Aer Lingus - 2

[ryan2000]

Cork Dublin

Ryanair are booming on Cork Dublin. If EI do create a major hub there they should find some way of feeding Cork traffic into it. Most people who've switched from the train to the Plane are getting to like the service a lot.

Also Cork-JFK with a small A330 would give EI a massive advantage in over its competitors even it diluted the SNN JFKyield slightly.

[Flame]

Expect an annoucement re Dublin - Athens in the next few weeks from EI

[Tom the Tenor]

An EI A330-200 is a no go for routine operations on Cork-New York. Will not happen. I have good counsel on this one.

[akerosid]

No frills on long haul?

I recall that this was an idea put about when WW was in charge. Has any progress been made on it since DM came in, or is it a dead duck.

Just thinking about it, they could have a three class service on t/a routes:

- A decent J class, with PTV, AVOD, (nearly) lie flat seats, new FFP (also for full fare Y class),
- Redesigned Y class, 32-33" pitch, PTV/AVOD. Free food/drink
- New no-frills, 30" pitch, 9 abreast on 330, pay for food, no interlining, pay for IFE.

The 330 isn't really great at 9 abreast, but if it's a low cost, no frills, cheap service, it's worth looking at. At the end of the day, it's only a matter of time before no-frills comes to long haul and EI should be ahead of the curve, particularly with FR breathing down its neck. If they don't someone else will.

When they get the new type, whatever it is, the no frills Y class could have pay-PTV/AVOD. Ultimately, this would become the main Economy Class, with the current Y class becoming the premium product (with slightly higher pitch).

[EI896]

I think a Brussles route out of EICK would be an excellent expansion for Aer Lingus if the costs were low,

SN Brussles were in last year and I have a cousin over there in Brussles and he found himself driving out to Cheroli to go to EINN and then to get a bus home to Cork, becasue Ryanair have very low prices and SN Brussles were through the roof!!! So if Aer Lingus made that route to main airport in Brussles to Cork he'd have an easy time getting home.

The Glasgow expansion would be good the loads were meant to be excellent on the Loganair route, and I don't know why they gave it up? It seems fairly stupid to me? So if Aer Lingus or Ryanair even steped in and provided a route to Prestwick or the main airport in Glasgow it would be excellent.

[840]

Originally Posted by Tom the Tenor

An EI A330-200 is a no go for routine operations on Cork-New York. Will not happen. I have good counsel on this one.

I tend to agree that it won't happen unless some other airline shows signs of operating Cork-New York. In terms of what you've heard, is it a purely business decision or are practicalities like the length of runway and lack of a parallel taxiway in Cork involved.

Originally Posted by EI896

I think a Brussles route out of EICK would be an excellent expansion for Aer Lingus if the costs were low

The Glasgow expansion would be good the loads were meant to be excellent on the Loganair route, and I don't know why they gave it up? It seems fairly stupid to me? So if Aer Lingus or Ryanair even steped in and provided a route to Prestwick or the main airport in Glasgow it would be excellent.

Two problems here.

Firstly, specifically with the Brussels route, you have to take into account the impact on yields to Amsterdam and Paris. There is a direct hourly train from Amsterdam airport to Brussels and the journey time is a little over two hours. This is the most common way people travel between Cork and Brussels. It is entirely practical to leave Cork on the morning Amsterdam flight and still be in Brussels by midday using this service. Similarly, you can leave Brussels as late as just before 5 pm and still make the evening Amsterdam-Cork rotation. Travelling up from Paris is another option. Aer Lingus have to be very careful with their yield out of Cork and any flight to Brussels is likely to mostly rob passengers off existing EI services.

Secondly, on a more practical level all their aircraft in Cork are fully utilised. Any new routes would require either a new aircraft or dropping of service or frequency on existing routes. Who knows, maybe one of the couple of A320s still to be delivered will be assigned to Cork, but it would be a while yet before it turned up.

[EI896]

Well When I travelled over to Paris this year it was just people going on holiday to France or French tourists going home. No buisness men and you have to think about people in the government like Brian Crowley is an EU commisioner or something I saw him get oof a LHR flight in Cork probably coming from Brussles so if a flight for him was there what would you chose? and if I was to pick the flight to Brussles or to Amsterdam and get the train, the flight time from Cork is about the same time to Brussles so it's always going to be another easier option, and if Aer Lingus had a flight to Brussles you'd proably find that the prices would be the same for Amsterdam or Paris so I think here train beats plane.

Sorry in advance 840 if I sounded any way rude in this post.

[840]

What you need to understand is that, with the exception of SNN-CRL, all the options you are discussing - including connecting in London - involve an Aer Lingus flight anyway. So, if they launched flights to Brussels, they would take pax off their own existing services. The question is whether the number of new passengers that could be developed would justify the reduced yields on those services.

[akerosid]

A330s u/s ... in US

Apparently, two A330s are now u/s in the US, one at ORD (EI-JFK) and the other at BOS. Anyone know what the problem is; this must be putting quite a bit of pressure on ops, particularly as the ORD aircraft has been there two nights (?)

The rate of 330 breakdowns seems to be quite high this Summer compared to previous years; are there root causes (lack of Airbus support, particular problems occurring repeatedly, for example?)

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On the home front, EI is said to be focusing on short haul flights of over 2hrs, as a (the?) major growth area, believing that pax will prefer EI over FR on longer flights. Russia, Greece and Scandinavia are being targeted.

