Aurigny Air Services
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Mr Falla might be interested to know that a very well-backed offer was made for the Aurigny Group about 18 months ago, at a very good value, by a group whose purpose was to invest heavily in growing it into a true Channel Islands airline, still head-quartered in Guernsey but serving UK and European routes from both main Islands.
The offer was rejected out of hand by the Minister responsible, on the grounds that the Group was profitable and growing (both untrue at that time, if you really looked at the numbers), and that the Guernsey taxpayers were ready and willing to continue carrying the risk. They were then, as now, largely unaware of the true exposure to loss facing each taxpayer as a result of their Government's actions.
Guernsey is now stuck with a failing Group with a competitor coming up fast on the sidelines. It didn't have to be like that. To argue that events were unforeseeable is ridiculous. Of course events are unforeseeable; that's why you do not use public funds to take massive risks, as Guernsey did over Aurigny and is continuing to do.
The offer was rejected out of hand by the Minister responsible, on the grounds that the Group was profitable and growing (both untrue at that time, if you really looked at the numbers), and that the Guernsey taxpayers were ready and willing to continue carrying the risk. They were then, as now, largely unaware of the true exposure to loss facing each taxpayer as a result of their Government's actions.
Guernsey is now stuck with a failing Group with a competitor coming up fast on the sidelines. It didn't have to be like that. To argue that events were unforeseeable is ridiculous. Of course events are unforeseeable; that's why you do not use public funds to take massive risks, as Guernsey did over Aurigny and is continuing to do.
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Capot
Call me paranoid if you like, but don't you think the real risk to the people of Guernsey is having flybe as the only carrier serving the island?
flybe's goal is (understandably) to be the number one (probably only) carrier serving the UK regions and they are well on their way to achieving that, with talks now going on over BMI Regional, leaving just Eastern, Aurigny and ASW to tackle. You can discount Blue Islands as a rich mans play thing that will die with him if not before.
Call me paranoid if you like, but don't you think the real risk to the people of Guernsey is having flybe as the only carrier serving the island?
flybe's goal is (understandably) to be the number one (probably only) carrier serving the UK regions and they are well on their way to achieving that, with talks now going on over BMI Regional, leaving just Eastern, Aurigny and ASW to tackle. You can discount Blue Islands as a rich mans play thing that will die with him if not before.
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FOG
The proposal that Guernsey rejected was nothing less than the creation of a really strong CI airline, on the exisiting foundation that the Aurigny Group offers plus a very large investment, that would ensure that a truly competitive situation would be maintained, particularly vis-a-vis Flybe.
Aurigny cannot survive indefintely as things are and all that Guernsey is doing by keeping it running in its present form at tax-payer expense and risk is artificially prolonging its life. Sooner or later this has to stop, and this will eventually mean that Flybe does become the sole supplier.
Guernsey should not and cannot use any more public funds than the millions so far spent on Aurigny, to finance the growth that Aurigny needs to survive.
Blue Islands could not win a price war against Flybe, just as Aurigny can't win that, even if your prognosis doesn't prove correct.
Unfortunately those in charge in Guernsey seem to prefer to gratify their egos by remaining in charge of an airline, using, of course, other peoples' money to maintain that position. When it eventually fails they'll blame everyone and everything except themselves.
At present Flybe is simply waiting for it all to drop into their hands; they have much greater priorities in any case.
The proposal that Guernsey rejected was nothing less than the creation of a really strong CI airline, on the exisiting foundation that the Aurigny Group offers plus a very large investment, that would ensure that a truly competitive situation would be maintained, particularly vis-a-vis Flybe.
Aurigny cannot survive indefintely as things are and all that Guernsey is doing by keeping it running in its present form at tax-payer expense and risk is artificially prolonging its life. Sooner or later this has to stop, and this will eventually mean that Flybe does become the sole supplier.
Guernsey should not and cannot use any more public funds than the millions so far spent on Aurigny, to finance the growth that Aurigny needs to survive.
