ISLE OF MAN
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CAA stats. show that STN had a LF around 40% in first full month (April). No idea whether that will be in line with expectations, at this stage. Curiously though, IOM-MAN is down for the first time in over a year, and this may well be related to the poor schedule now on offer by BE, as they inter-work MAN with STN.
I suspect that STN is part of a plan to disrupt the BA/Eastern operation on IOM-LCY, by taking PAX from that route and forcing BA away. BE will then consolidate LCY and STN, into their LCY hub, will inherit the business traffic and roll in enough leisure to make a go of LCY.
CAA numbers show that IOM-LCY is down c20% in April, and I understand that their underwriting has now expired, so BE might just pull this one off.
EZY's IOM-LGW down too, despite more seats overall. The EZY856, which doesn't get to LGW until after 22.00, is a good example of of what Tinwald is talking about, and from what I have seen, numbers on this are well down, so perhaps the travelling public are starting to vote with their feet.
I suspect that STN is part of a plan to disrupt the BA/Eastern operation on IOM-LCY, by taking PAX from that route and forcing BA away. BE will then consolidate LCY and STN, into their LCY hub, will inherit the business traffic and roll in enough leisure to make a go of LCY.
CAA numbers show that IOM-LCY is down c20% in April, and I understand that their underwriting has now expired, so BE might just pull this one off.
EZY's IOM-LGW down too, despite more seats overall. The EZY856, which doesn't get to LGW until after 22.00, is a good example of of what Tinwald is talking about, and from what I have seen, numbers on this are well down, so perhaps the travelling public are starting to vote with their feet.
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Don't dispute that Friday is busy, but on other evenings it is much less so. Overall LF on LGW is 67% from 78% in April 2014, which suggests that the competition from BE is biting a little.
From conversations I have had, more and more people are finding the overall EZY experience less and less palatable. For such a short flight, is it worth putting up with, poor time-keeping and regular delays; a painfully slow boarding and departure experience at IOM; long, slow, bus rides, and consequent waits for the slowest passengers at LGW; transferring terminals to get the train; arriving in London close to midnight. Not a lot of fun.
I'll be giving STN a go in couple of weeks, and if it works OK, it'll be bye-bye to easyJet, for me.
From conversations I have had, more and more people are finding the overall EZY experience less and less palatable. For such a short flight, is it worth putting up with, poor time-keeping and regular delays; a painfully slow boarding and departure experience at IOM; long, slow, bus rides, and consequent waits for the slowest passengers at LGW; transferring terminals to get the train; arriving in London close to midnight. Not a lot of fun.
I'll be giving STN a go in couple of weeks, and if it works OK, it'll be bye-bye to easyJet, for me.
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Tony your plan on flybe forcing BA out of IOM-LCY is predicated on flybe having deeper pockets than BA. Given they couldn't afford to run INV-LCY into one peak season, I think that analysis is flawed.
Is anyone making money here?
Is anyone making money here?
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If the easyjet Gatwick exprience is as bad as you say why do you think flybe are not doing better on STN ?
In respect of the late eveing easyjet flights, there is of course a schedule change in October.
In respect of the late eveing easyjet flights, there is of course a schedule change in October.
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My experience over the last 12 months with Easyjet on the evening rotation to/from LGW pretty well matches what tonyq says. Not a single trip of mine was on time and if anything the earlier schedule in the winter had an even worse otp than the current one.
As soon as practicable I changed to STN which overall was a much better experience with, so far, flights early or on time, the worst part is the woeful security at STN. Hopefully this option will still be around come the winter.
I very rarely use LCY due to the cost as I dont think it is worth anything like the high premium demanded.
As soon as practicable I changed to STN which overall was a much better experience with, so far, flights early or on time, the worst part is the woeful security at STN. Hopefully this option will still be around come the winter.
I very rarely use LCY due to the cost as I dont think it is worth anything like the high premium demanded.
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I've used the IOM-STN a couple of times recently, and can't fault the service BE offer ---- at least when the aircraft is operational and has not gone tech, although I never could understand two IOM flights departing STN at 16:00 and then again at 19:20. The biggest problem is undoubtedly STN itself. With MAG and Ryanair putting their heads together, perhaps the results are predictable. As others have said, the security system is abominable. On the latest trip, one of their people started up with some smart ar*e remarks aimed at the missus. When I challenged him, he shut up like a clam and walked away. The pre-security terminal is also a shambles. No seating and no adequate facilities ---- especially when you are forced to wait hours for the next flight after yours is cancelled. A thoroughly unpleasant experience, and I no doubt will in the future be using LCY again instead. A pity really.
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If I recall Manx2 did IOM STN for a stint too. Though on a LET 10!!
