Flybe

[jettesen]

well isn't it now the responsibility of the airport to provide enough staff to cope with that? After all, the airport is the one who trys to attract potential airlines, and if they can't provide the facilities....................then........... that's their problem NOT the airline

[five zero by ortac]

enough staff?

Enough staff - can someone tell that to BAA at LHR
I always thought this crazy means of raising fares would create loads more cabin baggage - and it has!
Can they actually stop the loco's from doing this?

[tangocharlie]

I personally dont agree with Flybe's policy, but they could point out to the authorities, to use the staff from 'Hold Baggage Screening' as they are sending less bags down the baggage belt!

[Riverboat]

Charging for checked-in baggage seems logical to me, as it allows fares to be lower for people that only have hand baggage. Just think about the whole process of flying from one place to another, and compare the difference between flying with only hand baggage and with a checked in bag. If you do the latter, the whole thing becomes much more tedious and there is every chance of your bag being lost. I heard the other day that 300m bags were lost at airports last year!

Also from the airline's point of view, it would much rather pax had no bags to check in, as it would save a lot of time. And with self-service check-in, they could do away with bag drops and the cost that baggage handling entails.

Furthermore, there would be less baggage trucks and trolleys banging into aircraft causing thousands of pound's worth of damage.

It would be wonderful to be able to travel without checking in bags, but, of course, it is not possible. There are many who will have to check in bags. But surely, if you follow the LCC principle, the additional cost of baggage handling should reasonably be borne by those who are checking in bags, and those that aren't should get a lower fare.

As regards the DfT, they may have written to Flybe. They have also written to every other airline in Britain, and Aerodrome Managers, stating that they "recommend" that airport managers do not allow cabin baggage exceeding 45" in overall dimensions to pass through central search.

The point they make is fair enough, but often one has to rush to the gate with one's suitcase because one is either late checking in, or have been on stand-by, and if LHR, in particular, stopped people from taking their suitcases through central search, I can see Willie's policy of Push for Punctuality will ensure that a lot of stand-by pax will fail to get to the BA gate in time.

This circular from TRANSEC is typical of what is going on in the world (and in Britain in particular) today. Rules, rules, rules. They are going to "pay special attention to this issue and monitor compliance to ensure that standards are not compromised" etc etc. Has a very nasty ring about it.

[Arkroyal]

There is also the problem of weight to consider, as hand baggage is included in the standard pax weight which is already ludicrously generous.

Had the daft occurance today of a bag which wouldn't fit the overhead locker having to be put in the hold. Sudenly it weighs something and had to be LMCd on the loadsheet

[Epsilon minus]

The LCC priciple of charging for checked in bags is a nonsense and has more to do with the EU ruling on subsidies and therefore downward pressure on yields than the LCC's would have us know.
Why not offer the opportunity for pax to save money and load their own bags or mail them to their final destination prior to their flight. At least the bags would get closer to where the pax wants to be than Ryan air ever could.
It's a strange concept from an air carrier perspective, bit like Ford selling a car with the wheels as an optional extra . I suppose one other option would be to load the pax in H1&2 and put all the bags for free in the cabin.
Is the Transec circular available on the net? I'd like to read it.

[graphitestick]

Regarding carry on baggage there are many things to consider. For starters it's not the size that causes queues at security but quantity. If Joe Bloggs turns up with one bag fine but usually he will have a bag, a boots carrier bag, a whsmith bag, a computer bag and then suddenly remember his mobile in his pocket which gives a total of 5 items being xrayed, no wonder there are queues. Hold luggage should not be screened through the usual hand luggage system by DFT regulations.Hold luggage screening is often done by a different company to the hand luggage so the staff can't swop around to help with any queues, and boy there will be some corkers come summer.

[Mister Geezer]

Charging for bags won't work. Had the dubious pleasure of having to fly Ryanair recently and some of the trolley bags that were being taken on were taking up more than half an overhead bin - and that is before the charge has been implemented!!!

