LUTON - 2

[antilla]

Hang on, Buster! I never claimed that the new airspace actually facilitated the increase in movements! I merely observed that there was a lot of excitement about record numbers of planes - and wondered why this should be so surprising if the new airspace had just resolved a known bottleneck.

I understood that the traditional approach over the airport was causing headaches for ATC at busy times, and that the new route would be safer because it reduced their workload and the possibility of error.

Was this not the case?

[Buster the Bear]

The interaction between inbounds and outbounds has been reduced, but the north bound Olney and the Compton SID's do still interact with inbounds. A complete redesign which is being progressed for the entite London TMA should reduce this hopefully, but this is a few years off.

Istanbul 3 weekly from July 1st 2006 initially, just confimed.

Keeping a low profile, must hide from ebenezer as he might have sent the poachers out!

[andyafc]

On helvetic's website you cant book anymore dates so looks pretty obvious that they have pulled the route, didnt have very good loads and they look to have taken there toll

[22/04]

Buster

Yes I am aware that for some time now Luton Approach has been at West Drayton. My comments stand.

[Powerjet1]

Came back through LTN a few hours ago after being away for several days and noticed the 'constructers base' had been assembled on the perimeter of the mid-term carpark. So work has now finally started on the construction of the new dual carriageway link road from jct 10 of the M1 into the airport. Only about 3/4 years late!!!.

There also seems to be 'diggers' doing work in the short-term carpark, in what was the disabled parking area. Anyone know what is going on there ?.

Istanbul 3 weekly from July 1st 2006 initially, just confimed.

Still does not seem possible to book on the easy website.

[ebenezer]

I regularly go to LTN - to witness a drop-off zone PACKED with parked, unattended cars. WHY? WHO - WHAT - WHY???

Because road traffic management and control (police, traffic wardens & LLAO security) at LTN is a complete JOKE. Every day, several parked and/or abandoned vehicles ranging from cars to small vans, not just outside the terminal but also on the roads adjacent to the central terminal area's roundabout. Whilst some contain dodgy-looking drivers, many are empty. Just how this complies with the DfT's security at airports requirements is beyond me! There appears to be complete and utter inertia on this issue by the responsible authorities/agencies.

Thats why I fly from STN, BHX & LGW. First flight out in the early hours and you can get to all 3 from Luton within an hour.

How interesting... Please explain how you (legally) even in the early hours, cover the 72.2 miles between Luton and Gatwick Airport or the 79.1 miles between Luton and Birmingham Airport "...within an hour". Yes I know that it's possible to drive almost entirely on motorways, but I assume that (a) you don't actually live in a duct under the M1 at Junction 10 or 11, and that (b) your speed drops slightly below 70mph as you negotiate the respective airports' roads...?

[carbootking]

the best time iv done stn to ltn was 45 mins cross country normally its 1 15 mins that was a few years ago though when i was chauffering i think the hostie was shocked as 1 minute she was accusing me off being lost then the next saying how good i was.

[CAP493]

Luton is almost at the point of turning business away. In fact some one off cargo flights have been turned away before the runway resurfacing work started when the airport was open 24 hours. The airport is creaking with so many issues that need addressing that it is hard to tell what will give way first. The worrying thing is that there appears to be no urgency in the airport submitting plans for phase one expansion. Even if plans were published today it could well be a year before work is started and 2 years before the fruits of any work could be felt.

Not sure if it's connected, but last week a group of AENA's senior executives were on-site at Luton taking stock of the existing facilities (airside/landside/roadside). This was a fairly short-notice visit possibly caused by the fact that (as LTNman quite rightly says) LTN is now having to turn business away during the three or four peak periods each day, not because of a lack of runway slots (although for July and September, some of the hours are now fully subscribed) but because of a lack of parking stands.

A well-placed 'source' says that the news that AENA's premier UK operation is actually turning away business did not go down awfully well in Madrid, even though local (i.e. LTN) management is under pressure from their Spanish bosses to actually cut back on capital expenditure, despite an urgent need to pour more concrete.

Rumour is that AENA might now adopt a more flexible attitude over this, but that the remaining length of the Concession is also a sticking point to be overcome.

[LTNman]

Something has clearly changed since the grand announcement of expansion at LTN a few months back. The phase one plan should have been finalised, published and sent for planning permission weeks ago yet there is nothing to be seen.

The concession has been running for several years now but as each year passes the potential return on new investment decreases as the remaining years tick by. No company is going to spend vast amounts of new money on new infrastructure only to see it potentially handed over to another company before a return on the investment has been made.

Lets not forget that the runway resurfacing work has cost around £17 million so money is being spent at Luton although in this case the operating company had no choice but to spend the money.

[ebenezer]

The concession has been running for several years now but as each year passes the potential return on new investment decreases as the remaining years tick by. No company is going to spend vast amounts of new money on new infrastructure only to see it potentially handed over to another company before a return on the investment has been made.

