BIRMINGHAM - 3

[AMM626]

I think even on the European front it will be difficult to break even with an already poor year this year. Flybe will be significantly less than Flybe and BACON and, whilst ANY expansion is welcome, it would seem like Baby's new routes are like putting a sticking plaster on a broken leg.
Some interesting times ahead and BHX probably needs a good long look at where its heading, can't see many (if any) full service airlines being interested after OK and AZ both failed.
As for Long Haul, it would seem that with CO going west and EK goin east the management are just happy to advertise the legendary 'one easy connection' and settle for it.
I think BHX has potential to be far greater than what it is, what we need is an administration with ambition, vision and most of all balls, but sadly it's BHX and nothing ever changes.

[steviefartpants]

Originally Posted by adz555666

So I've resigned myself to the fact that BHX will never get the runway extension it so badly needs. This is due to the local NIMBYS who will protest about anything connected to BHX. They moan saying that there will be an increase in noise, pollution etc.....

If you don't like it MOVE HOUSE!!
(Or if you live close enough, take up the offer that BHX gave you for buying your property, & go live somewhere far far away!)

BHX has been there for many many years, why buy a house next to or near and airport? Didn't they notice the planes when they signed the contract?!!!

But the ironic things is, when these's NIMBY'S want to visit Aunty Jean in USA/NZ/Auz, they'll be the first to moan about having to travel to LHR/LGW?MAN etc when they got an airport "right on there doorstep!"

And due to the current management team at BHX pandering to NIMBY's, the only new routes that BHX will be able to attract will be new European destinations!

Sorry for the rant but its been buiding up for 20+ years!!

Best Wishes

Adam

What rubbish about the local nimbys, yeah they moan and groan but in the end its for nothing as the expansion goes ahead anyway.
As for them holding back expansion to the usa to see aunty jean, why did BA and AA stop flying to USA.... cos they were losing a lot of money due to demand/yield low, not due to the local nimbys they probably flew from london or man cos it was cheaper.

Emirates advertised Australia from BHX but there aircraft are not full of local people wanting to fly there, so is the demand there for quantas or ba to operate.....no!

Why did alitalia stop?
why did ryanair not expand?
Costs not the locals moaning.

Its the BHX management who holds back BHX with there high costs etc.

As for sell up to BHX,Bhx offered to buy the houses affected for the new runway at valuations of 4+ years ago meaning that they wanted to buy them at cost hell of a lot lower than current market value.That would mean the owners taking out extra mortgages of upto 30+k to buy a similar house far far away....would you sell to them for that kind of deal,I dont think so.

P.S. I'm not one of your nimbys.

[bmibaby.com]

A merger between flybe and BA Connect at least guarantees that some of the routes will be safe. If the merger doesn't go ahead, then BACON will simply be closed down, or potentially offered to another airline, as British Airways has no interest in operating from the regions, as they cannot do so profitably. Whilst this may mean frequencies decrease, I don't see a major drop in capacity if there is market for these flights. Taking GLA or EDI as an example, flybe will be providing frequent flights, bmibaby will be on these at least three times daily as well as thrice daily from EMA, and there is also a decent rail service from Virgin Trains. With all of this competition, you can see how BACON were potentially being squeezed. It would be a real shame if flybe didn't take this opportunity to fill in gaps in BHX's shorthaul route network such as Italy, Eastern Europe and Scandinavia; as well as keeping up the excellent BACON network in Germany, virgin ground it seems for flybe.

I have heard that flybe are now nearly confirmed to be operating from Terminal 2 to be handled by Swissport. This seems like the best solution for both the airport and flybe. The airport doesn't see a huge imbalance between T1 & T2 as they did after the closure of duo. flybe get to scream the benefits of regional airport flying - ie quick from the car, to the check in, to the departure gate - minimal fuss which is what business passengers want. I think it's a shame that flybe might not be offering Executive Club benefits, as these would be a major incentive to keep people loyal to the proposed 15% owned by BA flybe. Hopefully flybe and Swissport can offer the high levels of customer service that BA Connect passengers have come to expect.

[adz555666]

A few months ago, I was wondering who to fly with when I was planning a daytrip to GLA from BHX

Flybe quoted me £25 rtn,
BACON quoted me £50 rtn!

