CORK - 4
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I have heard that EI were aware of CSA's plans and that was a factor in selecting it as a route.
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Speaking of Prague yesterday's Aer Lingus flight 832 from Cork to Prague eventually left from Shannon last night around 10.30 pm arriving back at Cork this morning around 4 am. What an ordeal! The situation was brought about by yesterday's EI816 to Warsaw having to divert to Berlin due to the WAW weather and the later returning flight to Cork then having to divert to Shannon due to crosswinds and windshear in the local area.
Today, in order to have the normal Monday morning flights back in place EI had to hire in a 737 from Titan that operated the Alicante schedule so in the early afternoon the ramp was busy with three of the four EI A320s along with the Titan 737 before she left again for Stansted around 4.30 pm. That is now twice in recent times EI have had to hire in from Titan all of which adds to the costs of operating a schedule from Cork.
Cork Airport - what a place! She has got you loving her and hating her all at the same time!
By the way, there was another one of those one off charters to the Cape Verde Islands this morning in the shape of an Astraeus 737. Long flight in a 737 but then again Astaeus are the specialists in that area with their history of long haul oil related flights to the centre of Africa.
Makes you think if New York would be legally possible from Cork in a 737-700?
Today, in order to have the normal Monday morning flights back in place EI had to hire in a 737 from Titan that operated the Alicante schedule so in the early afternoon the ramp was busy with three of the four EI A320s along with the Titan 737 before she left again for Stansted around 4.30 pm. That is now twice in recent times EI have had to hire in from Titan all of which adds to the costs of operating a schedule from Cork.
Cork Airport - what a place! She has got you loving her and hating her all at the same time!
By the way, there was another one of those one off charters to the Cape Verde Islands this morning in the shape of an Astraeus 737. Long flight in a 737 but then again Astaeus are the specialists in that area with their history of long haul oil related flights to the centre of Africa.
Makes you think if New York would be legally possible from Cork in a 737-700?
Last edited by Tom the Tenor; 20th Nov 2006 at 15:38.
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Cork Prague history
CSA were introduced to Cork in 2003 following a sustained effort by the former Marketing director John Smyth. The route was an outstanding success and thousands of Cork people availed of their 1st opportunity to fly directly to a Central European City.
They also provided a convenient connecting point for Poles and Latvians and many others to fly to and from Cork.
However by this year Cork had set up direct links to Budapest,Warsaw, Katowice,Berlin, Kracow, Wroclaw and Gdansk. This seriously diluted CSA's load factor and yield and with EI about to enter the Prague route CSA decided to leave.
The introduction of Cork Prague did serve a useful purpose at the time. Although the novelty of flying there has worn off, it could still probably sustain more flights than EI's 3 per week programme.
Over to Sky Europe or some other low cost.
They also provided a convenient connecting point for Poles and Latvians and many others to fly to and from Cork.
However by this year Cork had set up direct links to Budapest,Warsaw, Katowice,Berlin, Kracow, Wroclaw and Gdansk. This seriously diluted CSA's load factor and yield and with EI about to enter the Prague route CSA decided to leave.
The introduction of Cork Prague did serve a useful purpose at the time. Although the novelty of flying there has worn off, it could still probably sustain more flights than EI's 3 per week programme.
Over to Sky Europe or some other low cost.
Last edited by ryan2000; 20th Nov 2006 at 19:04.
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Maybe Ryanair would operate a Cork -New York service when OpenSkies agreement is implemented. I took a flight from Newark to Oakland on a Continental 737-800 which is a similar distance.
Other routes that I'm surprised no carrier is on yet are Vilnius and Riga.
Maybe 2007..
Other routes that I'm surprised no carrier is on yet are Vilnius and Riga.
Maybe 2007..
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De Paper is running a story today that Mr Michael Cawley, Ryanair is due to meet up with Cork TDs on Thursday in order to promote Ryanair's bid to use the old terminal at Cork to bring some more business to the airport.
So, why not let FR use the old terminal now? The much hoped for 5th EI Airbus at Cork for next summer looks like it is gone for a Burton and if FR can bring some growth to Cork Airport in 2007 why not let 'em because it is slowly beginning to look like there will not be a whole lot else happening or are there still hopes for other new business?
