Easyjet rugby scrum, not EZYs fault
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Easyjet rugby scrum, not EZYs fault
Last night I flew from PRG to NEMA on EZY 6504. I checked in nice and early and had my boarding card marked with a large 'A'
Now why is it, that with EZY pax once the desk becomes manned for boarding the aircraft all the SLF enter a great big rugby scrum before the boarding announcements have even been made?
I suppose the pax with 'B', 'C' etc are hoping to be clever and be allowed to board earlier than they should
On my outbound flight with B M I Baby I paid £2.50p and had a reserved seat, selected by myself on the web site, why do EZY not do this and put an end to the scrummages you must see every day?
FWIW I have no connections with either airline
Now why is it, that with EZY pax once the desk becomes manned for boarding the aircraft all the SLF enter a great big rugby scrum before the boarding announcements have even been made?
I suppose the pax with 'B', 'C' etc are hoping to be clever and be allowed to board earlier than they should
On my outbound flight with B M I Baby I paid £2.50p and had a reserved seat, selected by myself on the web site, why do EZY not do this and put an end to the scrummages you must see every day?
FWIW I have no connections with either airline
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Re: Easyjet rugby scrum, not EZYs fault
As you have experienced because you can’t reserve a seat on easyjet passengers are keen to get on board and get a good seat. With BMI Baby passengers take their time and once onboard hunt around trying to find their seat. No prizes then for guessing which airline is ready to depart first.
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Re: Easyjet rugby scrum, not EZYs fault
KP
I don't think bmib pax need to 'hunt for a seat' at EMA they have forward and aft boarding, so at least SLF is guided in the right direction.
If EZY find their system is the quickest for getting the aircraft airborne fair enough.
Never flew Ryanair so not sure what their MO is.
I don't think bmib pax need to 'hunt for a seat' at EMA they have forward and aft boarding, so at least SLF is guided in the right direction.
If EZY find their system is the quickest for getting the aircraft airborne fair enough.
Never flew Ryanair so not sure what their MO is.
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Re: Easyjet rugby scrum, not EZYs fault
I regularly use both EZY and FR and both have 'scrums' to get on board. How bad the scrum is depends on the ability of the groundstaff to sort out the idiots who despite having 'c' or '66- 189' boarding cards always try to get to the front. Flying with FR to STN from PIK recently, the PIK groundstaff were vigilant and sending anyone back who did not have the right boarding card. However on the return the STN groundstaff let anything go.
I also flew WW just before Christmas from GLA to EMA (doing it again tomorrow night) and found that despite having a reserved seat the number of passengers who got on the wrong end or sat in the wrong seat was amazing and as such we left fifteen minutes late. The guy next to me sat in 5B was actually meant to be in 22E. He had mistook the Gate for his seat number!
I also flew WW just before Christmas from GLA to EMA (doing it again tomorrow night) and found that despite having a reserved seat the number of passengers who got on the wrong end or sat in the wrong seat was amazing and as such we left fifteen minutes late. The guy next to me sat in 5B was actually meant to be in 22E. He had mistook the Gate for his seat number!
Re: Easyjet rugby scrum, not EZYs fault
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Re: Easyjet rugby scrum, not EZYs fault
personally i prefer the way baby operate! - Of course i would!!
its interesting because at ema you can always tell when we board a flight the difference between the u2 and fr pax from the baby passengers! the baby pax will sit and wait in the gate area whilst the u2 and fr will stand at the gate! we do a pre board announcement for the small children, disabled pax etc and all these other pax stand in the way! We offer service, so we want too baord the disabled and young children first,which we do, and they really appreciate this, so we have to tell these pax to take a seat - and in their defence they do and many of a time i have cracked a joke about "ooh youve been travelling with easyjet too much!" which they like!
offering a seat does not delay the flight,remember technically we can offload you if your not at the gate -15 to departure, this does not happen alot, and yes it can cause problems if they have bags but this really only comes into practise on the business routes rather than the meds (the meds will always get to the gate area)
the u2 staff are quite good at the gate from what ive seen but compared to the way FR operate, well dont even get me started....... ive seen children and disabled pax all stuck behind evedryone queing at the gate - and believe it or not these other pax will not even let them through! - guess thats down to selfishness more than anything else! but the staff should order these pax out the way and let the specials through, like i have seen u2 do, but def not fr!
