HEATHROW
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Does the Sunday Times say WHY it will take to 2024?
Don't believe the second.
If there's NIMBY opposition to Heathrow expansion now, imagine what it will be like for an entire new airport allegedy twice the size of Heathrow plus all the associated infrastructure and urbanisation that will be needed!
If the government cannot decide on Heathrow expansion now, imagine how it will dither on a decision for an entire new airport allegedy twice the size of Heathrow plus all the associated infrastructure and urbanisation that will be needed!
And then, even in 2026, the airlines and their pax have to be persuaded to use it rather than Heathrow......
Don't believe the second.
If there's NIMBY opposition to Heathrow expansion now, imagine what it will be like for an entire new airport allegedy twice the size of Heathrow plus all the associated infrastructure and urbanisation that will be needed!
If the government cannot decide on Heathrow expansion now, imagine how it will dither on a decision for an entire new airport allegedy twice the size of Heathrow plus all the associated infrastructure and urbanisation that will be needed!
And then, even in 2026, the airlines and their pax have to be persuaded to use it rather than Heathrow......
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Planning permission, elections, building the thing. Hopelessly unrealistic claim which I believe originally came out of the mouth of a politician in support of Boris Island, hence the lunacy.
So it lays there, next to the Olympic Stadium, bare concrete and abandoned ......
Isn't is just beyond belief that there was government support and money for useless infrastructure like this, but nothing for a new runway for the nation's premier airport and gateway which has been at 100% capacity for many years.
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Quote: "Isn't is just beyond belief that there was government support and money for useless infrastructure like this, but nothing for a new runway for the nation's premier airport and gateway which has been at 100% capacity for many years."
Agreed, WHBM, you couldn't make it up!
Agreed, WHBM, you couldn't make it up!
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Isn't is just beyond belief that there was government support and money for useless infrastructure like this, but nothing for a new runway for the nation's premier airport and gateway which has been at 100% capacity for many years.
David Cameron, who has never actually had a proper job is PM. Edward Milliband, an academic and professional politician is the other realisitc option. The above is not beyond belief, it is now the norm. On one level, our democracy is breaking down. One does not have to be making a party political point to see that the talent rising to the top of politics is risible.
They have no track record of achievement and so each party, on finding itself in power, actually has little management ability. They coast and are at the mercy of events. Look at the end of the last government. They put a chap called Bob Ayling in charge of the nation's defence, he was the best man for the job in a stagnant talent pool. God help us.
We currently have the MP for Putney in charge of Transport, a woman with a clear conflict of interest at local level.
Last edited by Skipness One Echo; 2nd Sep 2012 at 17:53.
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S1E
very well said. We now have a chattering political class who are just ignoring the ordinary working class. you will also notice that no Government want to make any difficult decisions now, they will farm it out to some committee/royal inquiry in the hope that it can be put in the long grass or someone else can be blamed if it goes wrong. All they are concerned about is getting re-elected again, meanwhile our country is going down the tubes. Look at long term care issues for another example. None of them will ever have the courage to make a decision on airport policy until it is far too late. Meanwhile we burn.
TB
very well said. We now have a chattering political class who are just ignoring the ordinary working class. you will also notice that no Government want to make any difficult decisions now, they will farm it out to some committee/royal inquiry in the hope that it can be put in the long grass or someone else can be blamed if it goes wrong. All they are concerned about is getting re-elected again, meanwhile our country is going down the tubes. Look at long term care issues for another example. None of them will ever have the courage to make a decision on airport policy until it is far too late. Meanwhile we burn.
TB
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NONE of them has had a proper job, never "run anything" as Ken Livingstone is fond of saying.
Many of today's MPs no longer come from business, the trade unions, the professions or local government, etc..
It tends to be:
A level politics
politics degree
work for a "think tank"
work at party HQ and research department
work for an MP
work for a minister as a "special advisor"
become an MP
Not surprising that they get it all wrong so much of the time. there is no substitute for experience of the real world.
Could we do with a few MPs who have been in the aviation industry?
Many of today's MPs no longer come from business, the trade unions, the professions or local government, etc..
It tends to be:
A level politics
politics degree
work for a "think tank"
work at party HQ and research department
work for an MP
work for a minister as a "special advisor"
become an MP
Not surprising that they get it all wrong so much of the time. there is no substitute for experience of the real world.
Could we do with a few MPs who have been in the aviation industry?
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Last edited by A30yoyo; 2nd Sep 2012 at 18:38.
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Heathrow photo
Good photo of Heathrow! It illustrates well the amount of open space to the north of the airport for airport expansion.
It also shows Staines Moor, a "site of special scientific interest" (SSSI)
to the south-west of LHR between the reservoirs.
