CORK - 4

[ryan2000]

New terminal

Unfortunately the design of the new terminal took no account of the radical changes made in the airline industry over the last 5 years.

On a more positive note the current EI booking engine for 2007 shows a need for 5 aircraft at Cork which could see a pilot base being established there. They must be paying The Clarion a small fortune for hotel beds at the moment.

[brian_dromey]

Ei @ Ork

First of all, aren't there are 6 self-service positions at ORK? In the old terminal there were three facing both directions, making 6. And I'm prety sure all of tehm came over? Maybe EI is currently painting the red eysores green?(they have at DUB), and very nice they look too!

As for a/c no.5 at ORK, how does the schedule show the need for five, at the moment a carbon copy of the 2005 schedule is in the booking engine,FCO/ALC still at 2x weekly. Its clearly only partly loaded yet, as destinations like ACE and TFS are in there, just using the winter schedules at the mo. That could be an indication that there will be schedule modifications, surely they would have just loaded last years schedule otherwise? With the current timetable for summer '07 there will be less capicity on almost every route than in winter 06/07!

It's pretty obvious that a fifth will join us at EICK, but is there any chance that EI will once again base an A321 @ ORK, I know they used to in the past, and only used it on LHR and charters. Surely the A321 would make sense on peak LHR services and to ACE/TFS/ALC, etc?

Guesses for new destinations? Definately some more UK? Double daily to AMS? More frequenct to CDG? Im still betting on CPH as well! Maybe a return to Milan as well.

[ryan2000]

5th Aircraft

Brian, the booking engine shows departures on SU and WE to WAW at 1530, FCO at 1500, LHR 1615, AMS 1710 and ALC at 1600. There also appears to be a better utilisation of exisiting aircraft eg ORK AMS ORK NCE ORK BCN ORK with later finishing times in the evening. At present 2 of the Cork based 320's do just 2 rotations per day which is very inefficent.

[brian_dromey]

ryan2000

WOOPS, sorry Ryan, I was looking at the Timetable, which shows a completely different story!

Yes two rotations is pretty poor, although if(hypothetically) you combine TFS/ACE with WAW on one airframe, there is not a whole lot you can do, except start earlier and finish later, squeezing in a quick hop over to the UK? I think EI needs more UK destinations to set airframe utilisation higher @ ORK. If you ever look at FR aircraft they generally fly to a mix of UK and EURO destinations throughout the day.

BTW have you seen the fares to WAW in July? over 580 rtn! Me think that the yield must be pretty good! a/c no five is a no brainer! It would appear thet yeild is pretty strong from ORK for summer '07.

[shannon55]

I'd say Glasgow is in with a shout as a new EI route from ORK. Given that Loganair/BA are off the route (not that that would have stopped EI if they'd wanted to operate this route in the past...A320 vs. SF340, only one winner there!).
It's also unlikely that RYR will launch a PIK service anytime soon either so EI would have the route to themselves.
Regarding a possible CPH route, have EI stopped their route from DUB to CPH?

[840]

They don't currently fly to Copenhagen from Dublin, although they have spoken about Scaninavia (although Denmark is not technically in Scandinavia ) as a potential area for expansion from Dublin.

If we see new Aer Lingus routes from Cork, I would expect one bucket and spade route and one Eastern Europe. Depending on aircraft utilisation, a quick hop to the UK (Manchester or Glasgow) or even western France (Rennes or Bordeaux) may also be possible.

I would expect any new routes to be destinations that are already served from Dublin.

[Charlie Roy]

840

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavia
Denmark is part of Scandinavia.

[johnrizzo2000]

I think Glasgow or Manchester, and Riga. Budapest, Geneva and LasPalmas would all work aswell! Maybe new routes might be operated by DUB aircraft, like DUB-GVA-ORK-GVA-DUB?

[brian_dromey]

Originally Posted by johnrizzo2000

I think Glasgow or Manchester, and Riga. Budapest, Geneva and LasPalmas would all work aswell! Maybe new routes might be operated by DUB aircraft, like DUB-GVA-ORK-GVA-DUB?

Well the 713/714 do originate in LHR(I think these flights would be DUB-LHR-ORK-LHR-DUB), so I guess W patterns are not out of the question. So 4.5 320s are possible for ORK next summer.

I think MAN could be attractive to EI, but bmiBaby keep moving the flight around, so the timings could be a bit tricky. If it were done correctly the two carriers would operate at either ends of the day, thus offering day returns and cutting down on competition. I suppose 2x daily to MAN is a bt ambitious with the 320s! I think BHX might go daily as well. GLA is possible too....I think if they want to work their a/c a little harder @ ORK, they'll have to bring more UK destinations on-line.

By the way is there any news on how the LBA route is doing with RE? I hope they keep it up, otherwise Ill have to go through LHR or DUB again.... to come home from uni! Do RE actually have a/c based at ORK or do they rotate the aircraft around, doing W's and such? I cna't really tell to be honest!

[840]

Originally Posted by Charlie Roy

840

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavia
Denmark is part of Scandinavia.

Although the same article says

"Geographically the Scandinavian peninsula includes mainland Sweden and mainland Norway, and also a part of Finland, while the Jutland Peninsula includes mainland Denmark and a small part of Germany (Denmark has not included any territory on the Scandinavian Peninsula since the middle of the 17th century)."

I always learned that Scandinavia refered to the peninsular so that Denmark was a Nordic country and not a Scandinavian one. Not that it matters, as I implied in my earlier post, I'm sure Aer Lingus are including it.

