Aer Lingus - 2
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The Indo managed to predict this last Thursday
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independe...issue_id=14749
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independe...issue_id=14749
When it was revealed that O'Brien had recently registered a tax residency in Malta, Michael O'Leary was quick out of the traps with an ad (see illustration) taking the mick out of the telecoms billionaire.
Insiders say that O'Brien was very, very sore at the jibe.
Is he so angry that he'll raid the coin jar next to his bed and snap up '3pc or 4pc' of Aer Lingus himself?
O'Leary would then have to call and ask for forgiveness (and the shares).
Now that really would be a conversation worth hearing.
Insiders say that O'Brien was very, very sore at the jibe.
Is he so angry that he'll raid the coin jar next to his bed and snap up '3pc or 4pc' of Aer Lingus himself?
O'Leary would then have to call and ask for forgiveness (and the shares).
Now that really would be a conversation worth hearing.
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Called today to recommend a friend to join Ryanair as a Captain and was told FR was now stopping hiring Captains until next March. Could it be true?
I know they have stopped taking FO's until March. What has happened? Are FR cancelling deliveries?
I know they have stopped taking FO's until March. What has happened? Are FR cancelling deliveries?
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Denis O'Brien is a shrewd businessman and wouldn't be paying out that kind of money because of some fit of pique.
There are three reasons he may have made this investment
There are three reasons he may have made this investment
- Because he anticipates a higher Ryanair bid and thinks he can make a profit fro this
- Because he sees Aer Lingus as a good medium-term investment
- Because he thinks that the companies share price doesn't reflect its the difference between its assets and liabilities and there is money to be made by breaking it up
Jolly Green Giant
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840, you obviously have no clue about how big the ego's are of some businessmen here in Ireland. You only have to look at property developer Sean Dunne to see that in his purchase of the land at Jury's.
This of course is about Ego and this has now become a pathetic game between two of the biggest ego's you will ever come across. Add in the Unions, the Government, the Aer Lingus management also to that mix and it's a boiling pot of ego and testostrone that has no reason or attachment to reality.
It's pathetic.
This of course is about Ego and this has now become a pathetic game between two of the biggest ego's you will ever come across. Add in the Unions, the Government, the Aer Lingus management also to that mix and it's a boiling pot of ego and testostrone that has no reason or attachment to reality.
It's pathetic.
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Motives
Of course O Brien might have another motive
Hi Bertie
I have x% of Aer lingus and can help you out of a hole
Now, you know that small matter of Mr Mahon and his inquries
Ah, say no more Bertie, of course I will
Bye
Hi Bertie
I have x% of Aer lingus and can help you out of a hole
Now, you know that small matter of Mr Mahon and his inquries
Ah, say no more Bertie, of course I will
Bye
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I think the first motive is most likely, if it's just personal satisfaction he's after. Buy at €2.90 (or whatever) and get your opponent to buy at €3.5.
With the recent problems Bertie has had, he'll steer well clear of any behind the scenes deals.
What concerns me most of all is that, whatever people say of MOL, he's the only one who has presented anything close to a coherent vision of EI's future, whether you agree with it (or even believe it or not); it's more than a little concerning that his vision of EI is more exciting than DM's. I think the big concern I would have about the "stop FR" motive of EI, unions, etc is that it doesn't seem to go further than that. There are HUGE opportunities for EI out there, particularly on long haul, once the stopover nonsense is out of the way, but the danger is that once the stopover is out of the way, the American heavy guns - CO, DL, AA, US etc - will be throwing major capacity our way. If this happens, can EI on its own stand up to it? Is 12-14 787s going to be enough? It's not just the threat, but the opportunities which are of concern, and this is why I raised the issue of pre-clearance and customs issues last week (much the moderators' chagrin!).
I don't mean to cause offence to anyone in what I say and please don't take any, but given the choice, I'd much rather see EI and FR join forces (even if only on long haul) to take full advantage of this, than to see it fall to the US carriers; that's an unnecessary and avoidable outcome and it can be avoided, but only if EI puts pride aside.