Ryanair are hot on leaving on time if not early but I can't help but feel that this new scheme will back fire on their punctuality record. Probably on most flights there will be a lot more cabin baggage than normal and it is not going to fit in the bins or under the seat so then the bags need to be tagged and taken off and placed into he hold - thus taking time. Does the passenger then have to be forced to pay for his bag to be placed in the hold - It is Ryanair after all!

[sky9]

This clever idea will backfire badly when the first heavy landing drops 20kg bags onto the heads of some unsuspecting passenger.

Time and time again in the past Accident Reports have noted that overhead bins have failed to remain closed on a landing. Has something changed in the design of lockers or do the people who have these bright ideas know everthing about yeld management and nothing about flight safety?

[WHBM]

Originally Posted by Riverboat

Charging for checked-in baggage seems logical to me, as it allows fares to be lower for people that only have hand baggage.

This is a bit of a non sequitur, speaking as a very regular business travel pax, as those without bags tend to be the business travellers who book the day before and are travelling at high fares. It is the families who manage to book long in advance for the "penny" fares who are the ones who bring everything with them. I would guess that maybe carriers are finding it is costing them more just to handle the bags for these passengers than they are taking in revenue. But lower fares for those of us in a suit with only a laptop ? Can't quite see that.

Originally Posted by sky9

This clever idea will backfire badly when the first heavy landing drops 20kg bags onto the heads of some unsuspecting passenger.

I cannot understand how the CAA show a continuing blind eye to this one. Many of us will have seen the bins open in turbulence or a firm landing and some contents come out. Myself I often have a heavy laptop up there, sometimes two (once three and a projector). We can't send these by hold baggage with mechanical handling as they would be broken, yet the airlines make no other provision for them. Don't forget I was saying we are the ones paying the highest fares in the cabin.

[Epsilon minus]

I cannot understand how the CAA show a continuing blind eye to this one.

Ryan Air operate under an Irish AOC therefore the CAA have no jurisdiction. your point, though, is a valid one. See my earlier post, you will be better off in the hold, the bags can go in the cabin for free.

[orangetree]

Easyjet have been operating a very generous hand baggage policy for over a year now. To compensate, the pax weight figures were increased. I am not aware that the DoT have tried to kybosh it but I can tell you that the system breaks down badly when check-in agents turn a blind eye to hand baggage size. Loads of it ends up in the hold anyway

[dustybin]

with regards to the increased allowence, i hope it stops as some flight are getting out of hand. It is supposed to be 10kg per pax but they are getting much more than that throught. Today i tried to put a passengers bag in the overhead locker but could not lift it above my head as so heavey, while the lady and her partner watch me and another passenger struggle with her bag, in the end i had to put it between seats.
I also have had a grown men aged around 40 in good health, 6ft tall, ask me to carry their heavy bags to the hold. This i don't mind for old, infirm or parents with children, but grown men expecting me to carry there heavey bags is not on.
For 1, they packed, carried it to and through the airport onto the aircraft, so why should i carry it to the hold.
2. I have not recieved training on how to carry and lift such bags, were as baggage handlers have.
3. If i was to carry and lift peoples excess bags on every sectors, i would end up with back problems. This would result in me being off work on sick pay, costing the tax payers money and me in discomfort.
I don't agree with the charge and think it unfair, as we need to think on a bigger scale, ok this may make the company money, but not making the customer happy or the crew. they even may up spending this extra cash on sick pay and medical bills. Lets see.

[VHF FLYER]

Charging for hold baggage has been nothing more than a marketing gimmick from the start. '...in the interests of transparency...blah blah yawn'.
I flew with FlyBe just recently from Man on a route that I normally use BA.
I only had hand baggage for a day trip but was dismayed to find a queue to get into the check in area. Reason: there was a lady with a clip board asking people their name and checking against a list on the clip board how much 'free' baggage and how much 'chargeable' baggage each person had. Then....you could join the queue for check-in where the operatives were dithering about how to deal with the charge/no charge situation.
How can this be 'low cost' ? they had to employ someone to do the queue check or at least divert her from something more productive and slowed the whole process down. It was more inefficient than Sheremetyevo Domestic.
And what's it all for? £1 per passenger or something? If you can't afford this, you can't afford to travel.
Overall the experience was so I've gone back to BA, which despite its other faults has got an uber efficient check in process.

