HEATHROW
I too have been a "trial passenger" at T5. I quite like the building. At the moment you get a great feeling of space. But I have my reservations. Many of the trial passengers don't seem to be regular travellers (nothing wrong with that as such), The result is an element of the herd instinct (just follow the person in front) which has some relevance for arriving passengers but not for departing. I'm also doubtful how much thought they are putting into their questionnaire answers.
The result is that I think there are a lot of shining reviews which may be leading BA and the BAA into a false sense of security. In particular I think there are some missing signs. For instance, acting as a transit passenger I found my way from T5B to the connections centre in T5a (using the TTS) and went back upstairs to be rescreened. But on exiting screening the gate wasn't promulgated and there was no indication what to do/where to go which resulted in people milling around immediately after security. Then as an arriving passsnger I got into the baggage hall and thought "where is the exit?" I'd missed a small illuminated overhead sign (which wasn't illuminated) at the foot of the escalator. There was no other sign pointing to the exit and when I questioned one of the hosts I was shown the (non) illuminated sign and told that the design of the wall in which the exit is situated called for it to be flat with no protruding signs which meant they couldn't put one up to point at the exit!
Anyway I'm taking the plunge and using it for real on 1st April so wish me luck. At least I now know where I'm likely to have to go.
The result is that I think there are a lot of shining reviews which may be leading BA and the BAA into a false sense of security. In particular I think there are some missing signs. For instance, acting as a transit passenger I found my way from T5B to the connections centre in T5a (using the TTS) and went back upstairs to be rescreened. But on exiting screening the gate wasn't promulgated and there was no indication what to do/where to go which resulted in people milling around immediately after security. Then as an arriving passsnger I got into the baggage hall and thought "where is the exit?" I'd missed a small illuminated overhead sign (which wasn't illuminated) at the foot of the escalator. There was no other sign pointing to the exit and when I questioned one of the hosts I was shown the (non) illuminated sign and told that the design of the wall in which the exit is situated called for it to be flat with no protruding signs which meant they couldn't put one up to point at the exit!
Anyway I'm taking the plunge and using it for real on 1st April so wish me luck. At least I now know where I'm likely to have to go.
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Thank you Hartington. First sensible reply !
I experienced the same as you plus a bit more.
Big airey building but a sad use of modern fashionable grey.
There is a whole science to the use of angles and curves to create a feeling of well being. Large and functionional but in some areas the practical design has a lot to be desired.
Does anybody remember the 1960's Pan Am Terminal at JFK ?
I quite like Abu Dhabi
TWA Building
Pan Am Building
I experienced the same as you plus a bit more.Big airey building but a sad use of modern fashionable grey.
There is a whole science to the use of angles and curves to create a feeling of well being. Large and functionional but in some areas the practical design has a lot to be desired.
Does anybody remember the 1960's Pan Am Terminal at JFK ?
I quite like Abu Dhabi
TWA Building
Pan Am Building
The connection I made(!) was to domestic and I understand that the general preference is going to be to use the low numbered gates in the A terminal for these services so I had to go from B to A. The signs for flight connections lead you that way. I did query B to B connections and I think I was told that if you wanted to it would be possible to stay in B. There was a sign not long after we got off the plane about flights within 90 minutes departing from B but I didn't read it because I never transit Heathrow, I was in herd mode following everyone else and in any case I knew I needed to get back to A. The main signage I saw was for flight connections and I believe that most connecting passengers will follow that (as I did) rather than look at the 90 minute sign.
As for segregation I was with arriving passengers all the way from the gate, on the TTS through to A and only segregated myself when I headed for the connections centre and they all went to arrivals.
Gate allocation is interesting. When I exited screening for my connecting flight the gate wasn't promulgated and there was no indication where to go so I (and others) ended up milling about just airside of security. The trouble is that if a turnaround is what, an hour, if you put up the gate before the inbound has actually arrived and occupied the gate you run the risk of having a gate change which is probably not in anyones interests. But then, how often do incoming aircraft get a stand change?
Talking about stands I was looking at the stop bars on the lead in at the gate we were using. No A 380. So I looked at some others and found one which included the 380. Then I realised that it effectively had 3 lead in lines. The primary had all sorts of stop bars (747, 757, 767, A319/320/321 and A380 from memory). Then, either side, two secondary lines with stop bars only for airbus narrow bodies. So it appears that when a 380 is not present two narrowbodies can occupy the same space.
As for segregation I was with arriving passengers all the way from the gate, on the TTS through to A and only segregated myself when I headed for the connections centre and they all went to arrivals.
Gate allocation is interesting. When I exited screening for my connecting flight the gate wasn't promulgated and there was no indication where to go so I (and others) ended up milling about just airside of security. The trouble is that if a turnaround is what, an hour, if you put up the gate before the inbound has actually arrived and occupied the gate you run the risk of having a gate change which is probably not in anyones interests. But then, how often do incoming aircraft get a stand change?
