HEATHROW
I too find it completely unbelievable. Not only do they have a very good idea of how many are coming in, not just hours ahead but months or even years in advance, but as we all know the Heathrow slots are all saturated, all year. There isn't any substantial increase in flights in summer because there can't be.
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Ametyst1
Well there's an indictment of the highest level! I know that the UK govt do not see it as their job to help UK citizens but HAL and BA do have that job.
This story is boring it comes out every July and August!
Though I agree that shouldn't really come as any surprise to Border Force management.
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Is Collaborative Decision Making (CDM) in operation at LHR? If so the Border Force should be able to see potential problems on the day before they might happen and arrange their contingency planning in conjunction with all the other agencies such as the airlines and airport.
But it seems to me that their flexible response isn't that flexible if people have to drive up from Dover, park up, get to the work area and start. What's that? 2-3 hours to get into position at LHR? A situation can easily develop within that time period. Everything is on a knife edge and one delay can have a ripple effect that goes on for hours. And you've just had a stressful commute and then are under continuing stress when you are there.
And what happens then at Dover at peak periods with staff redeployed where I guess they are much less able to predict demand?
It seems to me that all the cuts that have taken place in recent years (in this area and others) have meant that the flexibilty to respond to unusual peak demand is almost non existent and one solution is to have more trained staff. But that costs more money, so I guess the travelling public will have to get used to longer processing times as it becomes the norm. You could always downgrade the declared capacity to maintain service standards but that will never happen; it's too complicated.
As this is at Heathrow of course, the issue has a high profile but these delays are happening at other airports too.
But it seems to me that their flexible response isn't that flexible if people have to drive up from Dover, park up, get to the work area and start. What's that? 2-3 hours to get into position at LHR? A situation can easily develop within that time period. Everything is on a knife edge and one delay can have a ripple effect that goes on for hours. And you've just had a stressful commute and then are under continuing stress when you are there.
And what happens then at Dover at peak periods with staff redeployed where I guess they are much less able to predict demand?
It seems to me that all the cuts that have taken place in recent years (in this area and others) have meant that the flexibilty to respond to unusual peak demand is almost non existent and one solution is to have more trained staff. But that costs more money, so I guess the travelling public will have to get used to longer processing times as it becomes the norm. You could always downgrade the declared capacity to maintain service standards but that will never happen; it's too complicated.
As this is at Heathrow of course, the issue has a high profile but these delays are happening at other airports too.
Paxing All Over The World
It has been govt policy - of both main parties - to cut staffing across the board for the last 25+ years. The results show in the daily experience of us with the: NHS (all sections, inc Ambulance), Police, Fire Service, HMRC, Border staff, etcetera.
In my adult life, the Brits have continually voted for more public services at less cost to them. Well, they now have the result ....
In my adult life, the Brits have continually voted for more public services at less cost to them. Well, they now have the result ....
Part of the issue is the current fad for "Targets". I see that the passport management at Heathrow have set themselves a target that "90% of passengers must be processed in 45 minutes". That is a ludicrous target in the first place, the real target should be about 5 minutes, but it leads to the ludicrous complacency that as long as you can keep your wait times just under 45 minutes you have somehow "done your job".
Incidentally, the officers will process passengers at the same rate per hour regardless of whether the queue for them is 5 or 45 minutes.
Part of the issue is the current fad for "Targets". I see that the passport management at Heathrow have set themselves a target that "90% of passengers must be processed in 45 minutes". That is a ludicrous target in the first place, the real target should be about 5 minutes, but it leads to the ludicrous complacency that as long as you can keep your wait times just under 45 minutes you have somehow "done your job".
And, to answer a previous poster's question - yes, Heathrow prides itself on its use of Airport Collaborative Decision Making (A-CDM).
http://www.heathrow.com/file_source/...operations.pdf
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Collaborative Decision Making
So when I hear of folks shouting the odds around three letter acronyms ...? It's just more 21st century so called 'management'.
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It's an awful term for what it represents.
It's basically a system that forces airlines to be far more accurate in terms of telling ATC when they will be ready for start. From that, the system will build an ideal departure sequence; and from that output a Target Start Approval Time (having taken into account all sorts of things such as slot times, departure route and wake separations etc) to ATC.
The ATC network will have more accurate data on when flights are departing, as well as other users on the airport. The theory is that all the users who are involved in aircraft/passenger ops at an airport should be arranging their duties around the data from their CDM portal, including things like stand planning and immigration.
It's basically a system that forces airlines to be far more accurate in terms of telling ATC when they will be ready for start. From that, the system will build an ideal departure sequence; and from that output a Target Start Approval Time (having taken into account all sorts of things such as slot times, departure route and wake separations etc) to ATC.