regards
babyfc
its interesting because at ema you can always tell when we board a flight the difference between the u2 and fr pax from the baby passengers! the baby pax will sit and wait in the gate area whilst the u2 and fr will stand at the gate! we do a pre board announcement for the small children, disabled pax etc and all these other pax stand in the way! We offer service, so we want too baord the disabled and young children first,which we do, and they really appreciate this, so we have to tell these pax to take a seat - and in their defence they do and many of a time i have cracked a joke about "ooh youve been travelling with easyjet too much!" which they like!
offering a seat does not delay the flight,remember technically we can offload you if your not at the gate -15 to departure, this does not happen alot, and yes it can cause problems if they have bags but this really only comes into practise on the business routes rather than the meds (the meds will always get to the gate area)
the u2 staff are quite good at the gate from what ive seen but compared to the way FR operate, well dont even get me started....... ive seen children and disabled pax all stuck behind evedryone queing at the gate - and believe it or not these other pax will not even let them through! - guess thats down to selfishness more than anything else! but the staff should order these pax out the way and let the specials through, like i have seen u2 do, but def not fr!
regards
babyfc
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Re: Easyjet rugby scrum, not EZYs fault
Boarding for Easyjet has always been a scrum! Huge queues at the departure gate even before the boarding staff have arrived. And in any case, the boarding group system doesn't work once coaches have to be used! Boarding group A is first on the coach and last off it!
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Re: Easyjet rugby scrum, not EZYs fault
Can I suggest you write to EZY customer services and point this out. If enough people do it then someday somebody will have to listen. EZY has been eclipsed in all departments now by its competitors who seem to be adapting to the requirements of their passengers instead running around an orange hut talking nonsense.
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Re: Easyjet rugby scrum, not EZYs fault
Originally Posted by redfield
Boarding for Easyjet has always been a scrum! Huge queues at the departure gate even before the boarding staff have arrived. And in any case, the boarding group system doesn't work once coaches have to be used! Boarding group A is first on the coach and last off it!
Of course the payback for treating passengers as idiots and animals is that they will behave like them (see comments about passengers with D coming forward when A is called). Their response will be: "You only paid £20 for this flight. If you want preferential boarding or even something approaching flexibility or customer care, then go to BA/BMI or whoever and pay their prices". They know that, however much you have been p1ssed off by your experience of flying with them, the next time you need to get somewhere and their fare is £20 and the competitor's is £100+, you'll be back!
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Re: Easyjet rugby scrum, not EZYs fault
I assume easyJet have taken into account the cost savings of not allocating seats at check-out versus the potential loss of pax that this policy might bring about, and presumably they have calculated that their system works for them.
I have used easyJet around thirty times over the past three years, always for leisure and always from/to BRS, my local airport. Most of the time the boarding order has been regulated efficiently by the staff and on several occasions I have seen would-be queue jumpers put firmly but politely in their place.
Redfield is right though about boarding aircraft by coach to remote stands, a not infrequent occurrence at BRS where the number of based easyJet aircraft makes it inevitable that some will not be parked where they can be boarded direct from the terminal. As he says, in such circumstances the boarding order goes out of the window.
Staff supervising full service carriers do not always bother to ensure that pax do not queue-jump when they are called for boarding in batches of seat numbers.
When easyJet absorbed Go, an airline that I found to be exceptionally good in the low-cost, no frills sector, I was apprehensive. Go did have a policy of allocating seats at check-in. However, easyJet have proved to be an admirable replacement and I find the annoyance of sometimes having to take part in a sort of boarding rugby scrum small beer compared to the convenience of having such a selection of destinations from my local airport, usually at a very competitive price.
I have used easyJet around thirty times over the past three years, always for leisure and always from/to BRS, my local airport. Most of the time the boarding order has been regulated efficiently by the staff and on several occasions I have seen would-be queue jumpers put firmly but politely in their place.