The 320's range (albeit at 150 pax) from DUB is around 2600nm, which brings most of Europe and North Africa - even as far east as Tehran (yeah right, I think they'll leave that one to FR!) - with the 320's range.

http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=&...OR=&MAP-STYLE=

It does offer scheduling advantages as well, since EI can use overnight downtime to operate to places such as DME, IST, LCA, possibly even CAI), maximising utilisation.

[hafez]

BA and Air France fly 777's and 747s to CAI, I think people would rather travel through Heathrow than have to sit on an A320 for that long!

[akerosid]

Ah, Egypt ...

I know they do and there are other options besides - KLM, Lufty, Turkish, etc, BUT if EI can do it cheaply why not; after all, travelling through LHR, you have to interline, change terminals, go through security, pay extra taxes, etc. At the end of the day, most travellers go on a budget and the lower the proportion of that going on the trip there and back, the better.

A little swish marketing (call it the Pharoah-plane ), good deals on hotels etc. and it could work. Sure it's five hours on a 320, but if it's quicker and cheaper ...

[ryan2000]

Cork SCandanavia

Cork to Copenhagen or Stokholm would give EI a monopoly from the South of the country. No competition from SAS, Braathens or Finnair.

[akerosid]

Can anyone confirm rumours that a second A330-200 (i.e. a third A330) is due for delivery next May (apparently on 7 year lease from CIT?).

Given doubts about the airline's ability to expand its US markets from next Summer, I'd be surprised to see this, unless the airline has secretly been given the nod from Kildare Street that the EU Commission is willing to give the green light?

Also, given the reliability problems with A330s in recent days (and indeed during the Summer), is it planned to keep the older 330s in service until the new fleet arrives from 2012, whichever type that will be?

[Bearcat]

[QUOTE=akerosid;2821781]Can anyone confirm rumours that a second A330-200 (i.e. a third A330) is due for delivery next May (apparently on 7 year lease from CIT?).
QUOTE]

hmmm your gettin hot. Aircraft 3 is definitely in the pipeline.

post sept.... you will see a raft of annoucements.

A very hot rumour is a batch of 777s are on the way.....lets see if emirates play a part here!!

[akerosid]

Very interesting! 777s would be very nice. I've heard that EK is trying to set up a leasing outfit and I wonder if that would be a source of aircraft in the future.

I've been wondering about EK's potential r'ship with Aer Lingus; with its own huge requirement for an aircraft in the class EI wants (787-10/A350XWB), perhaps EI might get some cost advantage from getting in on the coat-tails of that. I don't think EI was ever very enthusiastic about the original 350, being just a warmed over 350, but I think Boeing would have to do a hell of a lot of talking to see off the 350XWB, but if it can do a deal with EK and EK has a r'ship with EI and the price is right ... EK has, of course, had a pretty tepid relationship with Airbus recently.

[Charlie Roy]

Originally Posted by EI-RB

With all these new routes being introduced by Ryanair in direct competition with Aer Lingus, is it worrying days for EI or will they be able to fight off FR on these routes ?

The increase in frequency on the Dublin to Berlin and Rome flights are really going to hit Aer Lingus hard. More and more Irish people will fly on these routes for the cheaper fares, more varied schedules, and the fact the airports concerned are central and not 100km south of wherever.

Germans and Italians barely know that Aer Lingus exist but have certainly heard of Ryanair.

[Faire d'income]

RB please tell me the article you refer to was not the psychotic rant from Shane Ross??? It was a typically pathetic article from a tired bitter old hack.

That article basically painted Aer Lingus, its unions, the Government, the banks, the brokers and any possible investors as the bad guys while people like him ( he didn't elaborate other than mention the lazy option that is the taxpayer ) were the victims.

Ross said in the past that Ryanair is a 'model' Irish company. That is how much he thinks of the average taxpayer.

[Bearcat]

latest re the 2 a330s to be delivered early/mid 2007. Rumour has it people taken off production line on A330 to A380.....delay of 6 months. Boeing offering 777s to tide them over. AL was a launch customer for ETOPS on the A330.....will they on the 787?? rumours abound!!!!

AL are about to be pasted by FR if they let FR muscle in on their bread and butter routes. Interesting FR going on rte's to Canary Is. This is very interesting considering their av sector time are mostly 1 and a half hours.

[Vapor]

It does seem that Ryanair are targeting Aerlingus European routes from Dublin now. If Aerlingus loose this battle then the Country will have a Ryanair monopoly. Not a good prospect for anybody.

[akerosid]

It would surprise (and disappoint) me greatly if Airbus tried to mess A330/340 customers about, just because it can't get the 380 right. Isn't Airbus under a contractual r'ship to Aer Lingus to provide the new aircraft; if it welches on this, well they don't deserve the business.

I'm glad that Boeing isn't letting EI's business go without a fight; it's clearly very much in EI's interest, even if - at the end of the day - they do end up going Airbus.

The thing that worries me about FR is that although EI has said it feels its best option is to focus on short haul routes of 2h+, FR's three most recent route plans have been on such routes. I really hope EI can fend FR off, but it will come down to cost. What is to stop FR from matching EI route for route, so if (as expected) EI announces ATH in the near future, FR does exactly the same - and with other routes too? One hopes that they have better things to do with their aircraft and there are many, far weaker European flag carriers to cause heartache for, but over the next few weeks, I can see FR going out to make life extremely unpleasant for EI.