I can see why BACON never stood a chance!

Best Wishes

Adam

[OltonPete]

BHX - flybe/Baby

bmibaby.com

I agree with virtually all you say, T2 would be good for flybe and hopefully
they will pick up on the Italian, Scandinavian and Eastern European routes. However if their hands are tied due aircraft availability then
Baby should jump in.

I know this won't be popular elsewhere but the unallocated 737 should
come BHX's or MAN's way in view of the flybe bacon merger.

Or even better WW should be looking to source more aircraft.

I know it has been said many times that decent 733's are getting
scarce but do you know if they are looking for more?

The takeover is not only an opportunity for flybe, it is for baby as well if they to be a a serious player in the Midlands and North West lo cost scene.

Pete

[hammerb32]

Olton Pete,

Wholeheartedly agree with your viewpoint, BAs retreat from the 'regions' is an amazing opportunity for BMIbaby and indeed the wider BMI group to fill the voids created. FlyBE will indoubtedy be forced to reduce some services or frequancies as they won't have the aircraft to operate them all.

[FougaMagister]

Re. BHX T2: it's natural for BIA to consider concentrating all flybe/BACON flights in one terminal, but those of us who have experience of working in both terminals will know that T2 is whoefully inadequate for fast-turnaround, low-cost ops, due to a number of specific procedures and bottlenecks (such as only one PAX security gate). Anything less than a 40-minute turnaround is a struggle at T2.

Also, flybe would need most if not all of T2 for themselves, but I can testify that Skyteam (AF/CityJet and KLM/KLM Cityhopper) will not leave T2 for the much less business-friendly T1 without a fight... They each have 6 flights a (week)day out of T2.

As for baby, obviously the flybe/BACON "merger" does create some opportunities for them. Fleet-wise, with decent 733s being in increasingly short supply, the future is in getting some (or most) ex-easyjet 737-700s as they become available. Higher lease costs yes, but lower running costs (including fuel burn) and fewer "tech" issues. Go on baby, be a devil! You know you want the 737NG...

Cheers

[groundhogbhx]

Fouga

You might have problems turning a/c round that fast but we don't. The LX turnround time is 30 mins on the ARJ and that hasn't caused any problems. So the scheduled 25 mins on a dash or 30 on a 146/E95 won't worry us at all.

[bmibaby.com]

Originally Posted by FougaMagister

As for baby, obviously the flybe/BACON "merger" does create some opportunities for them. Fleet-wise, with decent 733s being in increasingly short supply, the future is in getting some (or most) ex-easyjet 737-700s as they become available. Higher lease costs yes, but lower running costs (including fuel burn) and fewer "tech" issues. Go on baby, be a devil! You know you want the 737NG...
Cheers

It seems silly for bmi not to allow bmibaby to expand right now, to make the most of the flybe acquisition of BA Connect, however the airline currently cannot afford to expand any more than our allocated allowance of new aircraft that have been planned for, so unless Sir MB or Lufthansa can come up with some more funds, I doubt we'll be getting any more B733s than planned. I'd like to see bmibaby expand into more markets from the stations most affected by BA Connect's disappearance (BHX & MAN) but sadly bmi doesn't seem to have the foresight to realise you have to spend money to make money.

I was sure that T2 was equipped to allow for 30 minute turnarounds. Surely the terminal would allow for the combined flybe programme as well as the Skyteam airlines? I just can't imagine how quiet the terminal would be otherwise. Surely it wouldn't also be too difficult to consider adding another security screening gate when you consider the number of passengers who will be passing though, particularly if BHX want to keep T2 a functioning business-like terminal.

[groundhogbhx]

There is plenty of stand space now that the 20's are open, just have to hope that NCP can keep up with th bussing requirements. Having said that there will be fewer off stand flights in T1 for them to deal with Just hope the decisions are made soon 'cos thats one heck of a lot of staff that need poaching, sorry meant recruiting

[FougaMagister]

Originally Posted by groundhogbhx

Fouga: You might have problems turning a/c round that fast but we don't. The LX turnround time is 30 mins on the ARJ and that hasn't caused any problems.