Then again, Ryanair could still avail of fairly generous incentives from Cork by using the new terminal if they began a series of brand new routes and use of the old one would as a result be immaterial? Why the fixation on Ryanair's wanting to use the old terminal? Attention seeking exercise?
Interesting development all the same.
So, why not let FR use the old terminal now? The much hoped for 5th EI Airbus at Cork for next summer looks like it is gone for a Burton and if FR can bring some growth to Cork Airport in 2007 why not let 'em because it is slowly beginning to look like there will not be a whole lot else happening or are there still hopes for other new business?
Then again, Ryanair could still avail of fairly generous incentives from Cork by using the new terminal if they began a series of brand new routes and use of the old one would as a result be immaterial? Why the fixation on Ryanair's wanting to use the old terminal? Attention seeking exercise?
Interesting development all the same.
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Hmmm.........this was in the paper in August also...it's a tough decision..
Do Ryanair know that rats have taken over the old terminal?!
In the end, I would definitly allow Ryanair to use the old terminal!
Ryanair would probably double the amount of passenger numbers!
I wonder would they intend to revamp the old terminal or just keep it the way it is?
Would they add a new baggage belt? What would happen with catering? Surely they would do something with the departure lounge!
After all the money they spend on their aircraft surely they could spare 8million to revamp it!
What are your views?
Until Next Time,
Fred
Do Ryanair know that rats have taken over the old terminal?!
In the end, I would definitly allow Ryanair to use the old terminal!
Ryanair would probably double the amount of passenger numbers!
I wonder would they intend to revamp the old terminal or just keep it the way it is?
Would they add a new baggage belt? What would happen with catering? Surely they would do something with the departure lounge!
After all the money they spend on their aircraft surely they could spare 8million to revamp it!
What are your views?
Until Next Time,
Fred
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why not let 'em because it is slowly beginning to look like there will not be a whole lot else happening or are there still hopes for other new business?
Then again, Ryanair could still avail of fairly generous incentives from Cork by using the new terminal if they began a series of brand new routes and use of the old one would as a result be immaterial? Why the fixation on Ryanair's wanting to use the old terminal? Attention seeking exercise?
Interesting development all the same.
Then again, Ryanair could still avail of fairly generous incentives from Cork by using the new terminal if they began a series of brand new routes and use of the old one would as a result be immaterial? Why the fixation on Ryanair's wanting to use the old terminal? Attention seeking exercise?
Interesting development all the same.
Revamp the terminal, FR??? Surely you are joking? Have you seen the state of some of the interiors and paintwork of the 738? Tatty really doesnt matter to FR, so long as it works OK, twill do.
I believe there are also planning issues here. Until the current terminal is full, unlikely that CCC would allow the old one to reopen. Bottom line if CAA allows this to happen you can kiss cheap and frequent flight top anywhere slán!
Brian.
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Ryanair and Cork
Brian is spot on in my view. A Shannon type deal at Cork would quickly undermine existing business particularly if FR want to cherry pick routes.
I'm broadly supportive of CAA on this one but they have to generate new business somewhere. If that means trimming costs then they should go and do it.
Why have a board that's immobilsed by indecision.
I'm broadly supportive of CAA on this one but they have to generate new business somewhere. If that means trimming costs then they should go and do it.
Why have a board that's immobilsed by indecision.
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JBS
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Surely any deal to use the old terminal would have to go to tender. They couldn't just give it to Ryanair.I'd say it'd mean reductions for Shannon. Ryanair are constantly saying fares at Shannon are below expectations. They have to give away the seats for nothing just to fill the planes. Cork has a far better catchment area than Shannon, and should be more successful. I'd say if the price were right at Cork, we could see significant withdrawals from Shannon.
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.... and now for something completely different
Usually just lurk here, and spare me bile 'n stuff for Jet Blast. A thread which I recently posted on the aformentioned JB posed a question about why seaplanes aren't used so much. My thinking was, look how many business people travel Cork-Dublin / Dublin-Cork each day but train, plane and car. Flights are now good value, but being dumped out at Dub airport is a nightmare. Cork is a lot better but it can still be a bit of a haul at times.
