MANSTON- 3
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Ramsgate, Kent
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"We will have have to wait and see."
We've been waiting since 1997. That's ten years. How long will it be before you admit you're wrong ? My guess is that hell will freeze over first.
We've been waiting since 1997. That's ten years. How long will it be before you admit you're wrong ? My guess is that hell will freeze over first.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Thanet
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berrs -
The "Calm Down" jibe is a very tired old gag on this thread, I suggest you avoid it.
Meanwhile......
How come no Infratil report on November traffic at MSE?
They published October's within 48 hours.
Herne Bay,
The points you make are quite old, and sound good in theory, and I was convinced the first 40 - odd times I heard them from various sources.
So much so that I backed the airport financially.
I am a very frequent flyer, and would love to use MSE, but it will never happen. Travellers like me need double dailies to 50 - plus destinations all year round, and only London can supply this.
I am an MSE pessemist, but even I was shocked that Seguro were unable to fill a once-a-week service to two very popular destinations (some of the BCN flights carried only EIGHT pax)
I now realise that my flying antics put me in a minority in this part of the world - people simply are not interested.
LYX may well do better with it's affluent catchment area and good London links.
The "Calm Down" jibe is a very tired old gag on this thread, I suggest you avoid it.
Meanwhile......
How come no Infratil report on November traffic at MSE?
They published October's within 48 hours.
Herne Bay,
The points you make are quite old, and sound good in theory, and I was convinced the first 40 - odd times I heard them from various sources.
So much so that I backed the airport financially.
I am a very frequent flyer, and would love to use MSE, but it will never happen. Travellers like me need double dailies to 50 - plus destinations all year round, and only London can supply this.
I am an MSE pessemist, but even I was shocked that Seguro were unable to fill a once-a-week service to two very popular destinations (some of the BCN flights carried only EIGHT pax)
I now realise that my flying antics put me in a minority in this part of the world - people simply are not interested.
LYX may well do better with it's affluent catchment area and good London links.
Buzz off with BAF!!
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Catflaps is only stating the obvious. If he does sound a little irritable it is because this circular and sterile argument about Manston's future, or lack of it, has been aired so many times.
If wishes were fact then the airport would be buzzing, but it is as quiet as
the grave, and is indeed the graveyard of a number of airlines who have
tried and failed.
Cargo maybe - charter flights perhaps - scheduled services I don't think so.
Poor surface access and a small catchment area will not encourage high frequency operators.
I would like to be proved wrong, but the facts speak for themselves.
In the meantime keep dreaming!
Join Date: Dec 2000
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Manston overtakes Prestwick in cargo handled
18 December 2006
Wellington Airport November 2006 Traffic Statistics
November traffic results were more positive than they have been in recent months. Domestic passengers grew by 2.6% on last November (flat year to
date), and the domestic load factor in November was 76%. International
passengers were up 11.8% on last November (year to date down 1.3%) with a load factor of 75% for the month. Both these results are positive signs. Air
New Zealand has announced capacity reductions for a number of cities in
Northern Summer season 2007 (our winter), but the longer term outlook for
international traffic growth remains positive. The prospects for profitable
competition and growth, based on lower cost models, now seem better than they were earlier this year. Now that the code-share has been dropped, it seems more likely that Jetstar will expand on the Tasman, there are signs of Virgin Blue (Pacific Blue) performing better and seeking expansion opportunities, and Air New Zealand has said that it may revisit its model for the Tasman.
In other developments, Regency Duty Free commenced trading on-schedule on 1 December, despite delays earlier this year resulting from an arbitration with the incumbent. The first stage of the international terminal development will be largely complete by end January. Trading at the Airport Retail Park is
well underway with Stage 1 of the centre now almost completely leased. A
number of improvements and expansion of capacity have commenced in the car park. Finally, Wellington Airport has now received airline responses to its
3% per annum initial pricing proposal and will now consider airline views.
http://www.infratil.com/wial_financial_summary.htm
Infratil Airports Europe: November 2006 Traffic Statistics
Glasgow Prestwick Airport
Glasgow Prestwick handled a total of 161,101 passengers in November against a prior year total of 166,745.
New services launched throughout 2006 have benefited passenger throughput, set against a reduction in Ryanair capacity of more than 8,000 seats.
A new four-times-weekly service to Riga, operated by Ryanair, began operating at the start of the month.
The airport handled 2,872 tonnes of freight which represents a 14% increase
on the prior year total and the second highest monthly total of the calendar
year to date.
There were strong performances from Polar and Panalpina, while tonnage on ad hoc/charter movements is more than three times the prior year total, helped in part by four charters carrying whisky to South America.