Blue Islands could not win a price war against Flybe, just as Aurigny can't win that, even if your prognosis doesn't prove correct.
Unfortunately those in charge in Guernsey seem to prefer to gratify their egos by remaining in charge of an airline, using, of course, other peoples' money to maintain that position. When it eventually fails they'll blame everyone and everything except themselves.
At present Flybe is simply waiting for it all to drop into their hands; they have much greater priorities in any case.
Last edited by Capot; 13th Dec 2008 at 13:41.
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The states probably rejected a bid for aurigny 18 months ago because they were making a profit last year. Why sell an airline that had made money for the previous few years?
This year nearly every airline has struggled to make a profit with many going bankrupt because of the extreme set of circumstances that everyone has had to operate under and nobody managed to predict!
This year nearly every airline has struggled to make a profit with many going bankrupt because of the extreme set of circumstances that everyone has had to operate under and nobody managed to predict!
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Why sell an airline that had made money for the previous few years?
Any accountant will tell you that over the short term you can always present a much rosier picture than the reality, without breaking any rules, and any good accountant can always spot when this is done, given access to the data. But it catches up with you, and that's where Aurigny now is, exactly as was predicted at that time against denials by the airline's owner.
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People don't like change when they're settled in and comfortable. They don't want to think about having to look for something new which may mean upheaval and moving elsewhere. I can understand that some want to believe what they are told but the writing is now on the wall. The management will wind it up when the time is right without giving a **** about the employees. The State will pay their pensions and all other obligations. Doesn't hurt the management one bit.
Aurigny will have extreme difficulty getting through this year without major changes occurring. The true figures are emerging and they do not make good reading if you are a tax-payer or an accountant.
Blueislands will always be criticised for being a "rich man's plaything" by those who don't want to accept that a company which was started because Aurigny pissed off a cargo customer on Alderney has survived, expanded and established itself as a local company with a future. Boohoo, get over it.
Has it occurred to anyone out there that the person running Blueislands has a great deal of experience of marketing and business strategy?
The only people who have anything to say about it are those at the top. Everybody else can pretend but it's a waste of time so why bother?
The underlying issue is not who is making money and who is not, it is who can keep going longer to make it profitable in the end. Aurigny will not be backed by the states for ever because the situation is becoming untenable.
If people are jealous of somebody else's wealth then do something about it and make your own. The days of comfy jobs for life and pensions are over.
Aurigny will have extreme difficulty getting through this year without major changes occurring. The true figures are emerging and they do not make good reading if you are a tax-payer or an accountant.
Blueislands will always be criticised for being a "rich man's plaything" by those who don't want to accept that a company which was started because Aurigny pissed off a cargo customer on Alderney has survived, expanded and established itself as a local company with a future. Boohoo, get over it.
Has it occurred to anyone out there that the person running Blueislands has a great deal of experience of marketing and business strategy?
The only people who have anything to say about it are those at the top. Everybody else can pretend but it's a waste of time so why bother?
The underlying issue is not who is making money and who is not, it is who can keep going longer to make it profitable in the end. Aurigny will not be backed by the states for ever because the situation is becoming untenable.
If people are jealous of somebody else's wealth then do something about it and make your own. The days of comfy jobs for life and pensions are over.
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Blueplume
from my information Aurigny staff never have had a state pension, aka a civil servant, just a money purchase scheme and standard pension the same as any other person in work in Guernsey.
jobs for life don't exist either. Aurigny was always a good company to work for and the staff looked after(so rarely left) although things has changed over the last few years, as now it is state owned management have to be accountable even if some of their decisions recently haven't proved to be the most profitable (ie the shed) to the States of Guernsey.
