LUTON - 2

[Powerjet1]

Originally Posted by forest

I know we have got the world cup and silverstone traffic but yesterday.
391 movements on a sunday!!! A new record day!

Great.
I picked the wife & mother-in-law up yesterday evening from an easy flight from EDI, and the place was just 'chocka' with pax. It was like August Bank holiday, not a sunday in June. THE CTA was certainly taking a battering with all those people milling around, and it was extremely difficult to actually walk anywhere. As discussed many times before, very urgent improvements are required to this area.

So as we head towards mid-June, the long awaited 'Final Masterplan' has still not been made public. This was meant to happened last month. Can we therefore assume that no planning applications of any sort have been submitted, regarding Phase One expansion?. New business development will be hampered in the short term.

With the proposed new spanish owners of STN, rumoured to be cutting some £1bn plus off BAA's fancy expansion plans, and going for a much more loco, "user friendly", style development, will not make the expansion and the ability to attract new business to LTN any easier.

[airhumberside]

Air Turquoise have moved their flights from Reims to Vatry

[Buster the Bear]

Police helicopter move to Henlow:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/b...ts/5073630.stm

[LGS6753]

No news is good news

You may all be pleased to know that the first I heard of the 'protests' was here on PPRUNE. I don't see local press but see Nationals, internet sites and newsgroups.
Hopefully their efforts went unrewarded by publicity.

[Buster the Bear]

20:25 local: American Biz Jet having to hold in the air on radar headings currently as there is no room on the ground, and it is only a Falcon (N8200E)!

..........Oh, room has now been found and a delay of 5-10 min in total! A sign of things to come? I guess a film premiere in London and corporate jets parked up awaiting departure for England's next game have contributed?

I wonder what will happen if Farnborough's attempt to open for longer/more movements is rejected by their local authority?

ASBO SLAP is being reported in the local papers this week.

[CAP493]

...see that there were significant delays to Compton departures (not of Luton's making) yesterday due to parachute dropping to the west:

1) Where is this taking place please?

2) Are departures from any other airports impacted?

3) Would this be allowed if departures from Gatwick, Heathrow or Stansted were delayed ? (probably a stupid question!!).

1) Lewknor near Stokenchurch - the site is listed in the UK 'Air Pilot'
2) Only the occasional Compton out of Northolt
3) An interesting question that you've already answered!!

But, rest assured, this issue is being followed up.

I wonder what will happen if Farnborough's attempt to open for longer/more movements is rejected by their local authority?

Longer hours almost certainly won't happen - the original planning permission was only granted by Rushmore Borough Council on the basis of very stringent operating restrictions which the local population, many of whom are of the 'stockbroker' and 'Lloyds underwriter' genre, just won't accept, particularly as the flying side doesn't generate that amount of local employment and the local area is not an unemployment 'black spot'.

...the proposed new spanish owners of STN, rumoured to be cutting some £1bn plus off BAA's fancy expansion plans, and going for a much more loco, "user friendly", style development

BAA's cost base is significantly higher than ACDL (ex. TBI) and the existing development plans for Stansted require significant investment. Given the borrowing that Ferrovial has allegedly taken up in order to fund its take-over, the likelihood that Stansted can still construct the second runway, operate more cheaply than it currently does and do this without cross-subsidisation from other group airports all whilst providing a more 'lo-co' product is frankly, a pie-in-the-sky pipe dream.

[OLNEY 1 BRAVO]

CAP493 - thanks for the gen on the parachute jumping.

Buster - as I understand it, the application to increase the number of movements at Farnborough on Saturdays, Sundays and Bank holidays has been rejected. Doubtless Sunday evenings will continue to be lively at Luton!

[ebenezer]

there were significant delays to Compton departures (not of Luton's making) yesterday due to parachute dropping

Absolutely nuts! If Network Rail was forced by the Strategic Rail Authority to adopt the same crazy logic that the CAA forces onto NATS, then every owner of a private train would be entitled to run it over the national railway network whenever they wanted to. So the 0705 from Newcastle to Kings Cross, the 1412 from Bristol to Birmingham or the 1210 from Euston to Manchester could all be delayed for up to a quarter-of-an-hour whilst a private train ran over the same lines and so was in confliction.
What a way to run a business, what a way to run a Country!!!

[Buster the Bear]

The sky went dark over my bear pit and I thought that I saw an A330 passing overhead, inbound to Luton? Did they get the inflatable apron out for it?

Delays to commercial flights, come on ebenezer, Controlled Airspace should be shared with all, well according to the CAA it should!

I am sure Mr O Leary would fully support delays to his flights to facilitate the recreational use of the TMA!

[ebenezer]

Delays to commercial flights, come on ebenezer, Controlled Airspace should be shared with all, well according to the CAA it should!

Now then Buster, we've warned you before about those neddies that inhabit CAA House. Of course, if they were all rounded up and put into a safari park for the children and grown-ups to feed bananas and apples to, we could staff CAA House with bears and that way get some sensible, intelligent, workable & bearable (!!) airspace procedures & policies in place...

