HEATHROW

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by Bagso

Whilst I'm no fan of Heathrow but trying to remain impartial I would have thought limiting arrivals from Asia to a later time would be commercially quite toxic?

JH-K explains that the reason for those early-morning landings is so that Chinese businessmen can arrive from Shanghai(?) and Hong Kong in time to catch the 07:10 flight to Newcastle and do a full day's work there:

Heathrow Airport Vows To Ban Night Flights

[Trinity 09L]

DR UK
I am aware that it does not effect departures for 09L, but alas if & when easterly departures start, thats then it will awaken those in the North East quarter to noise not heard before. Atlantic departures may (?) require a left turn to head West.
As to a decision, I would only suggest that it would be easy to bury this with the R3 decision. However what work is required to allow ops, ie noise baffles and taxiways etc would have to destroyed again to allow aircraft to reach R3.

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by Trinity 09L

I am aware that it does not effect departures for 09L, but alas if & when easterly departures start, thats then it will awaken those in the North East quarter to noise not heard before.

Well noise that's not been heard very often - 09L departures are rare, but not unknown (just under 400 of them last year). But I agree that's rather different from the 35,000 or so 09L departures per year that would likely result from full easterly alternation.

Atlantic departures may (?) require a left turn to head West.

The SIDs for 09L departures already exist - Transatlantics make either a right or left turn depending on whether they are on a Compton or WOBUN SID, respectively (which in turn is determined by their destination and the day's NAT tracks).

Edit: here is an example of each:

Departure to JFK on an 09L Compton SID: WebTrak My Neighbourhood - Home Locator: London Heathrow Airport
Departure to IAH on an 09L WOBUN SID: WebTrak My Neighbourhood - Home Locator: London Heathrow Airport

As to a decision, I would only suggest that it would be easy to bury this with the R3 decision. However what work is required to allow ops, ie noise baffles and taxiways etc would have to destroyed again to allow aircraft to reach R3.

Quite so. The noise mitigation measures are designed to reduce sound levels at the western end of 09L, primarily to benefit the residents of Longford (which is due to disappear under the T6 satellites).

[Skipness One Echo]

09L departures are now common in the overnight period, they rotate with the other three options.

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by Skipness One Echo

09L departures are now common in the overnight period, they rotate with the other three options.

The 4-weekly night-time rotation has operated for many years, but it only applies after the last scheduled departure when single-runway operations begin, so "common" is a bit of an exaggeration - just over one 09L departure per day on average last year, as per my previous post, and fewer than 20 to date for this year.

[118.70]

DR UK

Does anyone know the current status of the battle between HAL and LB Hillingdon re planning permission for the changes to allow easterly alternation?

I would have thought the Planning Inspectors had submitted their Enquiry report /recommendations to the Secretaries of State and we are awaiting their deliberations.......

[compton3bravo]

If ever John Holland-Kaye ever left his job at Heathrow I am sure he would be a hit on the comedy circuit with some of the comments he made when talking to media outlets yesterday especially the one about bicycles!

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by 118.70

I would have thought the Planning Inspectors had submitted their Enquiry report /recommendations to the Secretaries of State and we are awaiting their deliberations.......

Yes, answering my own lazy question with a bit of Googling comes up with a Government decision being "imminent" - a fairly elastic term in the context of decisions relating to Heathrow.

[LEEDS APPROACH]

Only in the UK could one airport get given a runway with less than ideal characteristics that is not needed now and will be needed even less in future years whereas the most important airport in the world and in critical need of runway capacity, can't get one. Nowhere else on the planet.

[Trinity 09L]

DR UK
You have published an error - there is no Terminal 6, this is a planning application for a new 3rd runway and ancillary taxiways.

To assist if you look at the plans there are a string of piers fixed to a building where it is likely passengers will board and leave an aircraft. This building will be named the Sipson - Harlington - International Terminus building.

[T250]

whereas the most important airport in the world

Since when? On what basis?

[chaps1954]

Leeds App we know who you are talking about and suggest you pay us a visit
between 06.00 and 10.30, mid afternoon and evening and you might just change your mind about it not been needed and April was 12% up for movements which is 500
mvemens a day
Sorry if a bit of topic but he is trolling anything to but his local drome up north

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

the most important airport in the world and in critical need of runway capacity, can't get one.

The most important airport in the world at the present time is Hartsfield Atlanta International [101 million pax in 2015] which has five parallel runways in a great layout. Probably sufficient for its needs. If you mean Beijing Capital Airport [90 million pax in 2015] which is catching up rapidly, it has three parallel runways. It probably won't require more, as a new airport for Beijing is under construction at Da Xing. However, it is likely that the Chinese would construct an additional runway if it was deemed necessary. Costs appear to be under control there.

Meanwhile, I cannot think of any UK airport which has been given a new runway in recent times. They usually cost alot of money. That's the problem.

[compton3bravo]

Manchester perhaps!

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

Manchester perhaps!

Manchester paid the full cost of theirs. Nothing was gifted to them.

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by Trinity 09L

DR UK
You have published an error - there is no Terminal 6, this is a planning application for a new 3rd runway and ancillary taxiways.

To assist if you look at the plans there are a string of piers fixed to a building where it is likely passengers will board and leave an aircraft. This building will be named the Sipson - Harlington - International Terminus building.

Love it !!

Joking aside, there have actually been two different plans published for the R3/T6 option - the original "northwest R3" and a variation labelled "potential optimisation".

Both show T6 in its planned location west of T5, to the south of where the Sofitel is at present.

The original plan shows 3 satellites, aligned N-S (i.e. with east/west-facing aircraft stands) roughly midway between the new runway and the current 09L/27R extended centreline.

The "optimised" plan has R3 moved southeast by around 300m. This moves the airport boundary clear of the M4/M25 interchange (though that would still need a grade change to get the M25 under the runway) and replaces the 3 N-S satellites with two oriented E-W (so the stands face north/south).

The various artists impressions of the Northwest option published so far all appear to show the original (3-satellite) configuration with the runway located closer to J4A.

[Bagso]

Early day motion 1162 - FINAL DECISION ON AIRPORT EXPANSION IN LONDON AND THE SOUTH EAST - UK Parliament

Some great support from GrahamBradyMP Sale in Gtr Manchester although I am not sure London MPs would be so embroiled in Mancunian issues.

I wonder why he is so keen ?

[BAladdy]

BA are launching a new 4 x weekly service from LHR too SCL on 3rd January 2017

BA251 LHR 22:00 SCL 09:40+1 789 x146
BA250 SCL 18:45 LHR 12:05+1 789 x257

Once it begin this will be BA's longest non stop flight, with westbound flights scheduled for 14hrs 40min and eastbound 14hrs 20mins

[WHBM]

Originally Posted by Shed-on-a-Pole

Manchester paid the full cost of theirs. Nothing was gifted to them.

That's because Manchester paid £172m for it, which was a straightforward and reasonable construction cost (including acquisition of land). In contrast the stratospheric costs quoted for Heathrow are a mystery to the construction world for what they are going to do.

One explanation is that Heathrow, unlike Manchester, is an airport with charges controlled by the Regulator, and that adding to the approved asset base is one way to get an increase in authorised charges. By gaming the system you can get the new high cost estimates added to your asset base and this can lead to an increase in authorised charges.

Heathrow is part-owned by Ferrovial, who also own UK mainstream contractor Amey, and the "costs" of the project will be whatever Amey manage to publish.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

Interesting, WHBM. That sounds like sharp practice at its finest!