Redfield is right though about boarding aircraft by coach to remote stands, a not infrequent occurrence at BRS where the number of based easyJet aircraft makes it inevitable that some will not be parked where they can be boarded direct from the terminal. As he says, in such circumstances the boarding order goes out of the window.
Staff supervising full service carriers do not always bother to ensure that pax do not queue-jump when they are called for boarding in batches of seat numbers.
When easyJet absorbed Go, an airline that I found to be exceptionally good in the low-cost, no frills sector, I was apprehensive. Go did have a policy of allocating seats at check-in. However, easyJet have proved to be an admirable replacement and I find the annoyance of sometimes having to take part in a sort of boarding rugby scrum small beer compared to the convenience of having such a selection of destinations from my local airport, usually at a very competitive price.
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Re: Easyjet rugby scrum, not EZYs fault
When easyJet took over Go, they inherited Go's prior seat allocation process. easyJet did a number of tests which indicated, and I state from memory, that it saved 20 seconds by not having seat allocation, it might have been 30 seconds. I for one hate the massed brawl. If it happened at a football ground, folk would be banned, but you have to endure it at an airport!
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Re: Easyjet rugby scrum, not EZYs fault
Originally Posted by cartmanfly
EZY has been eclipsed in all departments now by its competitors who seem to be adapting to the requirements of their passengers instead running around an orange hut talking nonsense.
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Re: Easyjet rugby scrum, not EZYs fault
Well the rest of them seem to be making money quite nicely. EZY maximises its profits at the expense of staff working conditions and morale and not by introducing new innovations. Eventually it will come back to haunt them.
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Re: Easyjet rugby scrum, not EZYs fault
Having worked for Servisair-GlobeGround at a base which handles both easyJet & Ryanair flights, I can say that the boarding procedure genuinely works to encourage pax to get to the gate ontime, if not early, to ensure that the flight gets away ontime. This procedure is far more effective than the allocated seating boarding process, that charter airlines such as Thomsonfly use from an operational point of view.
The area where it isn't effective is from a customer comfort point of view. Passengers find the open seating rule unpleasant because you have to shuffle in long queues to get onboard, and those without priority numbers become frustrated they can't sit with loved ones, and those with priority numbers get mad in case they aren't the first to board. The issue in this case is purely down to the handling agent. Whilst my base does not have them, I think that easyJet's cattle grids at LTN are effective to segregate boarding groups to ensure people are correctly boarded. Also the PSA has to turn away those with incorrect boarding cards, and where possible, ensure announcements & procedures are explained clearly in English as well as the language of the destination. I've noticed Spanish & Italian pax are often the worst at understanding the open seating arragement, so when I have time, try to ensure that the rules are explained to them in their language also. Handling agents are under lots of pressure to ensure ontime turnarounds are met, so if an aircraft arrives late, often a general boarding call will be made to get people onto the aircraft asap. This comes with a positive for both us & the pax - they get away quickly, but also negative, because people become angry they didn't get their priority seating & often feel let down by the airline for this with "well you never get this at BA or Monarch Scheduled!" often being uttered!
I do not at all agree with the statements regularly made in the press or on PPRuNe that "you pay peanuts, you get monkeys." Both of these airlines provide an excellent standard of customer service, yes the rules for various things may be more stringent than at major airlines such as BA, but overall you get excellent value for money. I find easyJet & Ryanair flights easy to handle, but think that the procedures aren't flawed (WN have done it for over 30 years successfully!) but the flaws come from the staff on the gate not ensuring that procedures are being followed.
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Re: Easyjet rugby scrum, not EZYs fault
Buster,
The studies of allocated vs. non-allocated seating after the Go takeover showed significantly more than a 20-30 second benefit.
Boarding was more consistent (in terms of time) with free-seating, whereas with allocated seating you regularly saw the hold-ups while one passenger in row 2 spent forever stowing baggage and holding up proceedings.
Aside from the immediate time-saving itself (however minor) the big difference with allocated seating (and demonstrated very clearly by the studies) was the relatively low number of missing pax at the gate. With an allocated seat pax are much more likely to "have one more at the bar" or wander aimlessly down to the gate in their own time, whereas with free-seating you get all the pax to the gate much more reliably and see a significantly reduced number of last minute baggage offloads and resultant delays. FACT!