Kent International Airport
Kent International handled 2,988 tonnes of freight in November making it
another record month, up 16% on October and nearly double the prior year
figure.
Scheduled services by MK Airlines account for 82% of the total tonnage and,
while freight volume is traditionally high at this time of year, exports were
21% up on October and continue to show encouraging signs.
Luebeck Airport
Passenger throughput in November, at 41,708, was marginally down on the prior year total of 42,623.
Load factors show an 8% increase on 2005 - roughly the same margin by which overall seat capacity has been reduced over the same period.
Ryanair announced their sixth destination from Luebeck during the month. They will operate a four-times-weekly service to Marseilles from January.
Wellington Airport November 2006 Traffic Statistics
November traffic results were more positive than they have been in recent months. Domestic passengers grew by 2.6% on last November (flat year to
date), and the domestic load factor in November was 76%. International
passengers were up 11.8% on last November (year to date down 1.3%) with a load factor of 75% for the month. Both these results are positive signs. Air
New Zealand has announced capacity reductions for a number of cities in
Northern Summer season 2007 (our winter), but the longer term outlook for
international traffic growth remains positive. The prospects for profitable
competition and growth, based on lower cost models, now seem better than they were earlier this year. Now that the code-share has been dropped, it seems more likely that Jetstar will expand on the Tasman, there are signs of Virgin Blue (Pacific Blue) performing better and seeking expansion opportunities, and Air New Zealand has said that it may revisit its model for the Tasman.
In other developments, Regency Duty Free commenced trading on-schedule on 1 December, despite delays earlier this year resulting from an arbitration with the incumbent. The first stage of the international terminal development will be largely complete by end January. Trading at the Airport Retail Park is
well underway with Stage 1 of the centre now almost completely leased. A
number of improvements and expansion of capacity have commenced in the car park. Finally, Wellington Airport has now received airline responses to its
3% per annum initial pricing proposal and will now consider airline views.
http://www.infratil.com/wial_financial_summary.htm
Infratil Airports Europe: November 2006 Traffic Statistics
Glasgow Prestwick Airport
Glasgow Prestwick handled a total of 161,101 passengers in November against a prior year total of 166,745.
New services launched throughout 2006 have benefited passenger throughput, set against a reduction in Ryanair capacity of more than 8,000 seats.
A new four-times-weekly service to Riga, operated by Ryanair, began operating at the start of the month.
The airport handled 2,872 tonnes of freight which represents a 14% increase
on the prior year total and the second highest monthly total of the calendar
year to date.
There were strong performances from Polar and Panalpina, while tonnage on ad hoc/charter movements is more than three times the prior year total, helped in part by four charters carrying whisky to South America.
Kent International Airport
Kent International handled 2,988 tonnes of freight in November making it
another record month, up 16% on October and nearly double the prior year
figure.
Scheduled services by MK Airlines account for 82% of the total tonnage and,
while freight volume is traditionally high at this time of year, exports were
21% up on October and continue to show encouraging signs.
Luebeck Airport
Passenger throughput in November, at 41,708, was marginally down on the prior year total of 42,623.
Load factors show an 8% increase on 2005 - roughly the same margin by which overall seat capacity has been reduced over the same period.
Ryanair announced their sixth destination from Luebeck during the month. They will operate a four-times-weekly service to Marseilles from January.
Join Date: Jul 2006
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I see IFT are still using the term "record month" to describe cargo tonnage at MSE, which is, of course, not true.
Oh well - at least they are acknowledging that any increase at this time of year is a seasonal factor.
Oh well - at least they are acknowledging that any increase at this time of year is a seasonal factor.
Buzz off with BAF!!
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Essex England
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Er .......... please explain how!! The turbines will be miles off shore,sending about enough power to light a torch, and that's when the wind blows. This will arrive via a cable to a substation and then onward to the grid.
Manston won't exactly become another Aberdeen.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sittingbourne Kent and at Wimborne Dorset
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But next year we have flights to america and three flights for kent escape lets hope more cargo flights and passager come in next year
please no stupid comments about this unless it dont happen this time next year you can say
James
Join Date: May 2006
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"..please no stupid comments about this unless it dont happen"
Why do I have to wait until next year to comment? Can't I comment about the Esperia flights that didn't happen this year (this month, in fact)? Presumably, by the time Kent Escapes and Virginia flights fail the optimists will have cooked up some new pipe-dream to talk about. In my experience, people who want only want to talk about the future can't face the present. This is what happened with EUjet. Everyone involved kept looking forward. No-one was looking at the financial black-hole opening up beneath their feet. You keep looking forward. I'll look where I'm treading, and I reserve the right to warn others.