Given the Taoiseach's recent success in bringing the DUP and SF together (despite the hitches), surely it would be a good idea for the govt to convene meetings of all the interested parties - IALPA, SIPTU, Ryanair (yes, in the same room), DO'B etc, so that a workable long term plan can be developed; the danger of a perception that there's fighting in the cockpit with no one flying the plane is appropriate here. Let's look beyond just "stopping FR" and make sure EI is well positioned for the opportunities ahead.
With the recent problems Bertie has had, he'll steer well clear of any behind the scenes deals.
What concerns me most of all is that, whatever people say of MOL, he's the only one who has presented anything close to a coherent vision of EI's future, whether you agree with it (or even believe it or not); it's more than a little concerning that his vision of EI is more exciting than DM's. I think the big concern I would have about the "stop FR" motive of EI, unions, etc is that it doesn't seem to go further than that. There are HUGE opportunities for EI out there, particularly on long haul, once the stopover nonsense is out of the way, but the danger is that once the stopover is out of the way, the American heavy guns - CO, DL, AA, US etc - will be throwing major capacity our way. If this happens, can EI on its own stand up to it? Is 12-14 787s going to be enough? It's not just the threat, but the opportunities which are of concern, and this is why I raised the issue of pre-clearance and customs issues last week (much the moderators' chagrin!).
I don't mean to cause offence to anyone in what I say and please don't take any, but given the choice, I'd much rather see EI and FR join forces (even if only on long haul) to take full advantage of this, than to see it fall to the US carriers; that's an unnecessary and avoidable outcome and it can be avoided, but only if EI puts pride aside.
Given the Taoiseach's recent success in bringing the DUP and SF together (despite the hitches), surely it would be a good idea for the govt to convene meetings of all the interested parties - IALPA, SIPTU, Ryanair (yes, in the same room), DO'B etc, so that a workable long term plan can be developed; the danger of a perception that there's fighting in the cockpit with no one flying the plane is appropriate here. Let's look beyond just "stopping FR" and make sure EI is well positioned for the opportunities ahead.
Jolly Green Giant
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We're in dangerous waters here there is no doubt about it. This company was floated by the Government and whatever the unions say, their members in AL were behind it because they made a few bucks. The decision was made, you float a company, it is open to people buying or selling it's shares,
it's not very complicated really. And just because it's FR we now have this collective squeal from the usual suspects. The SIPTU mob (AKA "Burke's Mafia" in the old days), the bearded semi-state loons, the pension chasers in AL, the old Aer Rianta golden circle still in the DAA, the rabble that tried to fight FR long ago and stop them competing with AL (and BA for that matter). Remember folks the days of 3 million passengers? Empty aprons for the majority of the day, air fares out of reach of ordinary citizens, no development allowed at or around the airport?
Basically a big socialist grip on the main access point on this island.
It maybe different today, the airport is bursting and still the bearded loons cry foul if someone comes along and actually offers to build a new terminal out of their own goddamn pocket!
It's like Disneyland out there, always was and always will be as long as those Larkinite loons still cling onto power. Laughable to hear of them as well crying for a white knight like Emirates to swoop down and actually buy Aer Lingus!!!
SIPTU's heartfelt concern for competition is really touching. I presume they will now call for the deregulation of the electricity sector and open up the ESB to badly needed competition? Of course not, their workers on
140,000 grand a year at poolbeg would have a meltdown. how about Dublin Bus then? Irish Rail????
it's not very complicated really. And just because it's FR we now have this collective squeal from the usual suspects. The SIPTU mob (AKA "Burke's Mafia" in the old days), the bearded semi-state loons, the pension chasers in AL, the old Aer Rianta golden circle still in the DAA, the rabble that tried to fight FR long ago and stop them competing with AL (and BA for that matter). Remember folks the days of 3 million passengers? Empty aprons for the majority of the day, air fares out of reach of ordinary citizens, no development allowed at or around the airport?
Basically a big socialist grip on the main access point on this island.
It maybe different today, the airport is bursting and still the bearded loons cry foul if someone comes along and actually offers to build a new terminal out of their own goddamn pocket!
It's like Disneyland out there, always was and always will be as long as those Larkinite loons still cling onto power. Laughable to hear of them as well crying for a white knight like Emirates to swoop down and actually buy Aer Lingus!!!
