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Old 9th Jan 2006, 22:00
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Re: Bmi

bmibabyfc - you keep mentioning something big or interesting is going to happen at bmi this year. Can you not elaborate and give us some more detail?

Apart from what we already know, e.g. new routes to Jeddah, Doha and Mumbai going daily, I can't see there being any further expansion of longhaul this year. Where are the aircraft coming from to do this? EU - US talks seem to have gone quiet, again even if a positive outcome is found to this, ops will not start until 2007 in reality and again only if suitable aircraft can be found.

Shorthaul is not a growth area due to the loco competition, so I can't see this as the solution.

Don't get me wrong, I'm keen to see bmi progress in the right direction, but at this moment in time struggle to see how!
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Old 10th Jan 2006, 10:30
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Re: Bmi

Like VHF Flyer, I too am a Diamond Club Card Holder [although Silver not Gold in my case] and am in the same position of not having used BMI for a while---In my case not for a year. Why? Well the main reason is the poor Heathrow experience. On my last two BMI flights back from Nice the terminal facilities were simply not up to standard. In the first case,a jammed baggage belt system with no one around for ages to ask to fix it---this was around 10.30 at night---and on the second "late" arrival the terminal access road for the Pink Elephant car park shuttle was closed. No one was around to tell me that the [at that time quiet] road was closed and that I had to go upstairs to the departure level road. Hence a long cold frustrating wait. No more Nice via Heathrow for me!
The result is that I have returned to Easyjet via Bristol. I moved to BMI via Heathrow to avoid the boarding scramble that is part of the Orange experience---but have come to the conclusion that it is worth enduring the boarding in order to use the relatively pleasant airport of Bristol.
Why do BMI not fly from Bristol? If they did then I would be happy to use DTVAirport's favourite airline again.
P.S. In case you are wondering, I have retained my card by using it on other Star Alliance airlines [Thai in particular]. The Thai Heathrow experience is not something I enjoy but at least it is T3 rather than T1

Last edited by Euravia First; 10th Jan 2006 at 10:45. Reason: Changes
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Old 10th Jan 2006, 15:58
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Re: Bmi

FlyingFrog - heard something about an Emirates A330 being leased, possibly posted on this forum a while back but I'm not certain.
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Old 10th Jan 2006, 16:19
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Re: Bmi

Originally Posted by UPSAirOps
FlyingFrog - heard something about an Emirates A330 being leased, possibly posted on this forum a while back but I'm not certain.
The Emirates A330 belongs to bmi, Emirates are "looking after it" until bmi have use for it. They're leasing an A333 from Qatar.
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Old 10th Jan 2006, 16:34
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Re: Bmi

if bmi have an A330 being looked after by emerates why are they wet leasing a 757 for their 4th longhaul route???
Also ask the engineers at NEMA if the airline will be going places this year??????? when you do 'Duck' cos the base maintenance facility is closing down there, most of the eng staff being made redundant
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Old 10th Jan 2006, 20:48
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Re: Bmi

If bmi have a current business plan they are keeping it well hidden but we will see the results in time. If it is like the one they have been following for the last five years it will take them further down the road of turning what was a highly successful short haul airline that competed strongly on major European trunk routes and provided a service that business travellers were willing to pay a premium for and leisure travellers willing to pay reasonable fares for in to a more fragmented organisation with no route structure that supports business travel and a base that does not appeal to leisure travellers in the main other than as a transfer point where they now won't interline your baggage making LHR more unattractive than it is already to many people. Long haul routes will develop further at the cost of short haul and there will be no passengers to interline to long haul from their short haul network and no onwards connections for long haul inbound so their routes will be of dubious worth.

Assuming they get rights in to the US from LHR, to get the slots they need to compete with BA they would have to decimate the current hopeless offering and they still would not match the others. After all, is one BD rotation to JFK going to affect travel in the market when BA operate seven rotations on that route alone? I think not. I'm a *G card holder who has not set foot on BD since May last year and I can't see me doing it any time soon as although I was brand loyal for many years they pushed me too far in terms of schedules and poor service that I moved everything I spent with them to BA and now I wonder why I put up with them for so long. Do they really think that people are going to opt to pay Premium Economy fares that cost more than Business Class did 12 months ago for the current level of service and paid for food? That thinking is crazy. I know many others in the same position and I don't think there is anything much they could do to recover the business that they have thrown back in our faces with their chaotic, negligent management. They supposedly introduced the August 2005 changes after surveying 10 000 people, does anyone know anyone who was surveyed, I don't and don't know anyone who does. They recently surveyed 200 former business class travellers who were also members of Diamond Club, I know more than 20 people who were surveyed then - does that tell you anything about the 10 000?