Though I cannot comment on flying between IOM and STN, I have views on the said London airports and airlines. I used to use STN a lot but I don't anymore. Primarily as many times I've arrived at STN on a weekend and the train is cancelled due to engineering works and ticket I pre booked account allowed on bus service. Coming back up from LPL Street same story one Sunday and the replacement bus must had 300 people queuing. I was totally last minute arriving at STN... That won't happen again. I actually wouldn't have minded if the train company had been honest and advised at time of booking online of these 'planned engineering work's.
The prices are often as expensive on the STN express as my plane ticket... And in net terms of cost the total to get to STN is most expensive of all the London airports.
EasyJet I always find superb, and very punctual.
But at the IOM I accept the schedule is not the most business orientated. However, fair to say that easyJet started IOM when Flybe had a good business schedule... Their focus was on the leisure passenger in the main, and with a lack of morning schedules into LGW and a need for an overnighter at IOM, it would appear that they will best see the opportunity for leisure passengers...
They will stick around, and BA unlikely to bow out to BE, I think STN will be canned, I'd give it another season at best. BE are revamping the winter schedule before it is issued, the best IOM can expect is that STN gets maintained.
Though I cannot comment on flying between IOM and STN, I have views on the said London airports and airlines. I used to use STN a lot but I don't anymore. Primarily as many times I've arrived at STN on a weekend and the train is cancelled due to engineering works and ticket I pre booked account allowed on bus service. Coming back up from LPL Street same story one Sunday and the replacement bus must had 300 people queuing. I was totally last minute arriving at STN... That won't happen again. I actually wouldn't have minded if the train company had been honest and advised at time of booking online of these 'planned engineering work's.
The prices are often as expensive on the STN express as my plane ticket... And in net terms of cost the total to get to STN is most expensive of all the London airports.
EasyJet I always find superb, and very punctual.
But at the IOM I accept the schedule is not the most business orientated. However, fair to say that easyJet started IOM when Flybe had a good business schedule... Their focus was on the leisure passenger in the main, and with a lack of morning schedules into LGW and a need for an overnighter at IOM, it would appear that they will best see the opportunity for leisure passengers...
They will stick around, and BA unlikely to bow out to BE, I think STN will be canned, I'd give it another season at best. BE are revamping the winter schedule before it is issued, the best IOM can expect is that STN gets maintained.
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manx crab said:
I'm still using LCY and am willing to pay the premium. I can get into Central London on DLR/tube for less than £4 as against the cost of "express" services plus taxi/tube. That erodes the premium a little bit. I have at least three options to get to and from LCY in the event of strikes/engineering works/ congestion etc. I can also use otherwise useless Avios to reduce the cost further. And lastly the terminal experience at LCY is good despite the occasional crowds. Mind you the cost of taking my family of four can be eye watering.
If there was no LCY option I'd probably use IOM-BHX rather than STN - the train to Euston is almost as quick (quicker probably if you include the additional journey from Liverpool Street to Central London) and the costs not that dissimilar.
I would hope that BACF are now getting the yield they require from the current ticket price. Incidentally the price jumps considerably if you book a connecting business class flight; yet the service is identical. I sometimes take that on the chin as with it comes security as regards rebooking on the connection in the event of cancellation or delay. It's also cheaper than on overnight stay....just!
I very rarely use LCY due to the cost as I dont think it is worth anything like the high premium demanded.
If there was no LCY option I'd probably use IOM-BHX rather than STN - the train to Euston is almost as quick (quicker probably if you include the additional journey from Liverpool Street to Central London) and the costs not that dissimilar.
I would hope that BACF are now getting the yield they require from the current ticket price. Incidentally the price jumps considerably if you book a connecting business class flight; yet the service is identical. I sometimes take that on the chin as with it comes security as regards rebooking on the connection in the event of cancellation or delay. It's also cheaper than on overnight stay....just!
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I think the fact the LGW and LCY numbers went downhill as soon as a relatively small operation like IOMSTN began shows how limited in size the IOMLON market is. Given the dwindling number of independent airlines operating smaller aircraft, the island has to consider itself lucky with what it has at this point until a local airline with based aircraft sees the light of day again (if ever).
The only alternative I see in the current airline industry is someone like VLM setting up shop at IOM like they have done at WAT. IOMLTN in addition to IOMLGW might be an option once BE and BA have pulled their London services. I don't think the market will support three LON routes as long as one of the airports is served by a LCC with 300 seats or so daily.
The only alternative I see in the current airline industry is someone like VLM setting up shop at IOM like they have done at WAT. IOMLTN in addition to IOMLGW might be an option once BE and BA have pulled their London services. I don't think the market will support three LON routes as long as one of the airports is served by a LCC with 300 seats or so daily.
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Luton is a very interesting suggestion. Once upon a time the daily Manx Airlines route to Luton was the value offering on a daily service.