SIPTU's heartfelt concern for competition is really touching. I presume they will now call for the deregulation of the electricity sector and open up the ESB to badly needed competition? Of course not, their workers on
140,000 grand a year at poolbeg would have a meltdown. how about Dublin Bus then? Irish Rail????
Last edited by OneWorld22; 18th Oct 2006 at 17:14.
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Bullseye from OneWorld22! Yes.
The Mrs and I spent about 5 hours at DUB waiting for a connecting flight last Friday. It was more than 5 years since my last visit to Dublin Airport and the airport now has so much easy success and money that headaches at Cork and Shannon can be sidelined indefinitely. Dublin is where it is all at to be sure at the Irish airports. Aer Lingus, Ryanair and the Dublin Airport Authority are making money hand over fist. No wonder Michael O'Leary wants to get a hold of Aer Lingus. I would bet he would like to takeover the DAA as well? There is little sentiment, it has to be all about maxing out profits.
The Aer Rianta golden circle still in the DAA. Nice one, OW22! You know your stuff and have been around the block all right. I salute you.
The Mrs and I spent about 5 hours at DUB waiting for a connecting flight last Friday. It was more than 5 years since my last visit to Dublin Airport and the airport now has so much easy success and money that headaches at Cork and Shannon can be sidelined indefinitely. Dublin is where it is all at to be sure at the Irish airports. Aer Lingus, Ryanair and the Dublin Airport Authority are making money hand over fist. No wonder Michael O'Leary wants to get a hold of Aer Lingus. I would bet he would like to takeover the DAA as well? There is little sentiment, it has to be all about maxing out profits.
The Aer Rianta golden circle still in the DAA. Nice one, OW22! You know your stuff and have been around the block all right. I salute you.
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No progress on Open Skies ...
Interesting this, because with all the kerfuffle about EI and FR, the minister saw fit not to say anything about this publicly; the fact is that his trip to Europe last week to try and get progress on US access and approval for direct negotiations with the US wasn't successful. Here's the PQ ...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
*To ask the Minister for Transport the status of the transitional
Ireland US aviation agreement and the EU US Open Skies talks; if these
matters were discussed at the recent Council of Ministers meeting; the
outcome of these talks; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
- Olivia
Mitchell.
* For WRITTEN answer on Tuesday, 17th October, 2006.
Ref No: 33284/06
Answered by the Minister for
Transport
(Martin
Cullen)
REPLY
I can confirm that the EU US Open Skies deal was discussed at the
Transport Council on 12 October 2006. The Council underlined the
importance it attaches to the conclusion of the EU US air
transport agreement. It reaffirmed its unanimous satisfaction with the
text of the draft agreement negotiated in November 2005 but
regretted the further delay in the US position on the ownership and
control issue.
The Council requested the Commission to continue its efforts, on the
basis of further contacts with the United States to secure a
satisfactory and balanced outcome with the necessary safeguards,
including the transitional provisions, with a view to a decision at
the December Transport Council.
This would fulfill the commitments set out in the conclusion of the
June
2006 EU US Summit in which both parties reaffirmed the commitment to
reach agreement by the end of the year.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's all well and good, if it happens by year end - which many observers think is unlikely. BA, of course, is anxious to delay and obstruct the process as much as possible, since it clearly doesn't want more competition on t/a routes out of LHR. That said, how would it have POSSIBLY affected the EU, any airline competitors and indeed, the resolution of sticking points over EU/US Open Skies, if Ireland was given the go ahead to move ahead to relax the stopover, as last November's deal anticipated?
If the O/S deal doesn't go ahead by the end of the year, there's not going to be a lot of time for EI to adjust, particularly with schedules for two new acft to plan, and indeed other long haul routes to market and schedule, if it can't expand in the US. Really, we should have insisted on getting this last week.
Interesting this, because with all the kerfuffle about EI and FR, the minister saw fit not to say anything about this publicly; the fact is that his trip to Europe last week to try and get progress on US access and approval for direct negotiations with the US wasn't successful. Here's the PQ ...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
*To ask the Minister for Transport the status of the transitional
Ireland US aviation agreement and the EU US Open Skies talks; if these
matters were discussed at the recent Council of Ministers meeting; the
outcome of these talks; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
- Olivia
Mitchell.
* For WRITTEN answer on Tuesday, 17th October, 2006.
