GATWICK

[Airlift21]

A very poor show indeed, if it's true. I always take any reports from Sky News with a pinch of salt. They can be prone to exaggeration and inaccuracies. Wait for updates from other news sources.

[LTNman]

From the airports own website:

After Heavy snow overnight and with forecasts of further snow, Gatwick will remain closed until at least 6am on Friday 03 December.

There will be no flights arriving or departing today, and passengers can expect further disruption, delays and cancellations as long as the severe weather continues. Passengers should not travel to the airport today, those scheduled to fly tomorrow should check with their airline before travelling to the airport.

We are doing everything we can to resume operations, our teams are working around the clock to make the runway safe for aircraft to use and get our passengers flying again.

[LTNman]

Unbelievable. They closed the airport Tuesday night and now it won’t open until Friday

[Joao da Silva]

pwalhx

If you do not like me making the point, you can try the Daily Telegraph.

Why did Britain slide into snow chaos again? - Telegraph

I found this quote interesting "Mike Carrivick, the chief executive of the Board of Airline Representatives, said: “UK infrastructure, including some major airports, has failed in its bad weather plans." “Air travellers must not be allowed to suffer like this. The Government, its agencies and airports must provide properly-prepared bad weather plans to prevent anything similar in the future.”
I arrived in Paris, late last night, to find a few snowflakes blowing around in the breeze. Same conditions this morning.

Of course any infrastructure can be overcome by snow, but the underlying resilience of the operation in bouncing back is what counts.

We will see what happens here, today.

[darkroomsource]

What? Extremely expensive equipment that up until the last couple of years was not really needed and would have sat around doing nothing? As already said by others, this sort of snow is unusual in the South East.

However, saying all that, if this looks set to become the norm for winter, then I do agree that the authorities seriously need to look at getting themselves some of that expensive equipment!

Um, what about global warming. Why should we expect MORE SNOW, when all the scientists are saying that we have global warming.

Here's the thing, in places where it snows a lot, regularly, for long stretches of time, they have equipment that can handle it. For places where it rains a lot, they have equipment to handle it. For places where it's foggy alot.... you get the picture.
It would be exorbitantly expensive for some place like the Virgin Islands to maintain snowplows on the off chance that once in the next 100 years or so they will get snow. There is a financial evaluation that has to be made, how often will the snowplows and other equipment be required, and how much will it cost to maintain said equipment, and what will it cost if flights are canceled.

If airlines are not required to remunerate passengers in the event of a snow-storm, then the cost of cancellations will effectively be zero, so it would require significantly more than a "few days" of snow each year to justify having snow equipment.

[cavortingcheetah]

Britain isn't working?

[Airlift21]

There has been too much emphasis on improving the terminal experience for passengers at Gatwick and not enough on airside operations. Having bright, spacious and friendly terminals count for nothing if passengers can't actually fly anywhere. Cracks are appearing in GIPs ability to run a major airport and to keep it running during periods of adverse weather conditions. This can't happen again. Lessons have to be learnt quickly and the cheque book has to come out for more snow clearing equipment. I find it even more disturbing that this snow was forcasted well in advance. No excuses I'm afraid.

[traveller42]

I'm not surprised Gatwick continues to be closed this morning - the trains have given up completely. No trains at all on Southern or Gatwick express south of Croydon until further notice. Even north of Croydon all they're saying is they may start a limited service from 1000.

[AirLCY]

The cost to airlines isn't zero, there are still passenger welfare costs in many cases, plus airlines still have to pay for staff and aircraft lease costs etc while there is no revenue coming in! This will cost both LGW and the airlines millions!

[Airlift21]

Darkroomsource,
Global Warming doesn't mean everywhere gets hotter. Indeed, a lot of places will get colder eg UK. North Pole ice caps melt, more fresh water, no Gulf Stream, Britain gets cold, therefore more expensive snow clearing equipment please.

Airlift21.

