PRESTWICK
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Ireland
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"Time PIK started to look elsewhere for buisness - it is out there!!"
CabinCrewe, where exactly in the above sentence does it state that they are easy pickings. Perhaps you should read the post properly before retorting. It would be interesting to hear how you are such a expert on all things Prestwick.
Skipness - you post a lot of good stuff, but on this occasion I have to disagree. I don`t believe it`s Ryanair or nothing for passengers. Yes it will be a hard slog, but I believe PIK can attract more passenger traffic.
CabinCrewe, where exactly in the above sentence does it state that they are easy pickings. Perhaps you should read the post properly before retorting. It would be interesting to hear how you are such a expert on all things Prestwick.
Skipness - you post a lot of good stuff, but on this occasion I have to disagree. I don`t believe it`s Ryanair or nothing for passengers. Yes it will be a hard slog, but I believe PIK can attract more passenger traffic.
Great.
Then GLA comes along and says "OK, we'll match or beat the incentives - we're privately owned so don't have State Aid constraints. Oh, and have you seen how big our 1-hour catchment is compared to PIK?"
Game over.
If I were GLA, I would be doing exactly that - systematically ensuring that I offered the best possible deal to any carrier considering PIK. That's business.
Ambition for an airport is great, but it has to be founded on something. For passenger service, what advantages can PIK offer an airline compared to GLA? (Railway station doesn't count. "Lack of congestion" doesn't count. For an airline, it's about market size, revenue potential, and operating costs.)
That's a genuine, sincere question, by the way. I have a perception of PIK vs GLA based on having flown through both, but I wouldn't claim to be an expert. That probably makes me not dissimilar to the network planners in the airlines you mention. So what are the arguments which would cause Europe Airpost or Norwegian or Westjet or any other passenger carrier to choose PIK over GLA?
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London (Babylon-on-Thames)
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I don`t believe it`s Ryanair or nothing for passengers. Yes it will be a hard slog, but I believe PIK can attract more passenger traffic.
In the likely market in short haul, the opportunity from UK based operators :
Thomson
Thomas Cook
Jet2
Monarch
easyJet- stated they're not interested
All bar monarch have existing bases at GLA and Monarch do a fair amount of ad-hoc work from there. I can't see anyone except maybe MON having a go in Ayrshire with a split GLA/PIK operation. Actually Airtours/ myTravel used to run a split GLA/PIK operation, in both short and long haul in the years they were having their major identity crisis, however that's not something I expect to see again.The best chance was for a core based PIK operation was flyglobespan who then upped and moved to GLA after one season.
There used to be to be a fair bit of inbound sun flights from the Spanairs, Air Europas, LTEs, Iberworlds and Futuras of this world, but they've mainly either gone bust or moved into scheduled markets. This was in the days when the PIK Ryanair operation was operating to other markets from PIK, mainly European city break types, now that Ryanair are entrenched in sun markets at PIK it's very hard to see anyone going up against them. Their cost base is rock bottom and their market share is huge. They are also well known for predatory behaviour when people try to muscle in as they see it.
So I think UK based short haul is out, foreign inbound sun charters would be up against Ryanair which leaves long haul where GLA would, as I said offer a better deal for much better facilities and access to Glasgow just to make sure PIK didn't get a look in. When NWA pulled GLA-BOS, PIK offered them a pretty good deal, which even at rock bottom levels was not enough to tempt them to re-consider. I think the loco growth of the late 20th, early 21st century may have been a bubble which now it has matured, has moved on and settled down. PIK succeeded with so many Ryanair passengers because BAA wouldn't make the deal FR wanted at EDI. Once that was done, the existing PIK route structure was moved East for higher yields and PIK got into a full scale battle for the West Coast Scotland to the sun market.
That's a different battle entirely in my view which is why they're struggling as the only thing they can beat GLA on is price and the only company that's in that market segment is Ryanair. The real danger is if GLA just makes FR an unbeatable deal on the grounds FR can keep the maintenance facility at PIK by operating a single lunchtime DUB-PIK and move the rest to GLA. It's a vicious circle, however I think FR also know this, have PIK by the balls and won't feel the need to move while that's the case.
I know it's a shame to see Prestwick with its big Govt owned runway in an area with low population (and thus annoying fewer people over noise) struggling, but I'd suggest that a resurgent GLA v EDI battle is a good thing.
While BAA owned both EDI and GLA it had the capacity to act as a monopolist with its grip on catchment, creating an opportunity for PIK
Now that competition exists between GLA and EDI, airlines can fly from airports near people's homes and offices rather than artificially making people trek out somewhere more remote - a bit like Tesco opening on the High Street which you can combine with the rest of your shopping, rather than an out-of-town store that kills the local High Street
In effect, both passengers and airline staff gain convenience. Is that really such a bad thing ?