Ref No: 33284/06
Answered by the Minister for
Transport
(Martin
Cullen)
REPLY
I can confirm that the EU US Open Skies deal was discussed at the
Transport Council on 12 October 2006. The Council underlined the
importance it attaches to the conclusion of the EU US air
transport agreement. It reaffirmed its unanimous satisfaction with the
text of the draft agreement negotiated in November 2005 but
regretted the further delay in the US position on the ownership and
control issue.
The Council requested the Commission to continue its efforts, on the
basis of further contacts with the United States to secure a
satisfactory and balanced outcome with the necessary safeguards,
including the transitional provisions, with a view to a decision at
the December Transport Council.
This would fulfill the commitments set out in the conclusion of the
June
2006 EU US Summit in which both parties reaffirmed the commitment to
reach agreement by the end of the year.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's all well and good, if it happens by year end - which many observers think is unlikely. BA, of course, is anxious to delay and obstruct the process as much as possible, since it clearly doesn't want more competition on t/a routes out of LHR. That said, how would it have POSSIBLY affected the EU, any airline competitors and indeed, the resolution of sticking points over EU/US Open Skies, if Ireland was given the go ahead to move ahead to relax the stopover, as last November's deal anticipated?
If the O/S deal doesn't go ahead by the end of the year, there's not going to be a lot of time for EI to adjust, particularly with schedules for two new acft to plan, and indeed other long haul routes to market and schedule, if it can't expand in the US. Really, we should have insisted on getting this last week.
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"Further cuts needed at Aer Lingus" - CEO
Taken from RTE News
Further cuts needed at Aer Lingus - CEO
Further cuts needed at Aer Lingus - CEO
Management at Aer Lingus has said that further job losses and cost-cutting will be needed at the company, regardless of the outcome of the Ryanair takeover bid.
The position was outlined to staff representatives last night by the Aer Lingus Chief Executive, Dermot Mannion. Speaking on RTÉ Radio's Morning Ireland, Michael Halpenny of SIPTU said his union had been unaware of the latest management announcement and he had sought a meeting with Mr Mannion this morning.
Last night's meeting at the airline's head office was told that major changes were required, and if they were not delivered then the airline could once again find itself in crisis.
The position was outlined to staff representatives last night by the Aer Lingus Chief Executive, Dermot Mannion. Speaking on RTÉ Radio's Morning Ireland, Michael Halpenny of SIPTU said his union had been unaware of the latest management announcement and he had sought a meeting with Mr Mannion this morning.
Last night's meeting at the airline's head office was told that major changes were required, and if they were not delivered then the airline could once again find itself in crisis.
Mr Mannion said existing agreements would have to be re-examined, cost-cutting exercises would be implemented and there would be significant job losses.
It is understood Aer Lingus' catering section and its sales and marketing operations in the United States will come under scrutiny in a review of the airline's operations.
There are fears that that the proposed measures could lead to serious industrial unrest at the recently-floated airline.
It is understood Aer Lingus' catering section and its sales and marketing operations in the United States will come under scrutiny in a review of the airline's operations.
There are fears that that the proposed measures could lead to serious industrial unrest at the recently-floated airline.
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Isn't it strange also, that just as the prospect of an FR takeover of EI arises, there seems to be a door for EI employees to take, to cash in their shares in the event of a takeover, with the added incentive of whatever tax deal FR works out?
Is DM/EI walking into a trap here? MO'L has clearly cottoned on to this ...
http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusin...10007814.shtml
Alternatively, could it be that DM has finally tumbled to the realisation that EI's best hope of success on t/a routes - even when the stopover ratio is reduced - is to have FR on board as a partner? When the ratio is relaxed, the US carriers will make life very hard for EI, not just in the knowledge that EI might be leaning towards FR - something which they don't want to see happen, but also because if they can operate 3 flights to DUB for every 1 to SNN, they'd be mad not to. Whatever way you cut it, the intensity of competition on t/a routes is likely to increase drastically and maybe EI realises that the 12-14 acft it has been talking of won't be nearly enough - not just for survival, but to take advantage of the major opportunities ahead - but in order to take full advantage, EI needs the help of FR.
I suspect that DM is playing a very clever game; it could, of course, be a very serious error, but I'd like to give him the benefit of doubt ...