The ATC network will have more accurate data on when flights are departing, as well as other users on the airport. The theory is that all the users who are involved in aircraft/passenger ops at an airport should be arranging their duties around the data from their CDM portal, including things like stand planning and immigration.
It's basically a system that forces airlines to be far more accurate in terms of telling ATC when they will be ready for start. From that, the system will build an ideal departure sequence; and from that output a Target Start Approval Time (having taken into account all sorts of things such as slot times, departure route and wake separations etc) to ATC.
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Well, part of the system is a series of updates sent when certain milestones are reached for inbound flights, so non-ATC organisations at the airport have a more accurate picture of when a certain flight will arrive.
The theory is also that as those responsible for stand allocation know the delays of each departure before the crew call ATC, they should be able to allocate stands to inbound flights according to actual forecast start times, rather than the scheduled start times.
The theory is also that as those responsible for stand allocation know the delays of each departure before the crew call ATC, they should be able to allocate stands to inbound flights according to actual forecast start times, rather than the scheduled start times.
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ACDM for inbound flights works best when the departure airport is CDM compliant. The majority still are not. One of the issues is that Europe failed to apply a common standard and set of procedures though so airlines (pilots and ops) have to learn a slightly different process for each airport. In any event there is a representative from the UK Border embedded within the master Heathrow Airport Operational Control Centre so they have forewarning of all movements and expected loads etc.
Certainly a rail industry similar "target" of 99% of trains will run, which meant 1% cancelled, which was quite a lot given the number of trains in question, was being well beaten by the operations side until they were challenged by the accountants that in doing better than the cancellations target they must be overstaffed, and incurring too high costs.
I believe that the first 12 inbounds that arrive before the 0600 end of night quota are particularly prone to immigration delays because the staff agreement is that anybody on duty before 0600 is paid night shift rate for their whole shift, so hardly anyone is got in at that time. As shift starts at the reporting point and it can be 30 minutes or so before they are at a desk, this has a big effect on early morning arrivals.
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Border Force
Border Force are represented in the management meetings at LHR and other airports. The problem is not so much when the aircraft come in (although between the terminals there's peak and troughs). Lets say at TN3 there's 30 officers for primary (passport) and secondary (customs) so ideally twenty desks are open & 10 staff are in the lanes but once passengers start arriving this is reduced by cases. So now we have 5 turn up no documents claim asylum, 2 who are on forged documents who are foreign criminals that were deported two weeks ago and then an American adult turns up with 14 year old boy, he's a registered sex offender how many officers are now checking passports. So the manager asks for some to come from customs but they can't leave as they have a stuffer & swaller (why they called that as the have 40 condoms of cocaine in their arse, 40 up their vagina and 80 in their stomach which one has burst) so they're short staffed so passengers may have to weight an extra 15 mins to get their passports checked. Yes Border Force are short staffed & lack funds but that's not the officer dealing with yourself fault that the Government of the day. This isn't a made up list this happens nearly ever day at an airport in the UK. Border Force primary function is law enforcement not making people get through an airport quickly. If they can they will process you as fast as they can but hey if that 15 year girl they're talking to is saved from being a prostitute then I think that's more important.
Service targets are 25 mins for EU and 45 mins for others. That's taken from when the queue starts in the arrivals hall.
Service targets are 25 mins for EU and 45 mins for others. That's taken from when the queue starts in the arrivals hall.
Last edited by GLAEDI; 1st Aug 2016 at 12:31.
Allow extra time for check-in this morning...
Black Lives Matter protesters block motorway route into Heathrow Airport as part of 'nationwide shutdown' - ITV News
Black Lives Matter protesters block motorway route into Heathrow Airport as part of 'nationwide shutdown' - ITV News
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LHR make you do security again even if you arrive on a BA domestic connection from MAN / GLA / EDI etc. It is extremely frustrating and time-consuming. And it only makes the travel experience 'safer' if you presume 1) that screeners at MAN / GLA / EDI perform their own thorough security search incompetently, and 2) that anybody with ill-intent would sit placidly through their first flight having successfully breached security and made it on board an airliner, then attack their onward connecting flight instead. But apparently those who organise things at LHR know better.
So the answer to you is YES. Expect a time-consuming duplicate security check, often performed by a scowling member of staff. LHR security specialises in these. Allow time to completely re-pack your bag after they've unnecessarily emptied everything out and left it in a pile.
So the answer to you is YES. Expect a time-consuming duplicate security check, often performed by a scowling member of staff. LHR security specialises in these. Allow time to completely re-pack your bag after they've unnecessarily emptied everything out and left it in a pile.