Of course. But that's also because Swissport have a good number of PAX services staff (which is how it should be). However, I have also witnessed rushed Swiss turnarounds - in one case on 8R with the airbridge off, loaders working both holds... and the Avro's anti-collision beacon already on! Come on guys, that's basic airmanship; risking a nasty accident for the sake of a few minutes isn't worth it (lucky there wasn't a DfT ramp audit at the time!)

Moving on... I agree that the situation is better with the new T2 remote stands, but I foresee traffic jams at the drop-off points, when NCP buses will block all movement by other vehicles (catering, fuel bowsers, tugs, emergency vehicles, etc.) Also, while the single T2 security gate could be improved for faster PAX flow (provided the security staff are willing to make an effort), there are also issues one floor down, i.e. only one baggage carrousel in domestic arrivals and one in international arrivals. Considering flybe's intensive schedule, there are bound to be some bottlenecks there as well. Better not give a blank cheque to BIA...

Another possible issue, should Skyteam stay in T2, is which stands to use for the E195s. Due to fuselage length, I think they can only use airbridge stands 8R/9 or 14, but these are the only acceptable stands for KLM's 737s (stand 14 can't take 737-800s or -900s for the same reason). Both AF and KLM handling contracts require airbridge stands as standard.

More headaches then?

Re. baby not being able to afford new aircraft: I find it odd that bmi can buy 45 A319/320/321/330, that Air Berlin can afford 60 A320s, flybe can finance 41 Dash8Q-400s and 14 E195s, but that baby has to make do with leasing second-hand 737-300s and has to keep the lower-rated, higher seat-mile cost 737-500s. Granted, they are good planes, but as they get older, reliability goes down and running costs go up. Remember that baby flight crew are already rated on 737NGs...

Cheers

[bmibaby.com]

Originally Posted by FougaMagister

Re. baby not being able to afford new aircraft: I find it odd that bmi can buy 45 A319/320/321/330, that Air Berlin can afford 60 A320s, flybe can finance 41 Dash8Q-400s and 14 E195s, but that baby has to make do with leasing second-hand 737-300s and has to keep the lower-rated, higher seat-mile cost 737-500s. Granted, they are good planes, but as they get older, reliability goes down and running costs go up. Remember that baby flight crew are already rated on 737NGs...
Cheers

Of course I completely agree with you that it's insane bmi and Lufthansa have not realised the huge potential that bmibaby or bmi regional have from the merger of flybe and BA Connect, especially when you see Lufthansa's own low-cost airline Germanwings growing from strength to strength. bmi did have an EMB-190 demonstrator at EMA towards the end of the summer which was apparently being looked into for either baby or regional, but no further information from that demonstration has been forthcoming. Indeed, the 737-300 and to a further extent the 735s are not the most efficient aircraft compared to what the competition is flying, however following big orders from Southwest and Air Berlin, there doesn't appear to be much room on the 737-700 production line for brand new examples, and I don't think baby have any interest in flying Airbus equipment. I can see the 733s being around for a couple of years yet, though it's a shame that either more of these aircraft, or indeed new ones, cannot be sourced quickly to make the best of this current situation.

[AMM626]

BHX up for sale?

07.12.06
Australian investment bank Macquarie is preparing to sell its stake in Birmingham Airport, in a move that could prompt a full sale of Britain's fifth busiest airport, The Business newspaper reports.
The newspaper says that Macquarie, who recently took full control of Bristol Airport, has offered to sell its 24% holding in Birmingham International to the seven West Midlands councils that together already own 49% of the airport. Under the terms of the shareholding pact, the councils have pre-emptive rights - or first option - to buy Macquarie's stake.
However, 'sources familiar with the situation' have told the newspaper that the move by Macquarie to sell its shares has prompted the councils to consider a sale of their own larger stake, which could lead a buyer to purchase both sets of shares and effectively gain control of the airport.
Irish airports' operator Aer Rianta also owns a 24% stake, while the remaining approximate 3% is held in an employees' share trust. Bankers believe a joint sale by Macquarie and the councils to a single buyer would prompt Aer Rianta to reconsider its position because the firm's influence would be greatly weakened.
Analysts estimate that the current appetite for infrastructure assets could see Birmingham Airport, which posted earnings of £50m in 2004, sell for anywhere between £1bn and £1.8bn. The airport handles about 10m passengers a year making it Britain's fifth busiest. London's City Airport recently sold for £750m - a multiple of more than 35 times earnings.

http://www.uk-airport-news.info/birm...ews-071206.htm

[groundhogbhx]

Originally Posted by FougaMagister

Of course. But that's also because Swissport have a good number of PAX services staff (which is how it should be). However, I have also witnessed rushed Swiss turnarounds - in one case on 8R with the airbridge off, loaders working both holds... and the Avro's anti-collision beacon already on! Come on guys, that's basic airmanship; risking a nasty accident for the sake of a few minutes isn't worth it (lucky there wasn't a DfT ramp audit at the time!)

