Flybe - 2

[marlowe]

who cares about 318 at LCY bcause if the Evans and co are running the show at EDI/LCY then its doomed to fail .

[Hudson Bay]

You will still get staff travel with BA and all the big Airlines. Flybe have an agreement. In fact Staff travel at Flybe is one of the best in the industry.
For the Pilots flying the dash you will go directly onto the Q400. Flybe at the moment cannot recruit experienced guys. In addition you will become the best paid turbo prop pilots in the country.
For the jungle jet pilots, forget it. Flybe tried the CRJ and and concluded it was a money drainer. The embraer's will go just like the CRJ's and the pilots will have to go on the Q400. Flybe have always maintained they want a 2 Aircraft fleet. Sorry.
For the RJ (146) pilots you will get a stay of execution. The 146 is being phased out over the next 2 years and then all those pilots will go onto the Q400.
The jet at flybe is soley on seniority. Time to command on the jet is running at about 8 - 10 years. Probably quicker at BA mainline. Once BA Connect is taken over it will go up to 15 years.
Average pension. Company puts in 12%. Employee 4%. But remember 12% of nothing is nothing. Basic wage of a Jet skipper is the same as RyanAir. Rubbish!!! 52K.
104 days off per year. Again rubbish! Most low cost Airlines get at least 140 days off plus holidays.
Not sure how the shares will be distributed. There not worth anything anyway until Flybe is sold.
All Bacon management will go. Flybe has a state of the art Logistics centre at Exeter that know what their doing.
All though Flybe's T's and C's for flight crew is poor your job's will be safe. From a business angle they are very good at making money and with the Walker family behind them (one of the richest familys in the country) they are a safe bet and I would invest if given the option. (Not my skills. My money)
I think this has surprised everybody. In terms of Aircraft they will be bigger than Ryan Air or Easyjet.
Watch this space. Flybe will be a major player and if I was responsible for any lowcost outfit I would be a little worried tonight.
Good luck guys whatever you do. This industry changes everyday, all you have to do is make the right move at the right time.

[Nil further]

Hudson Bay

I doubt wether the shuffling of the deckchairs on the decks of the regional bit players Titanic is costing Stelios or Leo much concern.

Both had load factors in the low 60% last year.

As far as can tell BA are paying Flybe to take over a loss making problem .Nice move maybe for the Exeter guys if they can get rid of the T and C of regional.

If Flybe is such a great business why are the Walker Family trust so keen to be rid of it ?

There is defo a market for what flybe are doing in the regions , the question is can it be done profitably in the long term ?

I dont know the answer and wish everyone well , however your statment that EZY and FR are losing sleep over this is ludicrous .
Try and get hold of the statement put out to staff today by EZY's city analyst , fascinating stuff !

Im afraid to post it here as i might get the sack , this site is not as anonymous as you think , leaks happen !

[devon_guy]

I see Flybe have ramped up their baggage charges, presumably they need the cash now

[marlowe]

AHA2218 perhaps its the Royal bank of scotland thats funding the new EDI operation? BACON managment as it stand now would just about do anything that RSB ask for at the moment.

[AHA2218]

Originally Posted by marlowe

AHA2218 perhaps its the Royal bank of scotland thats funding the new EDI operation? BACON managment as it stand now would just about do anything that RSB ask for at the moment.

Yes it is the RBS, BACON bend over backwards to maintain the EDI - LCY route. Even if it requires operating sectors at a loss

[tallaonehotel]

After today's fiasco, I'm going out to get lashed.
Why didn't we see this coming?.
This has got to have been the best kept secret to all at BACON, calculated, cold and no thought for all involved. The BA way.

[bmibaby.com]

Originally Posted by Expressflight

bmibaby.com

Where does your information come from that Flybe's new commercial plan envisages additional bases?

That was from the flybe Q&A section on their website.

[AlphaCharlie]

Someone asked so ... Flybe aircraft distribution at present (it looks roughly right):

GLA - 2 x Q400
EDI - 3 x Q400
GCI - 1 x 146, 1 x Q400
JER - 1 x 146, 1 x Q400
NWI - 2 x Q400
SOU - 3 x 146, 5 x Q400
BHX - 1 x 195, 3 x 146, 3 x Q400
BHD - 2 x 146, 4 x Q400
EXT - 1 x 146, 4 x Q400

I would have thought the BRS base at BA Connect is fairly safe. Its far enough away from EXT, it doesn't have any of the same routes except to EDI and GLA and even those could be profitable to Flybe. But who knows what the master plan is.

[jabird]

"Imagine Lufthansa pulling the plug on Munich, Iberia on Barcelona and so on. And its not like the UK's major cities are minor players in the population stakes. Remember the much trumpeted fact some years ago that 28 million people live within 2 hours of Birmingham."

Banotok & co,

These comparisons aren't really relevant because of the hypertrophic nature of UK geography (ie London is most important city, and then becomes even more important because everyone wants to be there).

A more realistic comparison would be with France - now I don't see Air Paris offering LYS to JFK, or many other international routes from any of their other cities to be honest, so could we really have ever expected anything different from BA in the long term, considering that they don't have the same kind of protectionism as their French cousins?