Is DM/EI walking into a trap here? MO'L has clearly cottoned on to this ...
http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusin...10007814.shtml
Alternatively, could it be that DM has finally tumbled to the realisation that EI's best hope of success on t/a routes - even when the stopover ratio is reduced - is to have FR on board as a partner? When the ratio is relaxed, the US carriers will make life very hard for EI, not just in the knowledge that EI might be leaning towards FR - something which they don't want to see happen, but also because if they can operate 3 flights to DUB for every 1 to SNN, they'd be mad not to. Whatever way you cut it, the intensity of competition on t/a routes is likely to increase drastically and maybe EI realises that the 12-14 acft it has been talking of won't be nearly enough - not just for survival, but to take advantage of the major opportunities ahead - but in order to take full advantage, EI needs the help of FR.
I suspect that DM is playing a very clever game; it could, of course, be a very serious error, but I'd like to give him the benefit of doubt ...
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What a good move by RYR pilots get as many as you can, before they go up in price then sell them to MOL for a profit, make a bit of cash 
.
what other reason is there?
.what other reason is there?
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But the thing is, MOL wont stop here if the takeover falls through,
he wont lose money or face, he will go head to head with EI and I would not put it past him to buy another airline or even just aircraft for longhaul and go head to head on all routes, EI will become a tiny airline with high prices and tiny routes its not what I want but its what MOL wants and he normaly gets what he wants. So if I worked for EI I would be thinking, do I
want to work for a timy airline that will be cutting routes and jobs or would I want to work for an airline that announces new routes almost every month and buys new a/c 3x a year.
he wont lose money or face, he will go head to head with EI and I would not put it past him to buy another airline or even just aircraft for longhaul and go head to head on all routes, EI will become a tiny airline with high prices and tiny routes its not what I want but its what MOL wants and he normaly gets what he wants. So if I worked for EI I would be thinking, do I
want to work for a timy airline that will be cutting routes and jobs or would I want to work for an airline that announces new routes almost every month and buys new a/c 3x a year.
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en2r
so your telling me that MOL will just roll over, put his hands up, say
"o" well, never mind, It was worth a go and thats the end of it.
Now that would be Irish.
"o" well, never mind, It was worth a go and thats the end of it.
Now that would be Irish.
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I am so sorry if my comment upset you it was an attempt at a light hearted joke and I think you knew it
, One half of my family is Irish from Dingal bay so I have nothing against the Irish, anyway you didnt answer my question, will he or wont he roll over ?
, One half of my family is Irish from Dingal bay so I have nothing against the Irish, anyway you didnt answer my question, will he or wont he roll over ?
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daz211
I didn't think it was a light hearted joke. I found it extremely insulting. Just because you have Irish relatives doesn't mean you can make derogitory comments about Irish people. I don't think MOL will just roll over, but at the same time I don't think Dermot Mannion will if given half a chance by the shareholders. I don't think Ryanair will enter the long haul in the foreseeable future if they don't take over Aer Lingus. I also think Aer Lingus are onto a gold mine with their expanding operations at Cork which leaves them with huge potential, especially given the fact that MOL had a big spat with Cork Airport
I didn't think it was a light hearted joke. I found it extremely insulting. Just because you have Irish relatives doesn't mean you can make derogitory comments about Irish people. I don't think MOL will just roll over, but at the same time I don't think Dermot Mannion will if given half a chance by the shareholders. I don't think Ryanair will enter the long haul in the foreseeable future if they don't take over Aer Lingus. I also think Aer Lingus are onto a gold mine with their expanding operations at Cork which leaves them with huge potential, especially given the fact that MOL had a big spat with Cork Airport
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en2r
well once again Im sorry if I upset you
.
I myself would like RYR to start long haul flights, but I also think that
an EI take over might not be the best way forward, I would rather MOL
just bought some bigger wide bodied a/c and done it that way, however
I think he would rather take EI as this would show the likes of BA and VS
that he means business.
.I myself would like RYR to start long haul flights, but I also think that
an EI take over might not be the best way forward, I would rather MOL
just bought some bigger wide bodied a/c and done it that way, however
I think he would rather take EI as this would show the likes of BA and VS
that he means business.