[forest]

Yep, A330 on a Thomson charter, in from Paris out to Varna.
Its not such a problem, landed, albeit twice, made "A" turn off, parked on 48 easily. Outbound airbourne by "C"!! NO fuss!!

And as a french pilot, even wished England good luck for the Game!!

[22/04]

Hang on a minute!! Railways have always been a form of public transport and have never had significant private traffic and they have to have the infrastrucutre before they expand. The same rule should apply to airports and airspace. Why not cap capacity pending improvements in airspace at a sensible level i.e. "if you 've only got two tracks you can only run two trains" for now. Trouble with London TMA airports seems to be they are limited by runway slots but no take no account of airspace - how about an airspace mediated slot policy or a combined approach. Then Manston could really fly!

Anyway did any business jets (rich private not like me with my 180 horse Lycoming or the para droppers) contribute? If so they surely should be at the back of the queue

Just trying to stir really


Accept though that those of you trying to do a honest days work are caught up in the middle!

[CAP493]

Why not cap capacity pending improvements in airspace at a sensible level

&

Trouble with London TMA airports seems to be they are limited by runway slots but no take no account of airspace - how about an airspace mediated slot policy?

The issue regarding parachuting activities impacting on instrument (IFR) flights departing from Luton via Compton has nothing to do with 'airspace capacity', but rather, it's to do with the incompatibility of these two flying activities in the same controlled airspace given the rules that must be applied by air traffic control.

Your suggestion that airport capacity should somehow be capped pending improvements in airspace sounds logical but the fact is that the organisation which manages the TMA airspace (NATS) - as a monopoly supplier of 'area' air traffic control services - is required under the terms of its Licence to provide equitable access to the airspace (subject to airspace users meeting and complying with the rules and requirements attaching to that airspace [mainly aircraft equippage and pilot qualification] and complying with air traffic control clearances and instructions), and is also charged with delivering the required level of service to the users in terms of catering for each airport's (and airline's) expansion plans.

However, apart from applying 'flow' measures to match flight demand with airspace capacity, NATS does not have the ability to implement improvments to airspace except via the painfully slow and protracted Airspace Change Proposal route that the DfT now requires to be followed and which recently, even introduced the concept of assessing and measuring the impact of airspace and flights on 'tranquility'. Additionally, who is going to 'cap' these movements? NATS does not have any authority (nor should it have) to do this other than via 'flow' measures, so presumably you're suggesting that the CAA or DfT should undertake this regulatory function? One can just see the litigation and writs being issued when decisions are taken that affect commercial viability and business!! Then there are the likely legal challenges that would undoubtedly follow!!

The whole concept is frankly a mess, and IMHO it's caused primarily by the Government (or rather the civil servants running the Government's policies) which seems to have as its Mission Statement "You can please (fool?) all of the people all of the time" a concept that anyone with an ounce of intellect understands is fundamentally flawed.

There is a frequent mis-match in airspace capacity vs. airspace demand but to its credit, NATS has managed to reduce delays by implementing improvements (from the airspace user's perspective - not necessarily from the perspective of NOPEs, NIMBYs and the GA fraternity!!) to various airspace areas but the specific problem out of Luton to which Olney I Bravo refers is caused simply by two flying activities that are mutually incompatible and the CAA's insistance on behalf of the DfT that equitable airspace access must be given to both.

[Powerjet1]

Interestingly, Aer Arran flights between LTN & IOM were, but as of today, are not available for booking after sunday 1 Oct. After a year on the route is this going the same way as their LPL-IOM ?

[ebenezer]

...it's caused primarily by the Government (or rather the civil servants running the Government's policies)

The real culprit is the EU's deregulation of the airline industry (which followed the US Government's similar move some years ago) that has fuelled massive expansion particularly in the low-cost market, throughout Europe, much of it in the UK at airports such as Luton, Stansted, Liverpool, Bristol, Birmingham, etc., etc., whilst the necessary infrastructure (airspace, surface infrastructure, terminal capacity) and processes required to create that infrastructure remain mired in 1970s-style bureaucratic red tape and protocol.

[Powerjet1]

Confirmed by email from Aer Arran, LTN-IOM will in future, only operate during the summer season. Current service will finish on 1 October. Should start again around Easter 2007. Newquay is also only operating until 17 September.

[Buster the Bear]

L-1011 operating a Thomson flight today so I understand, how rare is that!

[WOWBOY]

Newquay is also only operating until 17 September.

Is NQY - LTN a summer only route aswell?

[LTNman]

May stats

Growth slows

ATM's

6979 up 6.2%
year on year 77736 up 12.4%

Passengers

826,152 up 3.1%
year on year 9,269,517 up 11.8%

[sleeplessnights]

400 barrier broken. Record movements

405 movements yesterday. (Friday 16th June) Roll on summer.