Because their debts were growing week in, week out, and were in danger of eroding the limited asset base.
Why? Err, because they had a subsidiary called EUjet who were losing money hand over fist.
This is NOT a reflection on the quality of the people who worked for EUjet, just the unfortunate truth. If EUjet were the success some people imagined, they would actually have propped Planestation up. As it was, they dragged it down. To say that the bank withdrew support from Planestation may be true, but is a technicality in the greater scheme of things.
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Planestation had lost MK little or no cargo traffic only eujet left.
Now we have a company renting out land on the site, MK back with far more than before, Egypt Airways and more on the way.
next year will have USA flights and Kent escapes.
Investment new radar, noticed the runway lit up with new blue lights the other night.
Infratil are not going to spend 20m on the airports infrasture and sell it for non-aircraft use.
They may well sell it as an Airport, that's what they do, get cheap invest and sell.
These peple do there homework, experts in this sort of investment, look at there track record.
I am sure the airport will be sold on, But a up and running one.
You can say what you like , the company's on target to do said it would do and thats a fact.
Now we have a company renting out land on the site, MK back with far more than before, Egypt Airways and more on the way.
next year will have USA flights and Kent escapes.
Investment new radar, noticed the runway lit up with new blue lights the other night.
Infratil are not going to spend 20m on the airports infrasture and sell it for non-aircraft use.
They may well sell it as an Airport, that's what they do, get cheap invest and sell.
These peple do there homework, experts in this sort of investment, look at there track record.
I am sure the airport will be sold on, But a up and running one.
You can say what you like , the company's on target to do said it would do and thats a fact.