PRESTWICK

[Aftershock]

GustyOrange : "As a taxpayer here I'm not too chuffed that wee Nicola is pouring my money down the drain unnecessarily."


As a taxpayer from Ayrshire I'm not too happy that 'wee Nicola' is ploughing 500m into Glasgow's infrastructure as a 'get it up ye' to the UK govt. What return do I expect to see on 'my money' there?

[12-30 Wind Sock]

Thanks notts. Great point gusty... Wish the gkasgow airport fans would just stick to there own.forum and the political people post on a political forum. SIMPLES

[Facelookbovvered]

Its not a political forum, but it is difficult to separate politics and business in an industry such as aviation, were that not the case there would not be a Davis commission in to airport capacity in the the South East, add to which the very fact that the SNP led administration have bought PIK makes it political !!

You are right that i don't live in PIK, but if you want to put a firewall around PIK open for PIK fan's only or people who say nice warm fussy things about it then good luck with that.

You may not like my tone, but my experience in this industry tell's me that if it's yellow like a duck, walks like a duck quacks like duck, then there's a better than even's chance that it is a duck...of course i don't wish or get glee to see someone out of work, why would I?

But some on the PIK thread have lost touch with what this is all about about, as for trolling, who's the troll the poster or the reader?, let me give you a clue i don't watch East Enders or any soap for that matter and don't moan about the content

back to thread

Ryanair have found that the No2 & No 3 low cost carriers are stealing a march on them, they have diagnosed that the reason for this is perceived poor customer service amongst other thing and wish to take a bigger share of the business market and to do this they need to move to main stream airports of which PIK is not one of them. opening in GLA will kill the loads at PIK and make the whole FR situation there pointless, it may hold on to seasonal destinations but the pax volume will not be enough to cover DOC

There is off course other business at the airport but none requires an expensive rebuild of the terminal or will generate car park revenue or any none related revenue, then we come to the who pays and yes the politic's of the left, even the centre left, Scotland is a beautiful country, but its basically socialist in it's leaning and here we are again seeing a centre left Government spending other peoples money on vanity projects that do not benefit the people of Scotland other than those directly/indirectly employed at PIK, its all well and good arguing that they are protecting local jobs, but this is the same Government that if granted independence will toast 8000 jobs at Faslane

Let see what happens in the fall

[12-30 Wind Sock]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

[Andy_S]

12 - 30 Wind Sock,

If you've nothing constructive to say, then I suggest you say nothing at all. You make yourself look 13, rather than 33.

[12-30 Wind Sock]

Andy ........... Ssssssssshhhhhhhh

[Aluminium shuffler]

There seem to be some here that think RYR owe PIK something and should be operating from both PIK and GLA, stating that it could do so. Well, yes it could, but as a business, should it? Arguing that opening up a full schedule at GLA won't severely dent the yeild of a full PIK schedule is entirely unrealistic, and why would any business attempt to compete with itself? Having two bases in such proximity is useful if yields are high enough, such as LTN and STN, but in this case that isn't going to work. RYR is a business, not a charity, and so has to go where the yields will be highest, which is also where their competition also are. Not only is GLA closer to the city, but it has better transport links and so a wider catchment. It also means RYR can pick up other airlines' customers on connections, widening the catchment further. PIK is just not economically viable, especially serving just one customer.

It's sad to see airport closures and even sadder for those whose jobs are affected, but economics are ruthless. I wish those who will be affected the very best of luck - I have been in that position a few times and know just how distressing it can be, especially when supporting families.

[Cyrano]

Originally Posted by Aluminium shuffler

There seem to be some here that think RYR owe PIK something and should be operating from both PIK and GLA, stating that it could do so. Well, yes it could, but as a business, should it?

This is a fair point. Arguably there is one reason why RYR should split its operations, namely the ability to periodically play GLA and PIK off against each other for the best possible deal. You can be sure that GLA has delivered a very aggressive deal to win the RYR services on this occasion, and you can also be sure that RYR will threaten PIK with the loss of more Summer 2015 services to GLA if the PIK charges don't fall, while simultaneously threatening GLA that some flights will be moved back to PIK if the GLA charges don't fall.

RYR also has a vested interest in keeping at least a minimal service into PIK since otherwise it would have to position aircraft in and out for maintenance. (Of course, it would be typical of Ryanair to ask GLA to cover the positioning costs of the aircraft as part of the deal to set up operations in GLA. Outrageous? Yes, and I'm not saying they'll have got that, but if you don't ask, you don't get... )

[LTNman]

So if the terminal was closed with all the savings that could make would the airport breakeven?

Unlike the airports that surround London that are at a similar distance from the City they claim to serve Prestwick lacks a large local population to partially sustain it and where Prestwick is their most convenient airport.

The sad truth is that again unlike London, Glasgow does not need more than one airport so what is the point of keeping it open for passengers with the extra costs that involves when there are next to no passengers going to be using it?