Their chances of turning things around? None.
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Old 10th Jan 2006, 20:51
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Re: Bmi

Have had quite a few trips with bmi this year, but all BHD-LHR, where we still have a business class Service has been excellent "up front" but trips "down the back" on BA, pre-catering crisis felt better (15+ months since last BA flight, so they may have changed considerably)

However, I must admit that the new bmi fare structure has caused some confusion.... the company I work for tend to book quite a few people between BHD and LHR each month and the people who book the fares can't explain all the diferences between the fare structures... they still class it as "business" and "cattle".

General concensus amongst office folk and all relations/friends polled is that bmi have made a horlix of their economy structure with no-one quire sure of what they are geting for the money "down the back"....

Back in the good old days, we had to choices from Belfast, BA Super Shuttle (all one class) with a useful onward connection network via LHR; or BMI with business class for those who wanted or economy, which was generally filled with those who booked by price rather than favourite airline Personally, previously if I had onward travel, I booked BA for the advantages of through tiketing etc... no lugging hold baggage at LHR. Now, no option, as bmi don't have a worthwhile European/ long haul route structure.... So it is bmi to LHR, then onward with BA....

However, now BA has departed and no-one is quite sure what product bmi are trying to market, you can book easy or baby and at least you know you are getting low quality service at a low price. With bmi, it is not as claer cut, judging by the range of fares on offer...
Come on bmi, get a grip! (Or come back BA, pleeeeeeease)

Regards,

Shuttlebus

Last edited by shuttlebus; 13th Jan 2006 at 21:53.
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Old 11th Jan 2006, 15:19
  #28 (permalink)  
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Re: Bmi

DVT the A330 was one of four bought by bmi but was sold to Emirates. Sadly it is no longer in the bmi inventory! Many wish that it were!


Faulty
I think you will find it is a 767 that bmi are using from MAN to the Caribbean and Las Vegas whilst the A330 undergo maintenance and then it goes to LHR to start up the Jeddah and take over the Riyadh. It has been reconfigured to give greater amount of Business class seating which these two routes demand.

Shuttle
British Midland - as was - also had a single business class aircraft on all routes. The service known as Diamond Service was excellent and was in no small part responsible for BA (who at that time did not offer hot breakfast!) to withdraw from the DUB - LHR route and immediately upgrade their BFS - LHR service.

bmi does have an European network and is the second largest user of Heathrow out of all the airlines in the World! The long haul routes are growing - however they are not a global airline and I doubt if they aspire to be one.

HWB
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Old 12th Jan 2006, 19:50
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Re: Bmi

With reference to bmi and its NBM, service has definately taken a turn for the worse. For employees its been a nightmare with regular abuse regarding through check in policy and excess baggage charges. Staff moral is at an all time low!
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Old 12th Jan 2006, 21:32
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Re: Bmi

If what is said immediately above is generally true across the network, its very sad - it seems that long gone are the days when British Midland was renowned for its leading products and service. As a passenger know I won't get involved in debates with bmi staff about lack of through checkin etc - I'm all too aware of changes that have been implemented, and as a result this is the last year I will have a Diamond Club gold card as my travel goes elsewhere now. This disappoints me because, as a former nine-year inmate at the Hall, I did like to try to ensure bmi got as much as possible of the travel I do for my current employer.
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Old 13th Jan 2006, 10:11
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Re: Bmi

A few colleagues of mine have just flown MME-LHR and then back again, and they said the service was the best they've ever known.
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Old 13th Jan 2006, 10:24
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Re: Bmi

The funny thing about BMI is that they always seem to have staff at morale an all time low, a stupid business model & general doom & gloom. They are still going despite years of these posts here.

