COVENTRY
Join Date: Aug 2007
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To supporters of Coventry, the Holy Grail is the return of passenger flights.
Sir Peter is a hard headed business business man who must be well aware that these days BHX can't afford to lose passengers to the airport just down the A45.
If by any chance an airline did sign up for CVT, Birmingham would almost certainly respond by changing its policy of profits before growth and start to reduce its charges.
As these are said to be typically twice the levels currently in place at Manchester, there is huge scope for adjustments.
An airline would have to be brave indeed to move into Coventry with the prospect of competitors at BHX suddenly being handed big cost reductions.
Sir Peter is a hard headed business business man who must be well aware that these days BHX can't afford to lose passengers to the airport just down the A45.
If by any chance an airline did sign up for CVT, Birmingham would almost certainly respond by changing its policy of profits before growth and start to reduce its charges.
As these are said to be typically twice the levels currently in place at Manchester, there is huge scope for adjustments.
An airline would have to be brave indeed to move into Coventry with the prospect of competitors at BHX suddenly being handed big cost reductions.
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Warwickshire
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'There is a long history of pax flights landing at the wrong airfields by mistake'........ as you would know Phileas, from your plane spotting.
The thing is as you sit in your ivory tower is that you know nothing of what is going on behind the scenes, but it doesnt stop you believing that you do. You know best after all, and by the look of it on so many different subjects looking at your postings. Oh to be as informed
The thing is as you sit in your ivory tower is that you know nothing of what is going on behind the scenes, but it doesnt stop you believing that you do. You know best after all, and by the look of it on so many different subjects looking at your postings. Oh to be as informed
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Coventry
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Reality check
Not been on for long to talk about CVT which I hold dear to my heart:
FACT - regional airport businesses in crisis.
FACT - it's only bucket & spade and non-EU flying that makes any money and neither will happen at CVT.
FACT - the proximity of BHX always was and will always be the main factor.
TOM at CVT was a flook and no airline will ever try a launch of that magnitude again from a marginal airfield just cos it's cheaper.
Holiday passengers fly from the major airports - if you are a competitor in the market you have to be there.
FACT - regional airport businesses in crisis.
FACT - it's only bucket & spade and non-EU flying that makes any money and neither will happen at CVT.
FACT - the proximity of BHX always was and will always be the main factor.
TOM at CVT was a flook and no airline will ever try a launch of that magnitude again from a marginal airfield just cos it's cheaper.
Holiday passengers fly from the major airports - if you are a competitor in the market you have to be there.
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Call me old and experienced but I can still recall a failed CVT to/from CDG etc. 'Budgie' operation.
Many of these 'boy wonders' won't even appreciate what aircraft type a 'Budgie' is.
Right ... back to polishing ivory tower(s) along with Skypartners and learjet50
Many of these 'boy wonders' won't even appreciate what aircraft type a 'Budgie' is.
Right ... back to polishing ivory tower(s) along with Skypartners and learjet50
Join Date: Feb 2005
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I do not believe that there is room for 2 airports (CVT and BHX) so close to each other but a look through the posts reveals.
Closed going to be a housing estate.
Bought going to be nothing more than a G.A airfield.
Going to be a massive industrial estate
Soon to be fact. Back to a commercial airfield with regular cargo flights
Opening hours extened, staff in place.
Speculation. Soon to have pax flights re introduced.
Fact. Money being spent.
Now I am not saying that it will all work or make money but not a bad recovery considering all the doom and gloom posted here.
Closed going to be a housing estate.
Bought going to be nothing more than a G.A airfield.
Going to be a massive industrial estate
Soon to be fact. Back to a commercial airfield with regular cargo flights
Opening hours extened, staff in place.
Speculation. Soon to have pax flights re introduced.
Fact. Money being spent.
Now I am not saying that it will all work or make money but not a bad recovery considering all the doom and gloom posted here.
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Call me old and experienced but I can still recall a failed CVT to/from CDG etc. 'Budgie' operation.