Talking about stands I was looking at the stop bars on the lead in at the gate we were using. No A 380. So I looked at some others and found one which included the 380. Then I realised that it effectively had 3 lead in lines. The primary had all sorts of stop bars (747, 757, 767, A319/320/321 and A380 from memory). Then, either side, two secondary lines with stop bars only for airbus narrow bodies. So it appears that when a 380 is not present two narrowbodies can occupy the same space.
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The main advantage of the TWA and PAA terminals at JFK was that they were both quite close to the BOAC terminal where, after a week of getting a frozen gullet in blacked-out US bars, at least you could get a decent warm English beer before boarding the late night VC10 to LHR.
Back on topic, no doubt T5 is an excellent piece of architecture with some relatively minor bugs, that will need to be ironed out in the early stages of operation.
The real problems will come over the coming years as the BAA (B Awful Airports) gradually turns it into a giant shopping mall, leaving little space for its intended function of getting passengers to and from surface transport, from and to the aircraft.
From there its a short step to the squalor of T3, from the dungeons linking it to the public transport system, through the endless queues tailed back from the ineffective security, passing insanitary toilets, dodging round said endless shops to trudging the endless piers where the travelators seldom work.
Do the sensible thing, and use your friendly local airport to access a continental hub airport that works, not one of these BAA ghettos.
Back on topic, no doubt T5 is an excellent piece of architecture with some relatively minor bugs, that will need to be ironed out in the early stages of operation.
The real problems will come over the coming years as the BAA (B Awful Airports) gradually turns it into a giant shopping mall, leaving little space for its intended function of getting passengers to and from surface transport, from and to the aircraft.
From there its a short step to the squalor of T3, from the dungeons linking it to the public transport system, through the endless queues tailed back from the ineffective security, passing insanitary toilets, dodging round said endless shops to trudging the endless piers where the travelators seldom work.
Do the sensible thing, and use your friendly local airport to access a continental hub airport that works, not one of these BAA ghettos.
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There are quite a few multi-stands in T5; so for example 544 is a 'Heavy' stand, and 544L and 544R are 'Medium' stands. This would apply if an A340, A330, 747 or 777 were parked on the 'Heavy' stand, not just a 380.
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Again, Hermano, you seem to be deliberately trying to provoke reaction rather than start discussion.
Maybe "Brother", the clues are there in your name, you have certainly entered here with the social skills of a Wolf.
Maybe "Brother", the clues are there in your name, you have certainly entered here with the social skills of a Wolf.
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Hey everybody, just a quick question on the side.
Im flying BD later on this year DUB-LHR-BRU and return, does anyone have any idea what the transfer between the 2 parts of the terminal are like?
Im flying BD later on this year DUB-LHR-BRU and return, does anyone have any idea what the transfer between the 2 parts of the terminal are like?
BD will not be using T5
So BRU-LHR-DUB on BD won't use T5. T5 will be BA only (at least that's the current plan).
See my previous post for some idea on the transfer process within T5. Someone else asked about T5 to/from the other terminals and the answer was "airside bus" (surprise).
See my previous post for some idea on the transfer process within T5. Someone else asked about T5 to/from the other terminals and the answer was "airside bus" (surprise).
It's a shopping Mall
The amount of shopping in T5 is already pretty awesome. One thing I did notice is that they seem to have several eating places which I think is probably good.
Unlike the other terminals where the shops have been added as an afterthought in T5 they've been part of the design from day 1. As such, if you need to get to the gate I don't think they really get in the way.
Unlike the other terminals where the shops have been added as an afterthought in T5 they've been part of the design from day 1. As such, if you need to get to the gate I don't think they really get in the way.
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It's a shopping Mall
It'll be an even bigger one once the dreaded BAA bean counters get to work! The current BA senior management is just too weak to stand up to their slum landlords!
Witness their misguided support for the totally misguided LHR expansion plans.
Witness their misguided support for the totally misguided LHR expansion plans.
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Viewedfromabove wrote: "T5 is an excellent piece of architecture"
As a piece of construction it is no doubt excellent, but as a piece of architecture, that depends on one's view.
I have given my views based on the experience of the trial. It is my perception, someone else would see it differently. I have given an honest opinion what I think, I don't need to go along with popular opinion. If you don't like my opinion, well tough luck.
It is no doubt a large and bright building but as another trialist next to me said,"Soulless!" - That is OUR opinion. We don't have any company or managers to please or show that we are 'on-board'.
Otherwise it is down to personal taste.
As a piece of construction it is no doubt excellent, but as a piece of architecture, that depends on one's view.
I have given my views based on the experience of the trial. It is my perception, someone else would see it differently. I have given an honest opinion what I think, I don't need to go along with popular opinion. If you don't like my opinion, well tough luck.
It is no doubt a large and bright building but as another trialist next to me said,"Soulless!" - That is OUR opinion. We don't have any company or managers to please or show that we are 'on-board'.
Otherwise it is down to personal taste.
Actually the travelators are often in working order but are either shut down to save on running costs or nobody can be bothered to come round and start them (probably because the somebody who used to do that has been "efficiencied" out of a job).