Given the fact that there are actually limited airlines for a service ex London to the IOM, easyJet would be unlikely to face a new entrant on LGW IOM if they did decide to move the service to Luton. The interesting thing would be with a similar service what would the numbers be like.. One would assume that arriving at LGW a lot would be passengers flying onwards... This may not be the case and I suspect there is little statistics available on this...?
Given the fact that there are actually limited airlines for a service ex London to the IOM, easyJet would be unlikely to face a new entrant on LGW IOM if they did decide to move the service to Luton. The interesting thing would be with a similar service what would the numbers be like.. One would assume that arriving at LGW a lot would be passengers flying onwards... This may not be the case and I suspect there is little statistics available on this...?
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People should look at the facts on this forum. Take a look at the arrival and departure times for the EZY service from IOM to GTW. It is invariably late by up to an an hour.
Take a look at the service schedule of the LCY IOM route serviced by BACF it is almost always ON TIME!
Plus at least these guys are prepared to offer the island a decent 3 times a day service with a flight leaving the island at 0700 allowing for a full days business and offers free refreshments who else does that?????????? And STN takes forever to get to and through security.
We should be encouraging more people to use the BA service not talking it down!
Take a look at the service schedule of the LCY IOM route serviced by BACF it is almost always ON TIME!
Plus at least these guys are prepared to offer the island a decent 3 times a day service with a flight leaving the island at 0700 allowing for a full days business and offers free refreshments who else does that?????????? And STN takes forever to get to and through security.
We should be encouraging more people to use the BA service not talking it down!
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keep your eye on this:
UK Airport Statistics | Aviation Intelligence | About the CAA
UK Airport Statistics | Aviation Intelligence | About the CAA
Brunel to Concorde
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easyJet IOM-BRS
The route only started on 19 April so April's passenger figures relate to a small sample. The CAA tells us that 625 passengers used the route in April, an average load of 44.6, load factor 28.6% on the 156-seat A 319.
Anecdotal evidence suggest that May is seeing higher loads with some sectors around the 100 mark (though almost certainly a minority), but I can't think that many will expect anything like the sort of load factors easyJet normally gets on its BRS routes, even when the route becomes mature.
The route itself was a surprise to some BRS watchers given the size of easyJet's aircraft and the fact that it's supposed to run at 4 x weekly throughout the year.
The previous operator was Flybe with Q 400s (3/4 x weekly) that typically managed monthly average loads in the 30s. Before that it was Eastern J41s for several years, and before that Jersey European although I believe that they had morphed into Flybe by the time they ceased the route around 2004, albeit they tried again as Flybe several years later after Eastern pulled out.
Anecdotal evidence suggest that May is seeing higher loads with some sectors around the 100 mark (though almost certainly a minority), but I can't think that many will expect anything like the sort of load factors easyJet normally gets on its BRS routes, even when the route becomes mature.
The route itself was a surprise to some BRS watchers given the size of easyJet's aircraft and the fact that it's supposed to run at 4 x weekly throughout the year.
The previous operator was Flybe with Q 400s (3/4 x weekly) that typically managed monthly average loads in the 30s. Before that it was Eastern J41s for several years, and before that Jersey European although I believe that they had morphed into Flybe by the time they ceased the route around 2004, albeit they tried again as Flybe several years later after Eastern pulled out.
Last edited by MerchantVenturer; 1st Jun 2015 at 10:22. Reason: Flybe - should have stated monthly average loads, not load factors
Yes, I must say that Bristol to IOM is a surprising route for EZY to operate, as far as I am concerned. However, I do admit that I do not have any actual knowledge of the market !
Hope that the loads improve over the coming weeks & that the route proves successful.
Hope that the loads improve over the coming weeks & that the route proves successful.
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Merchant-Venturer Re Bristol – my observations and analysis confirm your numbers. It is a very odd route for EasyJet, as there is very little natural traffic between IOM and that part of England (I mean historical tourist links, commercial business or VFR) in either direction, and, in the past the route has attracted only penny numbers with FlyBe or Eastern. Good luck to them. One hopes that with the irregular schedule and frequency, it won’t be too damaging to the established Gloucester and BHX routes.
IOMX –welcome to the discussion. Let’s look at some other facts here, as I’m not sure that yours actually contained very many, despite your opening gambit!
Whilst no-one is disputing that BA have a very nice product, good frequency and LCY is a great airport, they have already pulled off the route once before, and only came back to it with some form of financial under-writing from an online betting organisation. So let’s not pretend that there is any form of philanthropy, or great passion to serve the IOM here, on the part of BA.
With entry level fares roughly 3 times those on LGW and STN, this is way above many passengers’ price point, and the service will only ever be accessible to a small proportion of the overall IOM-LON travelling public.
It is my understanding that the financial support has now ended, and they carried 22% fewer passengers in April 2015 than April 2014, the first full month that BE were on STN, with a similar schedule and much lower fares, so it seems likely that decision time is coming, again.