Maybe SMB and his cronies aren't as stupid as we all think.
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Old 13th Jan 2006, 22:14
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Re: Bmi

Don't have any hope for BMI. Isn't it the pilots that are supposed to have their head in the clouds, not the management???
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Old 29th Jan 2006, 20:29
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Question bmi

I've looked in the business press for an unbiased analysis of this company but I can't find anything of interest. I fail to see how they have a sustainable business model for the future. Low cost from LHR is not an option due high cost base. The short haul model of yester year is gone thanks to easy et al. BA are hoovering up the business pax. Long haul to obscure destinations of little interest to the majority of the traveling public seem to be flavour of the month but would seem to offer little long term growth opportunity. As for transatlantic ops, if open skies were to occur, the major US and British carriers that already dominate the routes could extinguish bmi within a couple of months if they so desired with a little price war. Not to mention that their longhaul fleet size is a pitiful 3 330's with no likely prospect of an increase in the short term. Just what does the future hold. I know that moral among the staff is at an all time low as they all wonder whats round the corner. I feel that consolidation with another carrier is the obvious way out (Virgin) but the politics at the top suggest that's unlikey. Anyone care to share their views on this unhappy state of affairs?
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Old 29th Jan 2006, 21:40
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Just read in last weeks Guardian and Man Evening News that now that the Vigins west coast line is recording times of 2 hours 15 mins between London and Manchester BMI hast lost 30 % of its pax on this route while BA has only lost 2%. I have also seen that Jet2 is going head to head on a lot of BMIbaby routes eg Cork and Paris. If I was working for BMI at MAN I would be looking of my shoulder!
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Old 29th Jan 2006, 22:16
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They'll get hammered if they try to mix it with the big boys on LHR -USA routes - mad or naieve?

They have picked mainly the wrong long haul routes from MAN but they really could carve a useful niche with their Star Alliance pals.....
suggestions...
MAN to Los Angeles, Jo'burg/Capetown, Tokyo.

But hey what do I know? I'm just a humble passenger who might want to buy this kind of stuff.
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Old 30th Jan 2006, 03:05
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GOAROUNDMAN

Jet2 don't currently operate to either Pais or Cork from MAN. Care to elaborate on that?

Most of the bmi LHR-UK routes have seen substantial reductions in loads in recent months, especially where BA operate a parallel service. The only routes (LBA and MME) to keep steady passenger volumes with the same months (eg Oct) in 2004 were those that received upgrades from F100's to new A319s, which offer about 25 more seats. Combined with the new "tiny fares" and the reduced loads, I find it very difficult to see that yields will have improved.
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Old 30th Jan 2006, 08:19
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I can't be fussed to spend long on this, but here's the result of a quick search.


2002 - The airline posted a pre-tax loss of £19.6m for 2002, compared with a £12.4m profit the previous year.


2003 - loss of £8.9m


2004 - In March, Sir Michael Bishop announces that the bmi has returned to profitability. Company records a pre-tax profit of £2.1 million


2005 - January. Lufthansa hopes to sell its holding in unlisted UK carrier bmi to escape a clause that could force it to buy a GBP£229 million (USD$431 million) stake, a British newspaper reported on Tuesday.

Nov. - Scandinavian airline SAS "may sell its stake in carrier bmi and pull out of its loss-making joint venture with bmi and Germany's Deutsche Lufthansa on European routes". According to the report, SAS chief executive Jorgen Lindegaard said the venture had cost the company 105 million pounds in losses between 2000 and September 2005. Further, it said, under the terms of the deal, which came into force in 2000, SAS and Lufthansa carry 45 percent of any losses, while bmi takes on 10 percent.


2006 - 5 January. BMI British Midland has denied it is in crisis after official figures revealed it has been losing thousands of passengers while rivals are taking advantage of the revolution that has seen millions more Britons taking to the air every year. After reporting passenger growth of more than 11% in 2004, bmi has refused to publish monthly statistics since last February.
At its much-vaunted budget subsidiary bmibaby, summer passenger numbers rose by just 3% against growth at direct rivals easyJet and FlyBe of 21% and 26% respectively. The decline at bmi comes as a range of younger airlines such as Jet2 and FlyGlobespan have more than doubled in size and stolen market share.


What really matters to the passenger, though, is the reliabilty, efficiency and value they're getting. IMHO, bmi have now lost on all counts.
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Old 30th Jan 2006, 10:33
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mind you this is the same press that quoted a "source" as saying that bmi cabin crew would need to take a $30,000 pay cut if they refused to fly to Riyadh.

That said, there's no smoke...

Bmi have lost a huge amount of high yield traffic with the nbm, and bearing in mind that short haul out of LHR has never really been that profitable, the cost savings will have to be pretty substantial. It's difficult to see a return to profit without major investment in long haul but i am not sure the resources are there
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Old 30th Jan 2006, 20:15
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I suspect we shall see the true colours of the company when Lufty and SAS manage to extricate themselves from the equation!
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