Interesting news about Lydd today. The contrast with Manston is noteworthy. Lydd has a properly constructed business plan; they've done a full Environmental Impact Assessment in accordance with the regulations; they've submitted a formal planning application to extend the runway and build a new terminal; they're intending to engage with a full public consultation and they have a shed-load of money behind them. When you couple this with the transport links that have gone in, it looks as if Lydd could really take-off and scupper any passenger ambitions that Manston was harbouring.
Why do I have to wait until next year to comment? Can't I comment about the Esperia flights that didn't happen this year (this month, in fact)? Presumably, by the time Kent Escapes and Virginia flights fail the optimists will have cooked up some new pipe-dream to talk about. In my experience, people who want only want to talk about the future can't face the present. This is what happened with EUjet. Everyone involved kept looking forward. No-one was looking at the financial black-hole opening up beneath their feet. You keep looking forward. I'll look where I'm treading, and I reserve the right to warn others.
Interesting news about Lydd today. The contrast with Manston is noteworthy. Lydd has a properly constructed business plan; they've done a full Environmental Impact Assessment in accordance with the regulations; they've submitted a formal planning application to extend the runway and build a new terminal; they're intending to engage with a full public consultation and they have a shed-load of money behind them. When you couple this with the transport links that have gone in, it looks as if Lydd could really take-off and scupper any passenger ambitions that Manston was harbouring.
Join Date: Feb 2004
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err, have you ever been to lydd
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: EGMH..a down, not yet out, formerly awesome airfield
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Eujet, yes it failed as you've said umpteen times.
Esperia was never officially launched so not sure you can count it as failed?
Kent Escapes, they had start that was'nt fantastic, they've decided to do it again next year. They've now got their name established and people will trust them and use them more next year, especially on what are better routes than this year.
Virginia flights are doing well so I'm told. Surely too early for you you say they'll fail too.
Oh and the sheep have arrived on the airfield, They won't make money for Infratil but they'll save money for them.
Also expect there to be changes as there is now a new kid on the block too.
Join Date: Oct 2006
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It appears that we are going around in circles.
I would disagree that MSE doesnt have the catchment area because
EUjet were on target to carry 400,000 passengers in their first year of operation which is 100,000 more than SOU managed in their first year in the new terminal. Manston does have a place as a regional airport but it will never offer the 50 double dailies that deedave wants.
You may be intersed to know the catchment area extended as far as South London (FACT) and passengers were willing to travel to MSE as opposed to going to LGW.
If we take Maidstone as an example because it is equidistant from LGW and MSE. According to AA route planner it takes 46 minutes to travel the 42 miles to LGW and 57 minutes to travel the 44 miles to Manston resulting in a saving of 11 minutes. This will easily be consumed by the understaffed and inadequate securty at BAA, the long walk from the pier to the terminal and then the 40 minute minimum wait for baggage reclaim.
I note deedaves comment about the accident on the M2 which closed it, but in comparison to the M25 the M2 runs like a dream.
deedave you also ask why there was no announcement on pax figures for November, it probably because there werent any. Seguro had finished their Summer schedule and there were no other passenger movements apart from a few private jets.
I do feel that with the right operators and the right aircraft MSE can become a successful regional airport. Having said that, if MSE does succeed I will be very happy but if it doesn't I wont lose any sleep.
PS dont count your chickens on the Virginia flights!
Mdis
I would disagree that MSE doesnt have the catchment area because
EUjet were on target to carry 400,000 passengers in their first year of operation which is 100,000 more than SOU managed in their first year in the new terminal. Manston does have a place as a regional airport but it will never offer the 50 double dailies that deedave wants.
You may be intersed to know the catchment area extended as far as South London (FACT) and passengers were willing to travel to MSE as opposed to going to LGW.
If we take Maidstone as an example because it is equidistant from LGW and MSE. According to AA route planner it takes 46 minutes to travel the 42 miles to LGW and 57 minutes to travel the 44 miles to Manston resulting in a saving of 11 minutes. This will easily be consumed by the understaffed and inadequate securty at BAA, the long walk from the pier to the terminal and then the 40 minute minimum wait for baggage reclaim.
I note deedaves comment about the accident on the M2 which closed it, but in comparison to the M25 the M2 runs like a dream.
deedave you also ask why there was no announcement on pax figures for November, it probably because there werent any. Seguro had finished their Summer schedule and there were no other passenger movements apart from a few private jets.
I do feel that with the right operators and the right aircraft MSE can become a successful regional airport. Having said that, if MSE does succeed I will be very happy but if it doesn't I wont lose any sleep.