Personally I'm not a fan of free-seating from the consumer perspective, especially when travelling with family. It can be well-managed, but that depends on staff willingness and gate layout. I do, however, firmly believe that free-seating is the right solution for RYR/EZY in terms of punctuality / turnround time.
In trim
The studies of allocated vs. non-allocated seating after the Go takeover showed significantly more than a 20-30 second benefit.
Boarding was more consistent (in terms of time) with free-seating, whereas with allocated seating you regularly saw the hold-ups while one passenger in row 2 spent forever stowing baggage and holding up proceedings.
Aside from the immediate time-saving itself (however minor) the big difference with allocated seating (and demonstrated very clearly by the studies) was the relatively low number of missing pax at the gate. With an allocated seat pax are much more likely to "have one more at the bar" or wander aimlessly down to the gate in their own time, whereas with free-seating you get all the pax to the gate much more reliably and see a significantly reduced number of last minute baggage offloads and resultant delays. FACT!
Personally I'm not a fan of free-seating from the consumer perspective, especially when travelling with family. It can be well-managed, but that depends on staff willingness and gate layout. I do, however, firmly believe that free-seating is the right solution for RYR/EZY in terms of punctuality / turnround time.
In trim
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Re: Easyjet rugby scrum, not EZYs fault
I don't think that the difference between allocated & non-allocated seating is huge from an operational point of view, but I'd tend to agree that there is more benefit to a low-cost airline to having the latter model for their boarding process. Besides ensuring pax arrive at the gate ontime, meaning you don't have to chase people up, meaning there is less chance of having to fish out people's bags because they're having one last drink & also meaning you can encourage people to move further down the aircraft if you are boarding via an airbridge, because people don't need to sit in specific places therefore they are not blocking the aisles near the front whilst they stown their carry-ons.
However, it is not all about operational procedures. I stand by the notion that whilst the low fare will bring you onboard the aircraft, it is the service you recieve that will bring you back. Feeling safe in the knowledge you have an assigned seat relieves those travelling with children, or those who have other things on their mind such as business people, of a lot of unneeded stress. There is no angry outbursts from pax or a "rugby scrum" environment in cramped gate areas. Also economically, the airline can also make additional revenue by charging for an assigned seat when booking online.
Whilst I agree that open seating may save 5 minutes on a turnaround, printing a seat number on a boarding card provides a happier group of pax. At EMA bmibaby & easyJet used to fly to ALC at the same time (0955.) which I would occasionally observe when I flew out to Spain. Invariably, the baby staff had a much more relaxed & less-rushed demeanour with the pax, who lingered in the gate area, but did not have to stand or "hover" around the podium whilst the CSAs did their job & assisted those needing help. This is far removed from the Servisair staff at the next gate who seemed to be rushed off their feet making constant boarding calls for the next batch of pax to board with frustrated faces from people standing in line for up to 15 mins anxious to get onboard. Invariably, the easyJet aircraft left the stand 3 or 4 minutes before the baby aircraft did, but I noticed far more smiles from the baby pax than the easy ones. ALC has now been retimed by easyJet, but it was interesting how many pax commented once onboard about how much better the bmibaby system was. It's an excellent marketing ploy to have that you have assigned seating, and lots of people prefer it. I'd be interested to know from CSAs which they prefer. Lite & bmibabyfc seem to have very differing views!
However, it is not all about operational procedures. I stand by the notion that whilst the low fare will bring you onboard the aircraft, it is the service you recieve that will bring you back. Feeling safe in the knowledge you have an assigned seat relieves those travelling with children, or those who have other things on their mind such as business people, of a lot of unneeded stress. There is no angry outbursts from pax or a "rugby scrum" environment in cramped gate areas. Also economically, the airline can also make additional revenue by charging for an assigned seat when booking online.