Last edited by EGBE0523; 5th Aug 2011 at 08:12. Reason: typo
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Phileas,
I apologise, maybe my 'ivory tower' jibe was a little harsh. Your 'experience' is noted, but please dont try to tar me as some boy wonder, you neither know who i am nor what I do, and I know exactly the history you are reffering to, so please cut the old boy knows best routine, its so very dull.
Your constant negativity is waring a little thin, as is your Phileas knows all. Personally you seem to be barking up the wrong tree about the aims and buisness direction of Coventry Airport, I really cant imagine how you know more than Sir Peter Rigby, but dont let that stop you 'educating' us
I will wait and see what the future holds for CVT, and as its my local airfield i hope it succeeds. I like to keep an open mind unlike the more blinkered views of others. Perhaps you like to see avitaion sites fail, is housing more your thing?
I just hope the airport does better than you seem to be doing at selling your house, and moving to your island dream.
I apologise, maybe my 'ivory tower' jibe was a little harsh. Your 'experience' is noted, but please dont try to tar me as some boy wonder, you neither know who i am nor what I do, and I know exactly the history you are reffering to, so please cut the old boy knows best routine, its so very dull.
Your constant negativity is waring a little thin, as is your Phileas knows all. Personally you seem to be barking up the wrong tree about the aims and buisness direction of Coventry Airport, I really cant imagine how you know more than Sir Peter Rigby, but dont let that stop you 'educating' us
I will wait and see what the future holds for CVT, and as its my local airfield i hope it succeeds. I like to keep an open mind unlike the more blinkered views of others. Perhaps you like to see avitaion sites fail, is housing more your thing?
I just hope the airport does better than you seem to be doing at selling your house, and moving to your island dream.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Morton-in-Marsh
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I'll back Skypartner's knowledge of the place - it won't be a successful passenger airport until BHX gets very busy and slots are no longer available between 0700-1000 and 1600-1900, and we are a long way off that. We are in a recession as far as airlines and airports are concerned, and it looks like it will get worse.
CVT is a good airport that just won't be able to attract business because 1) the terminal (thanks to Warwickshire planners) is not big or impressive enough (it is very unimpressive), and 2) the runway is about 200m too short to allow regularity with B737-800s when it is wet.
But really the reason it is not a successful airport is because the planners have stymied any intelligent proposals for its improvement, because they don't want it there.
When the economic climate improves, it would make a decent GA/Business airport, and there is still West Atlantic there to use it for cargo operations. So all is not yet lost.
Riverboat
CVT is a good airport that just won't be able to attract business because 1) the terminal (thanks to Warwickshire planners) is not big or impressive enough (it is very unimpressive), and 2) the runway is about 200m too short to allow regularity with B737-800s when it is wet.
But really the reason it is not a successful airport is because the planners have stymied any intelligent proposals for its improvement, because they don't want it there.
When the economic climate improves, it would make a decent GA/Business airport, and there is still West Atlantic there to use it for cargo operations. So all is not yet lost.
Riverboat
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Riverboat,
I don't see that B737-800's are the bee all and end all, particularly if they are Irish registered ... SEN had the right idea to extend the runway just long enough to keep the riff raff out
BHX has mainline rail connections, I'm not a Brummy by any means but BHX is just so damn convenient to get to/from and use ... why would I, and others, want to change?
I don't see that B737-800's are the bee all and end all, particularly if they are Irish registered ... SEN had the right idea to extend the runway just long enough to keep the riff raff out
BHX has mainline rail connections, I'm not a Brummy by any means but BHX is just so damn convenient to get to/from and use ... why would I, and others, want to change?
Phileas:
I would gladly use COV instead of BHX if:
- it was uncrowded
- parking was more convenient and cheaper than BHX
- it offered sensibly-timed flights to places I want to go to
- flight prices were similar to BHX
I would gladly use COV instead of BHX if:
- it was uncrowded
- parking was more convenient and cheaper than BHX
- it offered sensibly-timed flights to places I want to go to
- flight prices were similar to BHX
Join Date: Jun 2001
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No argument with that Phileas, except that the last time BHX ran out of slots at peak periods Coventry came to life! So I agree that BHX is the place to fly from until they run out of slots. The new routes will have problems, as they will not work if they have no flights out and in at peak periods. What would be the alternative? Well, it could easily be CVT.