Blue Islands with their excellent product and Aurigny should be able to both make a profit offering a reliable service to both locals and visitors on the various routes and should not get into silly immature spats. There is a much bigger operator which would like to see both operators disappear for their own non local gain.
from my information Aurigny staff never have had a state pension, aka a civil servant, just a money purchase scheme and standard pension the same as any other person in work in Guernsey.
jobs for life don't exist either. Aurigny was always a good company to work for and the staff looked after(so rarely left) although things has changed over the last few years, as now it is state owned management have to be accountable even if some of their decisions recently haven't proved to be the most profitable (ie the shed) to the States of Guernsey.
Blue Islands with their excellent product and Aurigny should be able to both make a profit offering a reliable service to both locals and visitors on the various routes and should not get into silly immature spats. There is a much bigger operator which would like to see both operators disappear for their own non local gain.
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hapzim
You're absolutely correct, Flybe would very much like to see both disppear.
My point is that there is no point in wishing for things to change. If changes are not made then Aurigny will be in a lot of trouble and may be forced to give something up. It will be painful but will probably be the only way to ensure survival.
Nothing wrong with the brand, just needs sprucing up a bit.
You're absolutely correct, Flybe would very much like to see both disppear.
My point is that there is no point in wishing for things to change. If changes are not made then Aurigny will be in a lot of trouble and may be forced to give something up. It will be painful but will probably be the only way to ensure survival.
Nothing wrong with the brand, just needs sprucing up a bit.
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A comment about FlyBe: this too started off as a "rich man's plaything". Johnny Walker was the rich man, and I think even he would be surprised about how big it has become.
There is some sort of unpleasant business ethos lurking in FlyBe, which I cannot decide whether it is good or bad. On the face of it it is bad, but I guess they feel they have to do it. And that is to encroach on other operator's routes and bully their way to the prime position on it. They have done it in Scotland and Cornwall and probably other places as well.
Another point about the fares on FlyBe usually being higher than AY on the LGW route. FlyBe are not a low cost airline, whatever they like to say about it. Their yield management is excellent and they charge quite a lot of money for tickets. They are regularly higher than BA on the JER-LGW route, and it is hard to get a cheap ticket on any route out of Birmingham, BHX-GCI/JER being examples.
Passengers fly on their flights because in the UK no-one has heard of Aurigny. If they had heard of it, they wouldn't be able to pronounce it! FlyBe is relatively well known, whilst Aurigny isn't. Therefore FlyBe can attract more UK emanating passengers, and, of course, these pax have to fly back again.
There is some sort of unpleasant business ethos lurking in FlyBe, which I cannot decide whether it is good or bad. On the face of it it is bad, but I guess they feel they have to do it. And that is to encroach on other operator's routes and bully their way to the prime position on it. They have done it in Scotland and Cornwall and probably other places as well.
Another point about the fares on FlyBe usually being higher than AY on the LGW route. FlyBe are not a low cost airline, whatever they like to say about it. Their yield management is excellent and they charge quite a lot of money for tickets. They are regularly higher than BA on the JER-LGW route, and it is hard to get a cheap ticket on any route out of Birmingham, BHX-GCI/JER being examples.
Passengers fly on their flights because in the UK no-one has heard of Aurigny. If they had heard of it, they wouldn't be able to pronounce it! FlyBe is relatively well known, whilst Aurigny isn't. Therefore FlyBe can attract more UK emanating passengers, and, of course, these pax have to fly back again.
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Riverboat...
I think your post describes Flybe better then any other post/advertisement/article/whatever. An airline which describes itself as low cost, but is actually quite expensive, bullying its way into regional services etc.
I honestly think the product of BE's success is due to its PR and not due to its services. I just wish that GR could say that its services could generate it enough profit without ridiculous PR (a la Flybe)
GR has been the lifeline of the islands, especially Guernsey, for many years. Offering routes, on which profitability may have been called into question, or may have been a pain in the arse to operate. But they did it for the good of the Islands, during and before the States of Guernsey ownership.
A merger with blueislands would be detrimental - it would leave the islands with one airline (monopoly), presumably run by someone/some company who's overall concerns are with profits, other than the ease of transport across the rocks.