[Epsilon minus]

BA, which despite its other faults has got an uber efficient check in process.

Not sure if that's a good or a bad thing

[VHF FLYER]

Originally Posted by Epsilon minus

Not sure if that's a good or a bad thing

Oh but it's excellent if you're a punter! Not so good if you (used to?) work in check-in.
Credit where credit's due to BA for the whole e-check in thing. They've really been innovative here without shouting their mouths off in a Lo-Co way.

[7006 fan]

What annoys me about this is that the LCC pax stand in the same queue as the 'flag carrier' pax, getting in theway with all their 'unrestricted' hand luggage, whilst we 'flag carrier' pax are limited to one small bag and sometimes a laptop (depends who one flies with). So the Airlines that pay the huge fees have pax who get help up at central search by the Airlines who pay F all landing fees etc and the pax who get cheap seats. To try and lump it on the Airport as their responsibility and problem (as suggested earlier) is not fair, central search security is not Check-in, therefore not a free handling agent, but in trhe eyes of LCC they are. Bloody daft if you ask me.
Best thing to do is, do away with security checks and handling for LCC provide a separate corridor where they form a disorganised queue, everyone chucks their bags on a trolley outside the aircraft, it is then loaded on the plane for a small fee, or alternatively the pax carries their bags on and, on a first come first served basis, deposit said bags anywhere once the overhead lockers are full, leaving the late arrivers to stand for the whole flight, if someone smuggles a bomb on board and the plane goes pop maybe a rethink would then be needed and people realise that all things cost money! A fact that is often overlooked in this 'customer always wants cheap (sorry value for money) -driven world we now all live in.

[Polehill.flt70]

Originally Posted by 7006 fan

central search security is not Check-in, therefore not a free handling agent, but in trhe eyes of LCC they are.

And sometimes the Airports think that as well. How many times is central search security seen as the cause of all queues, even the fast tracks are now 'none fast track' due to the added burden of LCC upgrades to get the last bit of money out of the pax, pay extra and get more leg room and go via fast track channel. So then you have business pax who have paid the earth to travel mixed with those who have not. Doesnt seem to work to me.

Agree with you on the point of letting them all just throw their luggage in/on, because believe me you just wanna grab them and say 'oy, i am not a lacky, you pays for what you get, do it yourself. You packed it, you can carry it/place it on the scanner/place it in the overhead locker etc'.

[6chimes]

Reducing the hold luggage means you need less baggage handlers....lower wage bill, charge for it...more money....yippee! Thats the accountants version.

Real version.

Minimum crew on board aircraft....(minimum crew is defined as being able to evacuate all the passengers in 90 seconds or less using only 50% of the doors, NOT the minimum amount of crew able to find space for stupid amounts of pax hand luggage in a short amount of time). So with minimum crew and more hand luggage it will take longer to board, then longer to get the bags that needed to be in the hold in the first place, down there. Oh and there are no baggage handlers as they are all on the dole....reality..delayed flight (punctuality stats gone t*ts up), angry pax (who can blame them) and stressed out crew. But the accountants dont see or feel it so its a good idea lets go for it.

6

[Leodis]

Some valid points there. From what I can tell, passengers are carrying far too much luggage in general. Just the other day I observed passengers in a Loco que carrying large picture frames, curtain poles and one passenger even had a B&Q flat-pack wardrobe. All these items couldn't go on the conveyor, so had to be carried around to the Out Sized Baggage Point, manually handled by security staff and x-rayed seperately. The situation looked like a complete joke. After they had checked in, the passengers then had to que for 20-30 minutes to process security CSZ. The Terminal Officer in the wings was trying to scuttle late passengers through the security Fast Track to make their flight.

So what is the answer? I would like to see the short era of post 9/11 The days when all the airlines limited hand luggage to a clear plastic bag of which the passenger was allowed to carry medication, money and a passport. Hold luggage should be limited to 20kg, no if's, no but's. Anything over 20kg should be charged at 20 pound a kilo.

Leodis