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Excel Airways

Old 10th Nov 2006, 19:07
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Potato man

XL flying on a BA flight number may well not be part of the contract with BA but I don't think that it is "illegal".

XL are not braking any laws, however GB might be braking the contract with BA but if so thats GB's problem not XL's
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Old 10th Nov 2006, 19:31
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Is anybody breaking any rules?
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Old 11th Nov 2006, 10:32
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BPM

There is a whole lot of difference in wet leasing an aircraft for the summer (6 months) and the occassional sub charter for day to day operational disruptions.

One is catered for in the agreement, the other isn't, hence thats why its illegal.
Call the cops
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Old 12th Nov 2006, 17:04
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Understood re bases - it has obviously changed since I last heard something!

Something which is illegal breaks a law. There is no law against GB doing this. If it breaks an agreement that GB have with British Airways, that does not make it illegal - it makes it a breach of an agreement and BA could act as it saw fit with whatever terms are included in that agreement to deal with breaches of it by either party.

If GB's franchise agreement is like the others, they will be able to lease-in capacity to operate under BA flight numbers for an indefinite period provided that:

1/ It conducts a full operational audit of the intended lessor of the aircraft (which it would need to do under JAR-Ops anyway) and maintains oversight of the safe operation to its own standards during the period of the lease;

2/ BA is content that the branding and product spec on the leased aircraft does not compromise the usual service offered to customers versus BA norm;

3/ BA gives its permission to the lease.

In reality, are BA really going to be that bothered about this that they will try to stop it?

If you are unhappy about this, I think it is also worthwhile considering another point. GB is apparently leasing this 737-800 because it doesn't want to extend the lease on G-TTOA. It needs the aircraft for Summer 2007 but thereafter doesn't have any use for it, so it is a six-month expedient. If previous posts are to be believed, the leasing company has said that they will extend but only for six years.

I appreciate that a six-month wet-lease is not helpful to pilot progression prospects, but stopping it could have other consequences. Stuffing your employer up with 5.5 years of lease rentals of (probably around) $300,000 per month for an aircraft that it doesn't need or want will not do much for your job prospects either. Surely there are also benefits to getting 'OA out of the fleet in terms of a more stable lifestyle anyway?
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Old 13th Nov 2006, 19:59
  #105 (permalink)  
 
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Until recently i was v keen on GB especially as i had heard that they were looking for DEC's. Turns out that they're not but having had a few beers this weekend with my current and a couple of ex GB contacts i have been advised that i am far better off seeing my impending pension date with my current employer. Shame as it wasn't that long ago that my contacts were singing their praises and i was looking for my final 5 years to be in short haul.
I'm sorry BPM but my contacts have been with GB for much much longer than your 7 or 8 months and there are concerns about the numbers of FO's suitable for command if significant further expansion were announced. Not that it will bother me now anyway!
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Old 14th Nov 2006, 09:00
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R3Hard

are you suggesting that in my "7 or 8 months" i'm not savvy enough to understand the seniority system or command criteria?

Unless you know of 'significant expansion' that we don't then there are definately enough suitable people to fill commands for the projected expansion of the airline in line with the a/c orders.

And by the way, i've been in this game for 16 years now.

Cheers

BPM
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Old 14th Nov 2006, 18:35
  #107 (permalink)  
 
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Xl @ Ema

Does anyone know what is happening with excel at EMA. I thought that XL intend to end their operations from there. I know that they have been using a MD-83 over the summer season and now are using a Viking aircraft. I was just wondering if anyone has any info.

Thanks
SAM-EMA
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Old 14th Nov 2006, 20:21
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Hi sam, XL will continue to sell flights and package holidays from EMA as it has apparently been a very successful base for the past two years they have been doing so, but as in past years the airline will not base their own aircraft here. In 2005 it was Air Scandic, the in 2006 it was UKJet (somehow Greek registered but Swedish owned) who used the old Scandic MD-83 aircraft just a new splash of paint. Next summer the bulk of flying is expected to be done by one week-long based bmi charter A320 as well as another A320 based for some of the week, then Air Malta for one or two further flights.
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Old 14th Nov 2006, 21:38
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BPM, 16 years eh, i assume you are including your years as cabin crew in that? I would have thought that after 16 years you would be a captain yourself!! Next time my TRE(E) ticket is up for renewal i'll be in touch for advice as my 38 years on the trident, 1-11, 737, 747,75/67, 777 can't count for much. I will also have to ignore the advice and opinions from my very good friends who are your trainers on how GB is set for future captains. No more from me - goodbye.