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/80/airport_data_prov/201504/April_2015_Provisional_Domestic_Routes.pdf
BTW, it is totally untrue to say that the easyJet service is ‘invariably an hour late’. I am not a big fan of easyJet, but the morning rotation is generally very punctual; the evening much less so. Take a look here, if you don’t believe me.
http://www.flightstats.com/go/FlightRating/flightRatingByRoute.do
Re Luton – I am not sure that anyone has ever made money on IOM-LTN; it was always a bit of an off-peak filler. I agree that resurrecting it might have been a better bet than STN, but clearly FlyBe’s deal with MAG dictated their STN effort. With 1400+ seats daily in the IOM-LON market right now, it would be madness for anyone to try LTN, at this point in time.
Turning to the wider IOM-LON market debate, yes, the market is finite and nowhere near as elastic as the IOM-Northwest market, where ferry passengers are part of the target market. My personal view is that FlyBe went OTT with three daily to STN (and wrecked their own MAN schedule in the process) and that x 2 (morning and evening) would be more sensible. If their current passenger levels could be sustained over just those two rotations, it would lift the LF to c60%, and just another 10% uplift would take them close to their network average.That sounds feasible, with a little effort. There has been very little marketing and publicity on the Island and no attempt to sell the schedule which is much more balanced and attractive than easyJet’s.
I suspect that this is a very tricky market for the operators, as the reasons for travel, and the ultimate destination vary greatly, and people will change their behaviour, and routing, for numerous reasons. If I am going to London for weekend, then I will considerLGW, LCY and STN; if I am connecting abroad, then it is probably LGW (although MAN often works). I know there are lots of connections from STN with FR, but I haven’t managed to make that work, so far.
What is clear though, is that there is significant over-supply right now, and something has to give. There are approx. 36,000 seats available each month, and I think (off the top of my head) that in the halcyon days of FlyBe on LGW and LTN and BA on LCY the overall market was never greater than around 21-22,000.
IOMX –welcome to the discussion. Let’s look at some other facts here, as I’m not sure that yours actually contained very many, despite your opening gambit!
Whilst no-one is disputing that BA have a very nice product, good frequency and LCY is a great airport, they have already pulled off the route once before, and only came back to it with some form of financial under-writing from an online betting organisation. So let’s not pretend that there is any form of philanthropy, or great passion to serve the IOM here, on the part of BA.
With entry level fares roughly 3 times those on LGW and STN, this is way above many passengers’ price point, and the service will only ever be accessible to a small proportion of the overall IOM-LON travelling public.
It is my understanding that the financial support has now ended, and they carried 22% fewer passengers in April 2015 than April 2014, the first full month that BE were on STN, with a similar schedule and much lower fares, so it seems likely that decision time is coming, again.
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/80/airport_data_prov/201504/April_2015_Provisional_Domestic_Routes.pdf
BTW, it is totally untrue to say that the easyJet service is ‘invariably an hour late’. I am not a big fan of easyJet, but the morning rotation is generally very punctual; the evening much less so. Take a look here, if you don’t believe me.
http://www.flightstats.com/go/FlightRating/flightRatingByRoute.do
Re Luton – I am not sure that anyone has ever made money on IOM-LTN; it was always a bit of an off-peak filler. I agree that resurrecting it might have been a better bet than STN, but clearly FlyBe’s deal with MAG dictated their STN effort. With 1400+ seats daily in the IOM-LON market right now, it would be madness for anyone to try LTN, at this point in time.
Turning to the wider IOM-LON market debate, yes, the market is finite and nowhere near as elastic as the IOM-Northwest market, where ferry passengers are part of the target market. My personal view is that FlyBe went OTT with three daily to STN (and wrecked their own MAN schedule in the process) and that x 2 (morning and evening) would be more sensible. If their current passenger levels could be sustained over just those two rotations, it would lift the LF to c60%, and just another 10% uplift would take them close to their network average.That sounds feasible, with a little effort. There has been very little marketing and publicity on the Island and no attempt to sell the schedule which is much more balanced and attractive than easyJet’s.
I suspect that this is a very tricky market for the operators, as the reasons for travel, and the ultimate destination vary greatly, and people will change their behaviour, and routing, for numerous reasons. If I am going to London for weekend, then I will considerLGW, LCY and STN; if I am connecting abroad, then it is probably LGW (although MAN often works). I know there are lots of connections from STN with FR, but I haven’t managed to make that work, so far.
What is clear though, is that there is significant over-supply right now, and something has to give. There are approx. 36,000 seats available each month, and I think (off the top of my head) that in the halcyon days of FlyBe on LGW and LTN and BA on LCY the overall market was never greater than around 21-22,000.
Last edited by Tonyq; 1st Jun 2015 at 12:53.