How's about being able to stroll down to Custom House Quay, walk down to a pontoon and board a seaplane to take you right into Dublin city centre. Might be a tad slower than Aer Arann or Ryanair but the time saved not spent in traffic would be a delight. Also it wouldn't be a lo-co, but I'd be confident enough that people would be happy to pay a slight premium for the convenience.
All major Irish cities have enough water in and around their centre for them to be serviced in such a way. That's before you look at some cross-channel destinations.
Ok, then ... now all we need is a whip-round for a few mill and we're on our way.
Usually just lurk here, and spare me bile 'n stuff for Jet Blast. A thread which I recently posted on the aformentioned JB posed a question about why seaplanes aren't used so much. My thinking was, look how many business people travel Cork-Dublin / Dublin-Cork each day but train, plane and car. Flights are now good value, but being dumped out at Dub airport is a nightmare. Cork is a lot better but it can still be a bit of a haul at times.
How's about being able to stroll down to Custom House Quay, walk down to a pontoon and board a seaplane to take you right into Dublin city centre. Might be a tad slower than Aer Arann or Ryanair but the time saved not spent in traffic would be a delight. Also it wouldn't be a lo-co, but I'd be confident enough that people would be happy to pay a slight premium for the convenience.
All major Irish cities have enough water in and around their centre for them to be serviced in such a way. That's before you look at some cross-channel destinations.
Ok, then ... now all we need is a whip-round for a few mill and we're on our way.
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I've seen this done between Vancouver and Victoria and it really is a city centre to city centre connection.
I suspect there would be a problem at the Dublin end though. Is there enough space wast of the East Link bridge to land and take off in a sea plane? If not, you're going to end up quite a wat out of Dublin.
Mind you, I have sometimes wondered about the possibility of helicopter services for city centre operations. In particular on short routes where the train is not there (Dublin-Manchester, Belfast-Glasgow) could you get enough demand to make it pay.
I suspect there would be a problem at the Dublin end though. Is there enough space wast of the East Link bridge to land and take off in a sea plane? If not, you're going to end up quite a wat out of Dublin.
Mind you, I have sometimes wondered about the possibility of helicopter services for city centre operations. In particular on short routes where the train is not there (Dublin-Manchester, Belfast-Glasgow) could you get enough demand to make it pay.
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Ryanair and Cork old terminal
If Ryanair got it, it would be with one agenda- kill off all competition at Cork. Ryanair has never done Cork any favours before- so let them operate from new terminal and also benefit from the free new route incentives. Give them the old terminal and we will end up like Shannon, totally at the mercy of ryanair and without the added "benefits" of the transatlantic traffic.i
The Cork TDS , who incidentally do not have a say in the matter of the future of the old terminal ,will be very aware that this is KITE flying Mr.O' Leary. Lets get the new terminal paid for first as agreed and DAA has the sale of the 270 million (our earmarked money) from the GSH Hotels to fund it.
Re Aidan-f suggestion on flying Boats i was watching a tv programme at weekend on the Hughes flying boat "mother duck " in the 1940s and the same thought struck me- 747s with pontoons strapped underneath, heading for the east river New York from the Marina every morning. Control tower on the roof of Blackrock Castle.
The point was well made in the programme that with the increases in air traffic the only way to keep things managable and safe will be to reduce the numbers of aircraft and upsize everything - so its starting with the Airbus A380 , but they suggested next phase for 737s etc will also be much larger to carry perhaps an additional 100 passengers - thus limiting the capacity of many airports to handle them - so maybe sea planes will make a comeback. . who knows ?
The Cork TDS , who incidentally do not have a say in the matter of the future of the old terminal ,will be very aware that this is KITE flying Mr.O' Leary. Lets get the new terminal paid for first as agreed and DAA has the sale of the 270 million (our earmarked money) from the GSH Hotels to fund it.
Re Aidan-f suggestion on flying Boats i was watching a tv programme at weekend on the Hughes flying boat "mother duck " in the 1940s and the same thought struck me- 747s with pontoons strapped underneath, heading for the east river New York from the Marina every morning. Control tower on the roof of Blackrock Castle.
The point was well made in the programme that with the increases in air traffic the only way to keep things managable and safe will be to reduce the numbers of aircraft and upsize everything - so its starting with the Airbus A380 , but they suggested next phase for 737s etc will also be much larger to carry perhaps an additional 100 passengers - thus limiting the capacity of many airports to handle them - so maybe sea planes will make a comeback. . who knows ?