Whilst I agree that open seating may save 5 minutes on a turnaround, printing a seat number on a boarding card provides a happier group of pax. At EMA bmibaby & easyJet used to fly to ALC at the same time (0955.) which I would occasionally observe when I flew out to Spain. Invariably, the baby staff had a much more relaxed & less-rushed demeanour with the pax, who lingered in the gate area, but did not have to stand or "hover" around the podium whilst the CSAs did their job & assisted those needing help. This is far removed from the Servisair staff at the next gate who seemed to be rushed off their feet making constant boarding calls for the next batch of pax to board with frustrated faces from people standing in line for up to 15 mins anxious to get onboard. Invariably, the easyJet aircraft left the stand 3 or 4 minutes before the baby aircraft did, but I noticed far more smiles from the baby pax than the easy ones. ALC has now been retimed by easyJet, but it was interesting how many pax commented once onboard about how much better the bmibaby system was. It's an excellent marketing ploy to have that you have assigned seating, and lots of people prefer it. I'd be interested to know from CSAs which they prefer. Lite & bmibabyfc seem to have very differing views!
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Re: Easyjet rugby scrum, not EZYs fault
Just to add to the debate I was flying with easyJet from Liverpool. The aircraft was boarded within 10 minutes with no seat allocation. An Air Europa Boeing 737 with seat allocation took 35 minutes to board. I heard passengers in the tax-free shop saying "we don't have to rush we have our seats....."
This article appeared in the Daily Mail and Daily Telegraph just before Christmas.
Travellers' scrum fills plane quickly
By David Millward and Roger Highfield
(Filed: 22/12/2005)
The free-for-all boarding of planes favoured by no-frills carriers is the most efficient way to fill an aircraft, according to a mathematical analysis published yesterday.
Researchers have proved the fastest way to get passengers to their seats is to let them fend for themselves rather than organise conventional back-to-front boarding.
The findings will not be welcomed by the established airlines who allocate seats ahead of boarding. They have invested heavily in computerised systems which allow passengers to claim their spot days before their flight.
But Dr Eitan Bachmat, from Ben-Gurion University of the Negev, Israel, said that even when seats were assigned "the best thing for the airlines to do in terms of telling passengers to board would be to do nothing".
Because boarders are frequently held up while those ahead of them block the aisles, the row-by-row system makes the process longer, not shorter.
"Back-to-front boarding is bad because it is designed for cardboard-thin passengers, or for the spacious surroundings of the first-class compartment," Dr Bachmat said.
"The only thing that might help would be getting people who have seats closest to the window to board first."
The findings are the result of mathematical equations that have a link with Einstein's theory of relativity.
An EasyJet spokesman said: "Boarding from the front and back at the same time means passengers can just find a seat and sit down.
"We always thought this was the best way."
This article appeared in the Daily Mail and Daily Telegraph just before Christmas.
Travellers' scrum fills plane quickly
By David Millward and Roger Highfield
(Filed: 22/12/2005)
The free-for-all boarding of planes favoured by no-frills carriers is the most efficient way to fill an aircraft, according to a mathematical analysis published yesterday.
Researchers have proved the fastest way to get passengers to their seats is to let them fend for themselves rather than organise conventional back-to-front boarding.
The findings will not be welcomed by the established airlines who allocate seats ahead of boarding. They have invested heavily in computerised systems which allow passengers to claim their spot days before their flight.
But Dr Eitan Bachmat, from Ben-Gurion University of the Negev, Israel, said that even when seats were assigned "the best thing for the airlines to do in terms of telling passengers to board would be to do nothing".
Because boarders are frequently held up while those ahead of them block the aisles, the row-by-row system makes the process longer, not shorter.
"Back-to-front boarding is bad because it is designed for cardboard-thin passengers, or for the spacious surroundings of the first-class compartment," Dr Bachmat said.
"The only thing that might help would be getting people who have seats closest to the window to board first."
The findings are the result of mathematical equations that have a link with Einstein's theory of relativity.
An EasyJet spokesman said: "Boarding from the front and back at the same time means passengers can just find a seat and sit down.
"We always thought this was the best way."
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Re: Easyjet rugby scrum, not EZYs fault
Thank you all for contributing to this topic. Just a couple of points, even EZY have SLF who block the aisle at the front of the aircraft whilst they stow their bags.
Also the EZY queue jumpers should be made to wear an Orange Dunces hat for the flight, although the Stag parties would love that.
Also the EZY queue jumpers should be made to wear an Orange Dunces hat for the flight, although the Stag parties would love that.