Quite correct! It's rumoured that ACDL wants a significant extension to the Concession term but there are legal issues that complicate matters. ACDL is quite prepared to invest heavily in its 'new airport' proposal as this could ultimately, become a totally separate operation from the existing (i.e. old) site (a fact that's not escaped the attention of Luton Council, which is very concerned at the prosect of losing the 'unearned income' it presently receives).

But the hot rumour is that significant additional expenditure on the existing site of the amounts required to maintain and expand ACDL's business, is not now favoured unless the Concession can be extended.

Watch this space!!

[LTNman]

There will be clues to what is going on by looking to see what happens in the fenced off section in the short-term car park. The wooden posts and car hire parking bay signs have all been dug up. Also the areas around some drains and gullies have received some attention from a JCB. If the car park gets a new layer of tarmac then one could surmise that a new apron here is not going to happen.

At 6 am this morning airliners occupied every stand on the main, north and eastern aprons. The north west corner had executive jets parked 5 deep with the Signature hangar looking full to the brim. There was a little spare capacity on the south apron for a few more private jets but the days of growth at LTN must be coming to an end for the next few years.

[carbootking]

how many aircraft can park overnight at luton ?

[LTNman]

Passenger aircraft stands

Main apron, 12 walk on, 7 bussed = 19
North apron, 5 walk on
Eastern apron, 3 walk on 3 bussed = 6

Total 30 stands.

Cargo

5 stands

Executive jet stands

Main apron

North west corner, around 15 executive jets
Stand 16 around 13 executive jets
Stand 54 around 6 executive jets

South apron, around 12 executive jets
Harrods new apron, around 8 executive jets

Total around 54

Grand total around 85 aircraft excluding what is parked in Luton’s extensive hangarage

[Buster the Bear]

I can fully understand the need to commit to a longer concession term prior to investing massively to upgrade the infrastructure

Hopefully LBC will look long and hard at the options available to it, then back a decision, which might not necessarily be in the long term interests of its asset (the airport), such is the potential short life span of a locally elected politician!

Like him or not, Lord McKenzie made a good deal for the town of Luton, I assume an extension in any contract term might not reward the council/the town as handsomely as the current which is where the negotiations could stumble.

LBC face a choice, retain their airport 'as is', or take a long term view? A successful airport generates massive local income and wealth. Don't forget, another option would be to sell up, take £millions which in the short term would do the local politicians no harm at all!

[LTNman]

I see that https://www.online-coordination.com/...abid=AvailWeek is showing no slots available for next Saturday between 22:00 and 23:00 and only one spare slot for the same time period for Friday.

A lack of a full length parallel taxiway is starting to bite then?

[Buster the Bear]

Hardly surprising LTNman, what kicks off at 16:00 local on Saturday?

[Powerjet1]

There will be clues to what is going on by looking to see what happens in the fenced off section in the short-term car park. The wooden posts and car hire parking bay signs have all been dug up. Also the areas around some drains and gullies have received some attention from a JCB. If the car park gets a new layer of tarmac then one could surmise that a new apron here is not going to happen

.
Arrived back into LTN at 2315 yesterday, and had to walk past the fenced off area on my way to my car in the short-term carpark. New tarmac was being laid and rolled as I walked past, so maybe LTNman, you are right about no new apron being constructed in this area, in the near future.

[OpsSix]

Originally Posted by ebenezer

How interesting... Please explain how you (legally) even in the early hours, cover the 72.2 miles between Luton and Gatwick Airport or the 79.1 miles between Luton and Birmingham Airport "...within an hour". Yes I know that it's possible to drive almost entirely on motorways, but I assume that (a) you don't actually live in a duct under the M1 at Junction 10 or 11, and that (b) your speed drops slightly below 70mph as you negotiate the respective airports' roads...?

Nope I don't live under the M1, yes I slow down once I reach the respective airport and I didn't mention anything about being legal

In fact, last time I did LTN-LGW, I drove at 70-80 most of the way and completed the route in apx 50mins. STN, LCY and BHX are much the same.

[LTNman]

Originally Posted by Powerjet1

.
Arrived back into LTN at 2315 yesterday, and had to walk past the fenced off area on my way to my car in the short-term carpark. New tarmac was being laid and rolled as I walked past, so maybe LTNman, you are right about no new apron being constructed in this area, in the near future.

I’m staggered, part of the fenced off area finishes well inside where the new apron should be. Maybe it is the case that there just isn’t the room for a new apron, expanded terminal and a multi story car park in the central area. So what does this all mean then for phase 1 expansion? Maybe there will be no phase 1 expansion and we will have to wait 6-8 years for the airport to expand south of the runway.

Looks like the airport could be facing indefinite zero growth.

[Powerjet1]

LTNman

The area which had new tarmac laid and was being worked on last night, extended from the front, ie, by the predestrian walkway/screen, to about 60/70 yds into the carpark. My initial impression was perhaps the area was going to used as an additional drop-off zone or some other improvement to increase traffic flow in the CTA, but now i'm not so sure. Infact, it looked just like a simple new tarmac layer onto what was the disabled parking area. It may be just that simple, who knows?.