I think competition should be encouraged between the two airlines. GR in particular need to realise its almost it 2009 and modernise their business into a modern day operation. If not, the States are in very real danger of ditching them, and Blueislands will become the major player across the islands.
This post kinda spans a few points of view, but I think is fairly representative of the Islands at the moment...
I think your post describes Flybe better then any other post/advertisement/article/whatever. An airline which describes itself as low cost, but is actually quite expensive, bullying its way into regional services etc.
I honestly think the product of BE's success is due to its PR and not due to its services. I just wish that GR could say that its services could generate it enough profit without ridiculous PR (a la Flybe)
GR has been the lifeline of the islands, especially Guernsey, for many years. Offering routes, on which profitability may have been called into question, or may have been a pain in the arse to operate. But they did it for the good of the Islands, during and before the States of Guernsey ownership.
A merger with blueislands would be detrimental - it would leave the islands with one airline (monopoly), presumably run by someone/some company who's overall concerns are with profits, other than the ease of transport across the rocks.
I think competition should be encouraged between the two airlines. GR in particular need to realise its almost it 2009 and modernise their business into a modern day operation. If not, the States are in very real danger of ditching them, and Blueislands will become the major player across the islands.
This post kinda spans a few points of view, but I think is fairly representative of the Islands at the moment...
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I feel I should point out the common misunderstanding, Flybe are a low cost airline just not in the traditional sense like ryanair and easyjet. What they are most certainly not is a low fares airline, they are using a clever play in words in their advertising.
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Blue Islands look as if they are taking on two ATR 42s permanantly. With the majority market share on the inter-island routes and an expanding route network surely this only leaves Aurigny in business with the sole purpose of protecting the Manchester and Gatwick routes? Is it therefore not time for the States to hand over Aurigny to Blue Islands? With the ATRs that appear to be joining Blue Islands the Aurigny fleet is the perfect fit. The majority of the Trislanders could be retired, maintaining just those required for the Alderney operations. Surely it's time that Aurigny was run for profit, because if it goes it alone against Flybe I can see only one winner.
Blue Islands will run the company as a business, and yes, that will mean cuts, but at least Guernsey can keep it's Manchester and Gatwick routes without having to maintain an unprofitable airline that lost over £1 million in just 8 months this year!
Blue Islands will run the company as a business, and yes, that will mean cuts, but at least Guernsey can keep it's Manchester and Gatwick routes without having to maintain an unprofitable airline that lost over £1 million in just 8 months this year!
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Captainyonder
"Blue Islands will run the company as a business, and yes, that will mean cuts, but at least Guernsey can keep it's Manchester and Gatwick routes without having to maintain an unprofitable airline that lost over £1 million in just 8 months this year!"
How much profit do you think Blue Islands will have "made" this year?
"Blue Islands will run the company as a business, and yes, that will mean cuts, but at least Guernsey can keep it's Manchester and Gatwick routes without having to maintain an unprofitable airline that lost over £1 million in just 8 months this year!"
How much profit do you think Blue Islands will have "made" this year?
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I am well aware that Blue Islands haven't made a profit this year, but that is mainly due to the operation of the wet leased Dornier 328. If Blue Islands is taking on it's own ATR 42's as I'm lead to believe they are then I believe they will be a profitable operation. ATR's are generally low cost aircraft to operate and without the extra cost of paying another operator to run the services for them I truly believe that Blue Islands will become a profitable company.
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Flybe Interisland
Published in the CAA OF2 this week:
The following application has been received:
GTB 28 Flybe Limited to vary the conditions of its licence to operate passenger and cargo flights between GUERNSEY and JERSEY
What are they after & how will it affect Aurigny?
The following application has been received:
GTB 28 Flybe Limited to vary the conditions of its licence to operate passenger and cargo flights between GUERNSEY and JERSEY
What are they after & how will it affect Aurigny?
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They can't start carrying passengers inter-island, competing with Blue Islands or Aurigny, without permission from both Jersey and Guernsey Governments. So who knows, certainly nothing heard on the grapevine.