[groundbum]

could be cash here

since this happens every year it seems, but at different airports (I was stuck at Manchester in last December's snow) and people say it's down to lack of capacity ...

could not a rich person buy £5M of snow clearing trucks, and have a lot of people on standby, then each winter rent the fleet to the airport with the biggest chequebook? Obviously getting the fleet to the airport before the snow closes the motorways would be interesting.. could an auction between the different airports on ebay, and would need some kind of security clearing/training etc before the day since each airfield is different..

G

[pwalhx]

Joao

I have no problem with you making a point, labouring it is where i have the problem and generalising.

There has been snow in other parts of the U.K. and the infrastructure has worked fine, that is my point. Gatwick has a problem, it does not appear to have handled or coped with it well, however it is not true for the whole of the U.K.

What you say about Paris is equally true say in Manchester .

[Dnomyar19]

Thought BA were still using 319s on some JER schedules?

Not since the start of the Winter 10 schedule at the end of October. Just the 737's now on the shorthaul routes. That's not to say that the odd Airbus may make a guest appearance during the winter to cover for unexpected events.

[Joao da Silva]

pwalhx

I see your point. My labouring is more a reaction to those Brits who appear to wimp out at the first sniff of trouble, they certainly did not build their great empire by making such excuses and history shows us what a formidable nation the UK was in those days.

Anyway, as promised, Paris is experiencing snow showers and reports say about 25% of flights from CDG have been cancelled. Don't know about ORY.

METAR

METAR LFPG 020900Z 19010KT 5000 -SN BKN011 M02/M04 Q1004 0819//58 5859//53 0919//63 5919//62 NOSIG=

METAR LFPG 020830Z 19009KT 4500 -SN SCT008 BKN010 M02/M04 Q1004 0819//58 5859//53 0919//63 5919//62 NOSIG=

METAR LFPG 020800Z 18009KT 3500 -SN SCT008 BKN010 M03/M04 Q1004 0819//58 5859//53 0919//63 5919//62 NOSIG=

METAR LFPG 020730Z 17010KT 2200 -SN BKN008 BKN011 M03/M04 Q1004 0819//61 5819//70 0919//63 5919//62 NOSIG=

[Nicholas49]

Joao,

Your pearls of wisdom about Gatwick operations and snow conditions in the UK are appreciated. Your poor understanding of English law is not.

If you buy a product from Tesco and it is faulty, who is liable to compensate the consumer?

It is Tesco, not the manufacturer.

No, that is not correct. Both Tesco and the manufacturer are potentially liable in English law. See this case. It's quite important, in the sense that it defined modern tort law.

Best wishes
Nick

[learjet50]

Groundbum

Bit off the subject there

Totalally inpracticle

If you put a 1 in front of your 5 u might the nearer the Mark

If I had 5 million pounds thats the last thing I would invest in

I would sit on my Carriebean Island counting the intrest (Not much at the moment) but certainly not your Idea.



It only happens max 10 times a year so no one is going to invest in Equipment except an Airport

[Skipness One Echo]

Having seen the snow again last night and fought my way into town via the Croydon Tramlink, (don't ask), the snow south of London is still pretty epic for what we're used to. There are no trains on Southern as stated above and it's snowing again alas.

[Capetonian]

Scores of passengers were forced to sleep in broken-down trains overnight after two trains became stuck in the snow, while passengers stranded at Gatwick faced the prospect of bedding down for another night in the terminal.

The airport shut down with hundreds of flights cancelled after two runways became inoperable.

An airport spokesman said: 'We brought in extra people to try to clear the runway. We had a vast army of people, but as fast as they were clearing the snow, the quicker it settled again.'

The facility will remain shut until at least 6am at the 'very, very earliest'.


Read more: Snow: 300 spend night on train, 2,000 flights cancelled, roads gridlocked and there's another EIGHT INCHES of snow on the way | Mail Online

And there's me thinking LGW only has one runway. The Daily Mail knows something the rest of us don't know!

[Calmcavok]

LGW does have 2 runways, although it can only ever use one at a time.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Capetonian, no - it appears to be something only you don't know!!