Went to Manchester for the day a short while ago, in Underground to T1 passage on the outbound an overloaded luggage trolley jammed on the slight rise at the end of the travelator, then overturned. Lots more people coming along behind, I pressed the emergency stop button to deal with it.
Came back after lunch, nobody had got round to starting it again. It's a simple press button inside the control box.
Went to Manchester for the day a short while ago, in Underground to T1 passage on the outbound an overloaded luggage trolley jammed on the slight rise at the end of the travelator, then overturned. Lots more people coming along behind, I pressed the emergency stop button to deal with it.
Came back after lunch, nobody had got round to starting it again. It's a simple press button inside the control box.
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Am travelling with BA to Germany through Terminal One in March and I was wondering if I can wander down to take some airside shots in Terminal Two airside, as it will be closing soon. I know T1 and T2 share some gates between the Europier and T2, is it possible to move freely between the two when airside on the departure level ?
Paxing All Over The World
Looking through the BAA website for information for my sister-in-law, who has to make a connection at EGLL that I never have to.
As I live close by, I do not need to get from the central bus station to T4. Memory says that she must:
no indication about getting to/from it. Obviously I know that there are tunnels to it but the map says nothing.
Was the Express closed when the Tube was - for the T5 expansion?
As I live close by, I do not need to get from the central bus station to T4. Memory says that she must:
- Take the lift to the Train Station
- Heathrow Express to T4
- Lift to the Departures level
no indication about getting to/from it. Obviously I know that there are tunnels to it but the map says nothing.
Was the Express closed when the Tube was - for the T5 expansion?
If the airlines concerned are transferring the baggage, don't they also have some appropriate shuttle busses as well ???
The alternative is get on a 285 bus which serves central and T4 (and then disappears to Kingston) but I wouldn't like to do it carrying all my suitcases.
DGG
edit ... asked a couple of guys who had done it and the HE is OK andf free between terminals .. there are also interlining shuttle busses.
DGG
The alternative is get on a 285 bus which serves central and T4 (and then disappears to Kingston) but I wouldn't like to do it carrying all my suitcases.
DGG
edit ... asked a couple of guys who had done it and the HE is OK andf free between terminals .. there are also interlining shuttle busses.
DGG
Last edited by Dave Gittins; 14th Feb 2008 at 10:12. Reason: brain fade between the 285 & 465 - and more info
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LHR Third Runway: needed yesterday. Probably won't be with us until at least 2015. Planning, legal challenges, Swampy brigade etc.
My only reservation is that the length seems to be "inching" up a bit; the original plan was for it to be about 2000-2200m (can't remember which) and now the latest plan has it being extended by a few hundred metres and I doubt if that will be the last. My understanding and hope was that this would be a runway for short haul aircraft, allowing easier feed to long haul flights, since short haul is being squeezed with demand for the current two runways. It wouldn't surprise me if, ultimately, the intention was to have the third runway at close to the length of the current terminal, in which case, short haul will ultimately be squeezed again.
As for T6, it is necessary, because without it, acft using the new runway will have to cross what is now 27R/9L and that will have an impact on operations on that runway; a new terminal close to R3 should avoid this.
As for the DC10/MD11, they definitely have three reversers, including one on the No2. I guess operation depends on the runway, but I flew j/s with Varig a few years back and was told that they prefer to use RT on 1 and 3 only, because if the No2 is locked or otherwise damaged, it would take longer to fix.
My only reservation is that the length seems to be "inching" up a bit; the original plan was for it to be about 2000-2200m (can't remember which) and now the latest plan has it being extended by a few hundred metres and I doubt if that will be the last. My understanding and hope was that this would be a runway for short haul aircraft, allowing easier feed to long haul flights, since short haul is being squeezed with demand for the current two runways. It wouldn't surprise me if, ultimately, the intention was to have the third runway at close to the length of the current terminal, in which case, short haul will ultimately be squeezed again.
As for T6, it is necessary, because without it, acft using the new runway will have to cross what is now 27R/9L and that will have an impact on operations on that runway; a new terminal close to R3 should avoid this.
As for the DC10/MD11, they definitely have three reversers, including one on the No2. I guess operation depends on the runway, but I flew j/s with Varig a few years back and was told that they prefer to use RT on 1 and 3 only, because if the No2 is locked or otherwise damaged, it would take longer to fix.
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Talking about stands I was looking at the stop bars on the lead in at the gate we were using. No A 380. So I looked at some others and found one which included the 380. Then I realised that it effectively had 3 lead in lines. The primary had all sorts of stop bars (747, 757, 767, A319/320/321 and A380 from memory). Then, either side, two secondary lines with stop bars only for airbus narrow bodies. So it appears that when a 380 is not present two narrowbodies can occupy the same space.
Manchester has a similar arrangement on most T2 pier served stands (which have been there since the terminal opened in 1993) and on the Apron outside the Cargo Terminal.
It makes sense to make the best available use of your concrete as the aircraft mix changes throughout the day.
Suzeman