Rebel PPRuNer
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TTT re your question on page 6 - atr only list Cat2 for the 72-500. I'm not sure there is such an animal as a Cat3a/b prop but am open to correction.
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Route Support Scheme for new routes
I'm also quite bemused as to why Aer Lingus aren't so eager to benefit from the generous route support scheme for new routes!
Why compete on routes such as Birmingham, Manchester and Prague! Especially when Aer Lingus are offering crapier schedules than the competitors who are already established on those routes!?
Indeed, if Aer Lingus eliminate BMI Baby, then they can enjoy some very nice yields on Birmingham and Manchester, but I hope that that day doesn't come.
It's a huge same that neither Ryanair nor Aer Lingus are committed to introducing new routes at Cork in the short term
Why compete on routes such as Birmingham, Manchester and Prague! Especially when Aer Lingus are offering crapier schedules than the competitors who are already established on those routes!?
Indeed, if Aer Lingus eliminate BMI Baby, then they can enjoy some very nice yields on Birmingham and Manchester, but I hope that that day doesn't come.
It's a huge same that neither Ryanair nor Aer Lingus are committed to introducing new routes at Cork in the short term
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Ryanair 737
Part of Ryanair's new schedule for the Cork based aircraft was no morning flight to Dublin on a Sunday. Does anyone know does the aircraft just sit at Cork airport until 10.10? Would it not make more sense for it to operate the Stansted morning flight instead of a Stansted aircraft. It would still be back in Cork in plenty of time for its 10.10 flight to Dublin!
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Ryanair and Cork
That's a good suggestion enr. Any deal for Ryanair at Cork will surely be out of the new terminal.
The cost of operating two terminals in an airport with an annual throughput of 3 million would be huge. I suspect that a lot of Ryanairs Shannon business is from the Cork area.
They probably have to sell people the seats at 1cent to entice them to travel to SNN. They would probably get a much higher yield if they flew from Cork and cut still undercut EI as long as the latter put their crews up in 4 Star hotels by the banks of the Lee.
Any significant expansion at Cork by FR would almost certainly see off many of the smaller low costs and Aer Arann would also come under huge pressure. Fair play to them for standing up to FR on Cork Dublin but it's fast becoming a fares war and I know who my money is on to win.
The cost of operating two terminals in an airport with an annual throughput of 3 million would be huge. I suspect that a lot of Ryanairs Shannon business is from the Cork area.
They probably have to sell people the seats at 1cent to entice them to travel to SNN. They would probably get a much higher yield if they flew from Cork and cut still undercut EI as long as the latter put their crews up in 4 Star hotels by the banks of the Lee.
Any significant expansion at Cork by FR would almost certainly see off many of the smaller low costs and Aer Arann would also come under huge pressure. Fair play to them for standing up to FR on Cork Dublin but it's fast becoming a fares war and I know who my money is on to win.
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Who is winning the Dublin - Cork battle, or is it done and dusted?
Arran are adding a seventh daily rotation from next week, having only just added their sixth a few weeks ago. Ryanair are trying to fill four 200-seaters each way per day, up from three during the summer, and selling at below the airport charges (the Cork Airport website says 12.65e per departing passenger, Ryanair start at 5 euro "including taxes and charges"). Have they grown the market so much that everybody's aircraft are filling (not implausible) and the business people are staying with Arran for the flexibility without denting Ryanairs growth?
Maybe it is only a matter of time before Ryanair throw a few more rotations at it to shove Arran away but could this be the first route where high frequency Ryanair and turboprops can live in harmony?
Arran are adding a seventh daily rotation from next week, having only just added their sixth a few weeks ago. Ryanair are trying to fill four 200-seaters each way per day, up from three during the summer, and selling at below the airport charges (the Cork Airport website says 12.65e per departing passenger, Ryanair start at 5 euro "including taxes and charges"). Have they grown the market so much that everybody's aircraft are filling (not implausible) and the business people are staying with Arran for the flexibility without denting Ryanairs growth?
Maybe it is only a matter of time before Ryanair throw a few more rotations at it to shove Arran away but could this be the first route where high frequency Ryanair and turboprops can live in harmony?