But the way things are at the moment, I will probably have left this mortal coil long gone before that happens.
And don't forget GA and business aviation. When BHX gets busy, it doesn't want them! Once again CVT can benefit from that. So all would not be lost if we weren't in such a dire economic situation. As it is, CVT must be losing a lot of money.
Riverboat
But the way things are at the moment, I will probably have left this mortal coil long gone before that happens.
And don't forget GA and business aviation. When BHX gets busy, it doesn't want them! Once again CVT can benefit from that. So all would not be lost if we weren't in such a dire economic situation. As it is, CVT must be losing a lot of money.
Riverboat
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If CVT ever starts picking up excess traffic from BHX, it'll really annoy the locals unless a taxiway (or at least turning area/holding point) is built at the 23 threshold. I've orbited for 20mins waiting for an aircraft to get a release, and held for 40 mins in traffic queuing for departure following a inbound/outbound airline traffic.
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I'll also vouch for Skypartner's knowledge - very much down to earth, he's not an ivory towers guy!
As I've said before, I think another loco at CVT is unlikely, but I won't give up hope.
As for those 738's with harps on the tailfin - they have repeatedly gone on about airport handling fees being one of their biggest drivers. Look at the spat with MAN - the deal was on, then it was off, then the money was good, so in they came. We've seen BHX offer time-limited base deals before, maybe they've learnt this time, maybe they haven't. Short runways have not stopped airlines using CVT before - even with a few less pax under certain conditions, the economics could still work - as could flights to nearer destinations. I'd still appreciate a technical breakdown on this - where would be in / out on a hot summer's day?
I don't think baby will be around forever, and BE are very much a city-city airline (perhaps they could launch JER) - so that leaves Jet2 - also previously discussed as unlikely, but not beyond the realms of possibility.
Slight correction - the airport comes under the remit of Warwick District Council.
Which makes CVT the perfect Ryanairport - apart from the runway issue!
Easy to blame them, but I think there's more to it than that. TOM had a reputation for poor customer service at CVT, which became a self-fulfilling prophecy.
My understanding is that a new terminal handling upto 1m pax pa could be built, but my concern would now be about the temporary permission for the current portakabins expiring.
A tired argument for any of us who want to see CVT work! BHX mgt also seem to think ppl from London will travel out on HS2 to use their regional facilities! Much as though I'm an avid train-geek, the sad fact is that most people don't use them to get to airports - less than 20% @ BHX. BHX's rail link isn't direct to terminal, and it isn't 24 hrs - so as someone living halfway between BHX & CVT, I have often used a taxi to get to/from BHX.
Where CVT really failed was in bringing in pax from Germany, who do expect some sort of public transport - and not having any kind of link to the city centre whatsoever.
So if we do see pax flights @CVT again, then I hope that mistake isn't repeated - but I'm afraid the former is still a very big if.
As I've said before, I think another loco at CVT is unlikely, but I won't give up hope.
As for those 738's with harps on the tailfin - they have repeatedly gone on about airport handling fees being one of their biggest drivers. Look at the spat with MAN - the deal was on, then it was off, then the money was good, so in they came. We've seen BHX offer time-limited base deals before, maybe they've learnt this time, maybe they haven't. Short runways have not stopped airlines using CVT before - even with a few less pax under certain conditions, the economics could still work - as could flights to nearer destinations. I'd still appreciate a technical breakdown on this - where would be in / out on a hot summer's day?
I don't think baby will be around forever, and BE are very much a city-city airline (perhaps they could launch JER) - so that leaves Jet2 - also previously discussed as unlikely, but not beyond the realms of possibility.
CVT is a good airport that just won't be able to attract business because 1) the terminal (thanks to Warwickshire planners
is not big or impressive enough (it is very unimpressive)
But really the reason it is not a successful airport is because the planners have stymied any intelligent proposals for its improvement, because they don't want it there.