Originally Posted by brian_dromey

By the way is there any news on how the LBA route is doing with RE? I hope they keep it up, otherwise Ill have to go through LHR or DUB again.... to come home from uni! Do RE actually have a/c based at ORK or do they rotate the aircraft around, doing W's and such? I cna't really tell to be honest!

Aer Arann have 2 aircraft based in Cork with a number of routes operated by aircraft on W patterns also. Haven't any info on numbers on LBA, but it should be showing up on the CAA stats soon, so we'd get a better idea.

From this end, I'd wondered about how successful the route could be given the proximity to Manchester, but if you think it's easier to fly through LHR or DUB, then presumably the overland to Manchester option isn't as practical as it appears on a map.

[ryan2000]

Ei Cork Routes

They may well decide to compete on BUD, Kracow and Manchester. RIGA must be a strong possibility if they open a new route given that Dublin has 3 carriers flying there. There's a large Latvian population in Munster.

They would also get incentives to operate there.

Vienna was another City that they looked at two years ago. Dubrovnik could be a dark horse. Looks as if they mighn't stay on TFS for the Summer although Budget Travel have dropped their weekly Charter from Cork for next summer presumably in the expectation that EI would continue to fly there.

[brian_dromey]

Originally Posted by 840

I'd wondered about how successful the route could be given the proximity to Manchester, but if you think it's easier to fly through LHR or DUB, then presumably the overland to Manchester option isn't as practical as it appears on a map.

To be honest I personally mix and match, depending on which fares and timings suit best, now though three of four viable routs home are not FR operated, so the chances of being able to avoid them are quite good!
for example my next trip home is LBA-LHR-ORK and home ORK-MAN. But the next time is LBA-ORK-MAN, it just depends on which routing gives me a short travle time and a good fare.
I have done ORK-DUB-LBA on a sun, now THAT was a tight connection(50mins!!!), only for web check-in Id still be in DUB!

Originally Posted by ryan2000

... RIGA must be a strong possibility if they open a new route given that Dublin has 3 carriers flying there. There's a large Latvian population in Munster.

Vienna was another City that they looked at two years ago. Dubrovnik could be a dark horse. Looks as if they mighn't stay on TFS for the Summer although Budget Travel have dropped their weekly Charter from Cork for next summer presumably in the expectation that EI would continue to fly there.

Well wasn't there some noise about Air Baltic doing RGX? I would personally perfer to see someone like that operating these services, as it gives more choice and competition.(plus more liveries to look out at! )

Now that you say it TFS is likely to go, I think that it is just too long a sector for EI to operate from ORK, as it looks like they are quite keen to pack in as many destinations as possible this summer. Its more of a winter destination anyway, I feel? The only reason that ACE will stay is because Slattery's are using the service instead of chartering in an a/c. So the flights are maybe 30-50% full at this stage, and prob at quite a nice yield as well!

[fanatic1]

Eh, i'm pretty sure there is four. One for each aircraft.

[ryan2000]

Route speculation

Palma and Copenhagen have joined the list of possible new EI routes for 2007 at Cork.

The Spanish Airport is already served 6 times a week by various Charter operators so it would be no great surprise.

Copenhagen would be a bit surprising since EI do not serve it from Dublin.

However the airport marketing Dept. has been anxious to get a service to Scandanavia going as it is felt that it would generate new business rather than just dilute traffic on other routes.

EI might be the best prospect as SAS have never shown any interest in the provencial airports.

[840]

I haven't done this for a while, but these were the CAA provional stats for UK routes in September. Not all routes are listed

Belfast 3,504
Birmingham 10,991
Bristol 1,385
Cardiff 1,507
Edinburgh 4,177
Gatwick 31,309
Glasgow 831
Heathrow 34,200
Jersey 270
Liverpool 4,917
Manchester 6,830
Newcastle 3,045
Newquay 1,162
Southampton 1,385
Stansted 24,729

I think it demonstrates ho much Easyjet will be missed.

[MarkD]

re the DUB check-in kiosks above 1:1 - possibly due midday surge when a bunch of A330s are leaving?

[en2r]

Passenger Numbers

840

I think it demonstrates ho much Easyjet will be missed.[/quote]
I'm surprised how well Birmingham is doing, with passenger numbers almost half that of Stansted. Its interesting to see that Gatwick had significantly more passengers than Stansted. Newcastle seems to be doing alright, the route would surely justify more than the two flights a week planned for the winter, especially since Bmibaby are cutting their 5 times weekly run to Durham Tees Valley

[eick320]

Just for the record there are 6 ssk's at cork ... and before mol got involved with ei the plan was for the pilot base to open xmas of this year,

[840]

Originally Posted by eick320

Just for the record there are 6 ssk's at cork ...

I was going to post that very fact this morning.

Also, I don't think it's fair to say that there are a lot of unused machines in Dublin. Most times of day, you can go to Cork Airport and there is no shortage of machines. It's just during the early morning when all the flights are leaving at roughly the same time that there is a problem. I would imagine that the same thing occurs in Dublin at that time and as MarkD pointed out, there's also a period when the transatlantic flights are all leaving at roughly the same time.

Originally Posted by eick320

before mol got involved with ei the plan was for the pilot base to open xmas of this year,

I'd be a bit disturbed if the Ryanair bid changed EI's business plans. If/when it is successful they can take it into account, but until then, they need to run the business in the best way they see fit, assuming it continues as an independent company.

[840]

Some good news over on the Newcastle thread with Jet2 going to 4x weekly for next summer

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showpos...9&postcount=86