[BHDflyer]

London City and the new operator

If the LCY routes are to stay does this mean that BA will have to think of a new name for the operator of these flights if there's no more BA Connect? A good name might be something like 'BA Central'. I could be wrong, but does this mean that BA can no longer legally use the name 'BA Connect'?

BHDflyer

ps. bye bye BA in Belfast when BHD-MAN gets taken over by flybe

[Daza]

Flybe @ BHX

If the ealier post relatint to based aircrat is to be believed then BHX will only be getting 10 aircraft we have a combined 20 with the two fleets at the moment!!! Surely BHX should and will be Flybes biggest base if the two schedules are to be combined lets hope its not a route loss like the one following the demise of Duo? In response to the London centric answer about UK flying, Air France DO have a presence in Lyon at least, Birmingham and Manchester are large world class cities the flag carrier should be operating to them. This move will only add to the divide in the UK where everything is concentrated in the southeast. Good luck to Flybe maybe when Low Fares move on BA s only remaining revenues ie long haul they will realise that they need to change not consolidate.
Daza

[OltonPete]

BHX

The 20 based aircraft is not quite as it seems, from last
week it is as follows (I might have missed one) : -

Flybe - 4 (GLA 195, Jersey, EDI & Belfast - a mix 2 x DH8, 1 x 146)
BACON - 3 RJ100's DUS, EDI GLA
5 145's - ABZ, CDG, FRA, STR, HAM

I make this 12!

Okay the early morning inbound STR, DUS & FRA makes 15 (crewed from BHX). Then GLA & EDI (Scottish or BHX crew but the craft are based away)

Then flybe fly in 3 early morning flights (BHD, EDI & GLA)

Yes = 20 but 8 are never in BHX at night and up to 5 could be
crewed from elsewhere.

To maintain some semblance of a service they will need at least 10
based at night (as they have said) with at least four jets hopefully.

I worked out that in Feb they could have 40 craft with 34 required,
so there is a bit of scope but the next few months will be interesting
to see how this works out and how Baby react at BHX.

I bet Baby were in the throes of finalising summer 2007, I wonder
if they knew or have their plans been blown out of the water?

I can see them now going four a day on EDI and possibly three
on GLA and if they have been negotiating CDG slots that could
be 2 or even 3 a day.

Pete

[groundhogbhx]

Originally Posted by jmc757

Out of interest anyone know what will happen to the ground handling activities? BA have a full handling base at BHX and we can only assume they won't want it. Will flybe want the hassle of running their own handling company? I sincerely doubt it.

So I guess they'll be closed or sold off? Perhaps Swissport will acquire BHX they handle flyBE anyway...

BA are keeping the handling company, makes me think that in return for giving the airline to flybe they will take over the handling in BHX and get some of their money back. There was talk last month of BA handling being sold off in BHX but I would think this changes everything.

[Violet Garlic]

I've heard that BA had to PAY Fly BE for this to go ahead! Any truth?


The MAN-JFK route to stay apparently,but with BACX (sic),OR !? - BA crews, drawn from the mothership.

[Volmet South]

I guess this move explains why DE and goons steadfastly refused to
1. Come up with any sort of meaningful challenge to FlyBe e.g. advertising.
2. Listen and act upon feedback regarding the piss poor volumes of buy-aboard catering.
3. Deliver the promised financial performance updates to staff so they could see for themselves how the company was performing against Willie's fake target.
4. Explain why routes with high load factors were closed for "economic" reasons. We now know it was FlyBe's economics that were suffering.

[Lite]

Originally Posted by GBALU53

Bring back the likes if B.E.A. and B.O.A.C..the staff seemed happier in those days.

Isn't this already sort of happening? British Airways is going to be the big hub carrier for flights out of London, whilst flybe (the "be" standing for "british european" though I believe they no longer put those words on the side of the aircraft) is going to be operating all non-London European flights, with some financial shareholding from BA.

flybe have a very good product, having handled their flights as well as travelling with them as a passenger. Their fleet is being replaced with modern efficient aircraft, their crews whilst not wearing the most fashionable of uniforms are very friendly & professional, their route network is consistently expanding and the airline has a very visible brand. Contrast this to BA Connect - with the exception of the friendly & professional crews, BA has an ageing fleet which are inappropriate for low-cost operatons, a route network which is always shrinking and a general lack of BA Connect-specific advertising.

Whilst it's true that some people accustomed to the ERJ will have to go back to turboprops, at least you'll be working for a growing & successful regional airline whose management seem to know what they're doing and have some care toward their employees.

I agree as a PSA that this must be a particularly difficult time for BAR ground staff at BHX as they've been given no indication as to what will happen to their jobs.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

As a regular MAN - LHR pax (and occasional MAN - Gatwick), what about the shuttles? Are they BACON or BA? Will there still be a MAN shuttle? And a Man-Gatwick?

SSD

[FlyboyUK]

SSH

The shuttle routes are mainline so no change there. After all they take traffic straight to fortress London.




According to The Times this morning, this deal had cost BA over £100million.

Just wondering what's going to happen to GB's offering of the BA connect product if Flybe is going to own BA Connect Ltd??

I'm glad I resigned from BACON recently, but just want to say good luck to all affected by this.