My understanding is that a new terminal handling upto 1m pax pa could be built, but my concern would now be about the temporary permission for the current portakabins expiring.
BHX has mainline rail connections, I'm not a Brummy by any means but BHX is just so damn convenient to get to/from and use ... why would I, and others, want to change?
Where CVT really failed was in bringing in pax from Germany, who do expect some sort of public transport - and not having any kind of link to the city centre whatsoever.
So if we do see pax flights @CVT again, then I hope that mistake isn't repeated - but I'm afraid the former is still a very big if.
Join Date: Jul 2004
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jabird,
You say a few less B737-800 pax under certain conditions, I don't know the figures but let's say 10% less pax.
Well nobody can predict what the weather will be doing next week, next month etc. If the operator lists 100% of the seats available for sale all of the time then there will be occasions when they will need to refuse, to deny boarding, to a percentage of passengers, those passengers will voice, and word will spread, "We're not being treated like that again, we're going via BHX in future, CVT is a totally unreliable service" and the service will ultimately fail.
But ... to eliminate this, if an operator only lists 90% of the seats available for sale, and with no opportunity to sell excess baggage etc, then this wipes out any savings made on airport/handling etc. charges.
With regards to BHX rail it is irrelevant that the rail station isn't directly in the terminal and is circa a 90 seconds monorail ride away ... besides the most irritating BMIBaby jingles that the monorail subjects one to, I'm not here to promote nor blow smoke up the backside of BHX, and so what if the rail service isn't H24 to/from BHX, are you suggesting that a bus service to/from CVT airport does, or will, operate 24 hours each day?
Put it this way ... By public transport, from Coventry city centre, which is the quickest airport to get to, CVT or BHX, i.e. is CVT airport quicker to get to than the 10 minutes (ish) it takes by train to get to BHX?
You say a few less B737-800 pax under certain conditions, I don't know the figures but let's say 10% less pax.
Well nobody can predict what the weather will be doing next week, next month etc. If the operator lists 100% of the seats available for sale all of the time then there will be occasions when they will need to refuse, to deny boarding, to a percentage of passengers, those passengers will voice, and word will spread, "We're not being treated like that again, we're going via BHX in future, CVT is a totally unreliable service" and the service will ultimately fail.
But ... to eliminate this, if an operator only lists 90% of the seats available for sale, and with no opportunity to sell excess baggage etc, then this wipes out any savings made on airport/handling etc. charges.
With regards to BHX rail it is irrelevant that the rail station isn't directly in the terminal and is circa a 90 seconds monorail ride away ... besides the most irritating BMIBaby jingles that the monorail subjects one to, I'm not here to promote nor blow smoke up the backside of BHX, and so what if the rail service isn't H24 to/from BHX, are you suggesting that a bus service to/from CVT airport does, or will, operate 24 hours each day?
Put it this way ... By public transport, from Coventry city centre, which is the quickest airport to get to, CVT or BHX, i.e. is CVT airport quicker to get to than the 10 minutes (ish) it takes by train to get to BHX?
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Coventry
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Ivory tower?
Ivory Tower. LOL! That will be my porn name when I finally lose interest in the aviation game.
The great thing about Coventry is that there is no need to speculate about the likelihood of sustainable passenger services. As many of my former colleagues will tell you- been there, done that and got the P45!
GA, freight, bizjets - of course and here's hoping. Pax flights? Only the flakiest of airlines would even consider it and, as history demonstrates, they are never around long enough for the airport operator to make a living from them.
I predict that, by 2020 most if not all of the current regional airports will have gone. They have all been losing passengers since 2008 and philanthropic owners are hard to come by.
The great thing about Coventry is that there is no need to speculate about the likelihood of sustainable passenger services. As many of my former colleagues will tell you- been there, done that and got the P45!
GA, freight, bizjets - of course and here's hoping. Pax flights? Only the flakiest of airlines would even consider it and, as history demonstrates, they are never around long enough for the airport operator to make a living from them.
I predict that, by 2020 most if not all of the current regional airports will have gone. They have all been losing passengers since 2008 and philanthropic owners are hard to come by.