PS dont count your chickens on the Virginia flights!
Mdis
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Wind farm
The building of the London array will make 800 new jobs for 3 years on construction, and 100 jobs at Ramsgate long term.
This must have an major affect on areas, all of these are very well paid jobs.
The power from such an array will generate the power for the whole of Kent and part of Sussex, (all we need is wind of course).1% of the UK requirement.
When the Herne Bay wind farm was being built a few private planes used the airport and few jets.
As Thanet inproves with new investment I gives an economic boost to the area brings more companys in. The jet engine repair centre being next to the airport, next year. The shoping centre at Westwood, Thanet is not the run down place it was a few years ago.
The building of the London array will make 800 new jobs for 3 years on construction, and 100 jobs at Ramsgate long term.
This must have an major affect on areas, all of these are very well paid jobs.
The power from such an array will generate the power for the whole of Kent and part of Sussex, (all we need is wind of course).1% of the UK requirement.
When the Herne Bay wind farm was being built a few private planes used the airport and few jets.
As Thanet inproves with new investment I gives an economic boost to the area brings more companys in. The jet engine repair centre being next to the airport, next year. The shoping centre at Westwood, Thanet is not the run down place it was a few years ago.
Join Date: Jul 2006
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This is a Manston thread, so I won't bang on about LYX too much.
However -
Ashford is an established London commuter town, with a fast train link(soon to be faster) full of wealthy looking suity types.
I have no idea if Lydd has a future as a commercial airport, but with the area's cultural identity linked to the metropolis, it sure as hell has a better chance than dear old baseball-cap Thanet.
EUjet only got bums on seats at MSE by giving the seats away, but the aircraft were still more than half empty.
Seguro are selling their seats at a proper price, and it ain't going too well.
If LYX can sell a decent number of seats at a commercial rate then MSE is sunk as a pax airport.
And with the impact of the Stern report coupled with increased capacity at the London airports, you can forget about the idea that this area has room for two commercially viable airports.
However -
Ashford is an established London commuter town, with a fast train link(soon to be faster) full of wealthy looking suity types.
I have no idea if Lydd has a future as a commercial airport, but with the area's cultural identity linked to the metropolis, it sure as hell has a better chance than dear old baseball-cap Thanet.
EUjet only got bums on seats at MSE by giving the seats away, but the aircraft were still more than half empty.
Seguro are selling their seats at a proper price, and it ain't going too well.
If LYX can sell a decent number of seats at a commercial rate then MSE is sunk as a pax airport.
And with the impact of the Stern report coupled with increased capacity at the London airports, you can forget about the idea that this area has room for two commercially viable airports.
Join Date: Oct 2006
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deedave
Were you involved in the management of EUjet?
I assume not otherwise you wouldnt be saying what you are saying, therefore how do you know how many aircraft were half empty and how much the seats were sold for
I have passenger figures for all flights for every day that they operated and I can assure you that you info is wrong! Please dont come back with "well there wont be much paperwork as they only operated for less than a year" Ive heard it all before.
As I have said before I am not hung up on Manston but there needs to be some reality here.
If LYX beats MSE to it then this bodes well for East Kent. I would still rather go to LYX or MSE than LGW. Do you really believe that LYX will have the 50 double dailies that you so require. Also the Eurostar is soon to have its stops at Ashford seriously reduced, Obviously the passenger loads from this Commuter town arent as lucrative as you suggest.
I notice you had no response to my Maidstone traveller scenario, or the publication of November pax figures.
Mdis
Were you involved in the management of EUjet?
I assume not otherwise you wouldnt be saying what you are saying, therefore how do you know how many aircraft were half empty and how much the seats were sold for
I have passenger figures for all flights for every day that they operated and I can assure you that you info is wrong! Please dont come back with "well there wont be much paperwork as they only operated for less than a year" Ive heard it all before.
As I have said before I am not hung up on Manston but there needs to be some reality here.
If LYX beats MSE to it then this bodes well for East Kent. I would still rather go to LYX or MSE than LGW. Do you really believe that LYX will have the 50 double dailies that you so require. Also the Eurostar is soon to have its stops at Ashford seriously reduced, Obviously the passenger loads from this Commuter town arent as lucrative as you suggest.
I notice you had no response to my Maidstone traveller scenario, or the publication of November pax figures.
Mdis
I understand your argument about the trickle down effect of a major project like this, and indeed it's most welcome. But I simply don't see that a) a great deal of that money will remain in the local economy, and b) that what does will trickle down far enough to stimulate demand for the airport.