While BAA owned both EDI and GLA it had the capacity to act as a monopolist with its grip on catchment, creating an opportunity for PIK
Now that competition exists between GLA and EDI, airlines can fly from airports near people's homes and offices rather than artificially making people trek out somewhere more remote - a bit like Tesco opening on the High Street which you can combine with the rest of your shopping, rather than an out-of-town store that kills the local High Street
In effect, both passengers and airline staff gain convenience. Is that really such a bad thing ?
Join Date: Nov 2010
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Two good realistically posts from Cyrano and SOE. In the short term it's a must that PIK secure FR in terms of PAX operations as well as look to expand the sun locations that FR don't operate into such as Turkey (small operation secured for March) , Bulgaria, Mainland Greece & non FR Islands such as Kos and Zante, Croatia, North Africa etc. At the same time the other aspects of airfield operations such as cargo, maintenance, tech/ fuel stops, delivery, training, GA, military, storage & breaking must also be actively developed. These areas are not the core focus of GLA and EDI
Last edited by ScotsSLF; 11th Jan 2014 at 12:44.
Chieftan o'the Pudden Race
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Pure dead gone! Brilliant!
The final letter from the idiotic 'pure dead brilliant' slogan is removed from the front of the terminal.
The final letter from the idiotic 'pure dead brilliant' slogan is removed from the front of the terminal.
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Just the "Glasgow" to come off the sign next....
That spot to central Glasgow is dual carriageway and motorway all the way, 45 minutes on a bad day.
Sorry am I letting facts get in the way of your cleverness?
Join Date: Nov 2002
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Won't hold my breath on that one , particularly now that Cityjet are at Glasgow and they are in "cahoots" with Intersky. In fact , couldn't they be the same airline by next winter ?
Join Date: Mar 2010
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Abbotsinch,Scotland
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Swiss CH Aviation has the Intersky ski flights operating to GLA.
InterSky to operate Berne - UK ski charters in Winter 2014/15 - ch-aviation.com
InterSky to operate Berne - UK ski charters in Winter 2014/15 - ch-aviation.com
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Easyjet was in PIK yesterday too, and Jet2 were doing circuits all day on Tuesday and yesterday too.
PIK is a very popular airport for aircraft base training with many airlines. Base training is when pilots newly trained on a new type of aircraft do their first flight on the real aircraft and perform a minimum of 6 takeoffs and landings (or touch and go) until a training captain is satisfied that they are proficient at it.
Base training has very benign weather requirements (VFR, little crosswind, etc) so on days like today and yesterday PIK was perfect, combined with quiet airspace, a long runway and probably competitive landing charges. PIK is only one of 2 airports that FR uses for base training these days (other being EMA). Others like Shannon in Ireland are popular with many airlines too for the same reasons.
PIK is a very popular airport for aircraft base training with many airlines. Base training is when pilots newly trained on a new type of aircraft do their first flight on the real aircraft and perform a minimum of 6 takeoffs and landings (or touch and go) until a training captain is satisfied that they are proficient at it.
Base training has very benign weather requirements (VFR, little crosswind, etc) so on days like today and yesterday PIK was perfect, combined with quiet airspace, a long runway and probably competitive landing charges. PIK is only one of 2 airports that FR uses for base training these days (other being EMA). Others like Shannon in Ireland are popular with many airlines too for the same reasons.
Join Date: Jul 2010
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Citywing into Glasgow
I see Citywing are to commence the Glasgow route from March 31st after talks with the Alex Salmond in the summer, just wondering if recently, since EGPK is now government owned they tried to get Citywing to go their instead?
Flights between Scotland and Isle of Man take off | Citywing News
Flights between Scotland and Isle of Man take off | Citywing News
Join Date: Nov 2000
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As a Reginald S Potter in my youth, I used to hang out at PIK (and GLA and EDI) and have very fond memories of being on the spectators' balcony at PIK watching Pan AM 707s and DC8s, KLM, SAS and Air Canada DC8s, Caledonian Britannias and 707s etc, but then was then and now is now. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the most economic future for PIK is to give up on trying to compete with GLA and EDI for pax traffic, close the terminal and lose all the costs related to handing pax traffic and concentrate on its other activities.
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wombat by name Wombat by nature. PIK are not trying to compete with GLA and EDI, The sole purpose of PIK is to try and improve Pax number each year and to attract new business into the airport so that eventually the airport makes a profit. To close down the terminal is just crazy , And what other activities ? Its a Airport first and foremost which requires a terminal then other activities can then be looked at to bring in extra funds.
All ideas Welcome
All ideas Welcome