So from your position in the departure lounge you know that the ramp team where aware that the anti cols were on?? Last time I checked it was impossible to see the top beacon and only possible to see the light from the bottom one bouncing off the concrete from the hold door if you were looking in the right direction (very unlikely if you are loading bags) It is also very unlikely that you would notice them driving from one hold to the other. Anyway isn't it the responsibiltiy of the crew to be in contact with the ramp crew to ensure everything is clear BEFORE they switch the lights on, so I think they might need you to give them a lesson in airmanship as well

[Bombay Bad Boy]

Takeover at Brum

I dont think a takeover would be a bad thing. Hopefully we might get a new tower instead of the jaded one we work in on the western apron!!

egbb.co.uk
BBB

[bmibaby.com]

Just going back to the issue of whether flybe will move into Terminal 2, I was under the impression that the six new remote stands adjacent to T2, as well as stands one through four at the terminal are now all capable of handling aircraft up to Boeing 737-800 sized aircraft. Considering this, the recent refurbishment of the check in hall, and planned refurbishment of the departure lounge over the winter, is it so unreasonable to think that perhaps the new terminal might be workable for flybe, especially if the airport looks into security points and the arrivals hall. As flybe operate a paid for baggage handling and lots of business routes, how extensive would work have to be for the arrivals hall to accomodate their flights? I'd imagine there are few people coming off of GLA, EDI, CDG with luggage on a BA Connect or flybe flight - though their holiday routes to France and Spain may well be very different.

[tangocharlie]

I am sure that Flybe will move to T2. However BIA's long term problem has been that many carriers would not move to the 'BA' (T2) terminal. Swapping BA for Flybe will not help BIA who will still be desperate for other carriers to move to T2.

[bmibaby.com]

I wonder though what other airlines they could really want to move into the new terminal. flybe will have a fairly large combined operation in the terminal next year also bearing in mind any future expansion. Perhaps Lufthansa and SAS could join Star Alliance partner Swiss in T2, otherwise I can't really think of any suitable suggestions. Is there a major cost difference for airlines in using one terminal over the other? I certainly doubt we'd see bmibaby there anyway, despite us having a large poster in T2 saying something along the lines of us "now playing with the big boys"

[GayFriendly]

Bits and Bobs

Hi - anyone got any info on what might happen to the BA Billund route if BE finally get to eat the BACON sandwich?? Its available to book in June (when I want to travel) on the BA website but is it actually operating at the mo - it forever seems to be cancelled according to the BIA flights info on their website.

BMI Baby crew rumours (hot off the back galley from a mate who works for them at BHX) - new routes to be Riga, Budapest and Venice if ninth 737 arrives...................would be nice I suppose!!

On another forum - Aer Arann have confirmed BHX to Waterford flights starting May daily except Sat. But no mention of it on their website. Anyone got any info?? Would be nice to see RE back.

And finally - have BE bitten off more than they can chew - all Spain routes from BHX cancelled from Jan (instead of March), me thinks a few aircraft short for all this what has to be said rapid expansion and thats without them unveiling the integrated BACON schedule - should this indeed actually happen. Will they manage FRA, STR etc etc...............

[groundhogbhx]

Originally Posted by GayFriendly

And finally - have BE bitten off more than they can chew - all Spain routes from BHX cancelled from Jan (instead of March), me thinks a few aircraft short for all this what has to be said rapid expansion and thats without them unveiling the integrated BACON schedule - should this indeed actually happen. Will they manage FRA, STR etc etc...............

Don't remember seeing any routes chopped last time I updated the schedule, a few reductions but nothing completely gone. But that could all change next week