Last edited by Hawk; 14th Nov 2006 at 22:19. Reason: outing
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Old 14th Nov 2006, 23:07
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R3Hard.

sorry if i sounded too flippant in my last reply - didn't mean to.

Did you really 'out' me???

no hard feelings on my part

BPM

Last edited by beauport potato man; 14th Nov 2006 at 23:10. Reason: my spelling is not the best
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Old 15th Nov 2006, 07:51
  #111 (permalink)  
 
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BPM. No worries, none on my part either. Maybe i just misinterpreted the written word.
I didn't out anyone so am a little intrigued why Mr Hawk got involved, i just included your initials so maybe he was upset with that.
Trouble with being part time these days is that you can end up with too much time on your hands! Never thought that i would say that.

Safe Flying.
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Old 15th Nov 2006, 18:03
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Thanks for the info bmibaby

Cheers SAM-EMA
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Old 15th Nov 2006, 21:24
  #113 (permalink)  
 
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The bmi A320 based in EMA has gone - it isn't there next year. The aircraft has been contracted to MyTravel based in LBA for next year. Excel EMA flying (what there is of it) will be flown by Air Malta, but it's a much reduced programme compared to the combined bmi and Viking programmes of S06.
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Old 16th Nov 2006, 10:13
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is there any more info released on XL adding 744's to their fleet for next year, I believe there was rumoured two ex ANA birds supposed to be arriving although there has been nothing more for a few months.
or is it because they are rumoured to be getting 2 x A330-200's ( 767 replacement )and these can be used in conjunction with but not to replace the existing 743's.

Last edited by afterdark; 17th Nov 2006 at 09:31.
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Old 16th Nov 2006, 10:54
  #115 (permalink)  
 
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Lgw-hrg

Any kind soul know what aircraft type LGW-HRG will be operated by June 2007? - The old 743's were used quite a bit over the past years.

Appears to have been reduced from 3 flights each Friday to just the one this year?

Cheers!
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Old 16th Nov 2006, 19:25
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Originally Posted by chip butty
two flights planned this year on fri - XLA5984/5 B767, and XLA5048/9 B738
Cheers chip butty.

It's odd as Libra have an 09.30 departure, going places have an 11:45 departure, XL.com has a 13:30 departure all supposidly with XL.

I called XL and was told one flight on the friday dep at 11.30 then called later and got told one flight, the 13:30 so who knows what/which I'll end up on as I am probably going to book via going places
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Old 18th Nov 2006, 14:00
  #117 (permalink)  
 
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Smile XL Orders A330s

Excel Airways have placed an order for 2 A330-200 aircraft, with options on a further 3. They will be leased from CIT Aerospace. When I found this I was very surprised because I was expecting XL to order Boeing 787s. It will be a good mix: B737-800s, B737-900s and A330-200s. The B737s will repace the B757s, the A330s will replace the B767s and then there are the B747s.

SAM-EMA
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Old 22nd Nov 2006, 20:30
  #118 (permalink)  
 
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Devil XL 757s

The 2 757s GVKNB/C have been air tested at Man and are going to the states to be parked up untill they are converted in to SF200 Freighter Versions, and not to Fly Globespan.
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Old 12th Dec 2006, 18:04
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Excel A330's

In this months "Airliner Magazine" (what a spotter eh??!!) it talks about XL leasing 2 x A330's from some leasing firm of who's name i can't remember.

Does anyone know anymore about their whereabouts or plans?

Not that i'm airbus rated and looking around, you understand ;-)

BPM
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Old 12th Dec 2006, 23:14
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beauport potato man

Reported months ago, and although leased may come direct from Airbus
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