I visited Prestwick maybe around 4 years ago and really liked its old fashion feel about it but then I am an old timer. Even if the old terminal was knocked down and some smaller modern terminal was built would it make any sort of difference to passenger totals?

[Facelookbovvered]

LTNman

Like you, its a few years since i visited PIK pax terminal and i gather not much has changed, i don't think people are not using PIK because of this or indeed airlines are not flying to PIK because of the terminal, i think the decline is down to changes in the industry beyond the control of PIK management ditto the Scottish administration. These changes are irreversible, we are not going to see GLA/EDI become home to hordes of legacy airlines demanding world class facilities, in fact the opposite is far more likely, if LoCo's continue to up their game and keep costs under control then it will put ever more pressure on legacy airlines.

The challenge for PIK is how to lower its costs? the old terminal needs to come down and be replaced with one of these modern tent type buildings, it need only be staffed and heated when needed, vending machines can replace shops, ditto automated check in machines can replace check in desks, with the few Ryanair flights planned the same person doing the bag drop/checkin can after its closed at STD -40 can go to the gate to check/scan boarding cards/self printed tickets, this is done all over Europe and not just at small airports.

Government funding for demolition of the old building (probably full of asbestos) wouldn't raise eyebrows and local funding for a posh tent and automation shouldn't be an issue either.

A bigger challenge would be reducing ATC staffing costs, ditto fire cover, the another problem is the sheer size of the place, how do you shrink an airport, if you keep the size then you keep the bills that go with it, resurfacing, snow clearing, de icing, grass cutting, airfield security? i would drop the length to 2500m ILS on one end only and Baro LNAV/VNAV approach on both ends which are close to precision approach minima and require no onsite maintenance/calibration, 95% of any commercial transports ( the people who will foot the bills) can operate without any on field avionics and its daily stuff for Ryanair, ditto the biz jets en route to the golf course.

[ScotsSLF]

That's a very constructive post FLB although I would be unsure about the shortening of the main runway. I see where you're coming from but 12/30 is one of PIK's key strengths and the main reason its used as a heavy freight airport (fully laden 747-4s, 8s, & AN-124s etc) and a designated diversion / emergency airfield. Shorten this and you take away the 'heavy load' uniqueness and leave Scotland without this capacity. Now if the frieght side is also loss making and even growing this still does not generate a decent return then that's a different story.

[Skipness One Echo]

It was cargo which drove PIK's profits back in the post BAA years, they were very succesful in attracting the likes of Cargolux, Lufthansa, Polar, Atlas Air and later Air France and Singapore Sadly only Cargolux and Air France remain from what used to be a very strong portfolio which the recent management team seemed unable to hang onto. This allowed them to be able to afford Ryanair as it were !
Even FedEx departed for Stansted, perhaps the air cargo boom may have a bubble just like the loco passenger one. Cargolux moved from MSE to STN with a few days notice, it's a big decision but am glad to see the questions facing the business are being framed properly.

[INeedTheFull90]

To be honest people are just bored about prices and schedules. I very much doubt anyone considers the state and appearance of a terminal before they buy a ticket. If that were true the Luton would have shut a long time ago! But it is going from strength to strength. A cheap SEN/BOH style terminal would be suitable I suppose (or even CPH GO! style) but you couldn't justify it. GLA is not running at capacity, there is no need for a second airport.

[4eyed anorak]

What are the chances of PIK being chosen as the new spaceport for UK?

[Joe Curry]

Former Royal Air Force station Machrihanish seems likely?

[12-30 Wind Sock]

Ground Control to Major Tom
Ground Control to Major Tom
Take your protein pills
and put your helmet on

Ground Control to Major Tom
Commencing countdown,
engines on
Check ignition
and may God's love be with you


Ten, Nine, Eight, Seven, Six, Five, Four, Three, Two, One, Liftoff

This is Ground Control
to Major Tom
You've really made the grade
And the papers want to know whose shirts you wear
Now it's time to leave the capsule
if you dare

This is Major Tom to Ground Control
I'm stepping through the door
And I'm floating
in a most peculiar way
And the stars look very different today

For here
Am I sitting in a tin can
Far above the world
Planet Earth is blue
And there's nothing I can do

[VickersVicount]

Campeltown ?- a disused damaged main runway with dire public transport connections and at least 2 hours away from any main industry... Mmm Im not so sure its likely. Leuchars on NQY I say.

[Skipness One Echo]

Campeltown ?- a disused damaged main runway with dire public transport connections and at least 2 hours away from any main industry... Mmm Im not so sure its likely.

CAL is still used as a commercial airport by Loganair, just in case anyone gets the impression it closed with the RAF leaving.

[ScotsSLF]

PAX survive for S15

Looks like FR have committed to PIK for S15. 44 return flights. No details of destinations but assume Med sun spots. 3 based aircraft?

[FRatSTN]

81 return flights this year down to 44 next year is still quite a drop. Last year was up to 99 a week.


It's about the same amount they have operated in previous winter schedules so I'd say 2 based aircraft with maybe a bit of inbound flying.