It has been suggested that a north-south rwy could be built here. Apart from any other considerations, it would only be usable for crosswind take-offs to the south (or crosswind landings from the south), because of conflicts with the existing rwys.
As such it would be of limited use and not a good investment compared to parallel rwy(s) north of the airport.
It also shows Staines Moor, a "site of special scientific interest" (SSSI)
to the south-west of LHR between the reservoirs.
It has been suggested that a north-south rwy could be built here. Apart from any other considerations, it would only be usable for crosswind take-offs to the south (or crosswind landings from the south), because of conflicts with the existing rwys.
As such it would be of limited use and not a good investment compared to parallel rwy(s) north of the airport.
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Its been made clear throughout the second half of the Twentieth Century that politicians haven't got a clue when it comes to aviation policy.
Just to be clear about the route of the High Speed 2 proposed railway, it will run from London Euston to Lichfield, just north of Birmingham. Anything else will be a continuation on existing railways.
You are talking about Phase 1, the second phase will indeed continue to Manchester and Leeds, from where a connection to the existing line near York will enable a faster journey time to Newcastle, provisionally about 2 hours.
The sort of location that Ryanair might call "Birmingham Airport". No idea what connection there might be. Possibly a shuttle bus.
So it lays there, next to the Olympic Stadium, bare concrete and abandoned
I for one have no doubt that once it starts operating, HS2 will be busy, and, just like the Olympics, people will declare it a roaring success. The problem will be when it comes to doing the final calculations, and they realise that so many billions put in can never be reclaimed.
An extra runway at Heathrow on the other hand should be a much easier call.
Paxing All Over The World
Aero Mad
Providing he wins the 2015 election? At this stage, I would say that it is still an open question. The next years are going to reveal him firmly wedded to his Chancellor - who has not been a success.
Agree with your translation but not your conclusion, PAXboy. If an independent commission finds that a third runway is the best answer, then who is David Cameron to turn down that recommendation? It is the easy way to go back on a manifesto pledge and that is the way he will do it.
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I would say that it is still an open question. The next years are going to reveal him firmly wedded to his Chancellor - who has not been a success.
"The third runway is lazy thinking by those who should know better"
Interesting article by Zac Goldsmith (Richmond Park MP) in the New Statesman:
New Statesman - The third runway is lazy thinking by those who should know better
Somewhat marred by a woolly proposal, a la Edwina Currie, to use Heathrow for routes to the west and Stansted for those to the east(!), but his take on U-turns is pretty unequivocal:
"So far, the government position hasn't actually shifted. This matters for a number of reasons. First, political promises need to mean something. As William Hague has said, there’s no justification in U-turns unless the facts change significantly. The facts around aviation haven’t changed. If we perform a U-turn, my colleagues - particularly those who are now calling for a U-turn – will struggle at the next election to persuade anyone who’ll listen to them that their manifesto is worth the paper it’s written on. If politicians drop their pledges, then why believe anything they promise?"
New Statesman - The third runway is lazy thinking by those who should know better
Somewhat marred by a woolly proposal, a la Edwina Currie, to use Heathrow for routes to the west and Stansted for those to the east(!), but his take on U-turns is pretty unequivocal:
"So far, the government position hasn't actually shifted. This matters for a number of reasons. First, political promises need to mean something. As William Hague has said, there’s no justification in U-turns unless the facts change significantly. The facts around aviation haven’t changed. If we perform a U-turn, my colleagues - particularly those who are now calling for a U-turn – will struggle at the next election to persuade anyone who’ll listen to them that their manifesto is worth the paper it’s written on. If politicians drop their pledges, then why believe anything they promise?"
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Greening has gone and billionaire blonde child Zac Goldsmith has threatened to resign his seat if runway 3 is reconsidered. The words toys and pram have arrived to be arranged.
Last edited by Skipness One Echo; 4th Sep 2012 at 23:43.
Interesting use of Photoshop in the picture for that article, the plane is flying under the power lines!
Hint: things farther away look smaller
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Oh dear Zac, I thought you were quite an intelligent man. Clearly not when it comes to airports!
And why, per chance, would people from Cyprus or Greece, not want to connect onwards to the USA or elsewhere? It is not as if either home grown airline offers them much choice in the matter. Hasn't he realised that the real ptp flights already use Gatters & Co?
The train has already won this argument! Does he not know that Eurostar already carries more people to PAR & BRU than all the airlines combined? that 80% of London to Manchester journeys are by rail? Or 100% to LPL / MME etc! Has he actually looked at the HS2 plans? If he has, he'll see that they will make very little difference to these numbers, as HS2 does not go as far as EDI / GLA.
High speed rail also exists beyond PAR / BRU, but wit the change, convenience falls off. Through running to AMS / CGN may pick a few more passengers off. Anything beyond this is nothing to do with the UK govt.
More like there is no reason why this ridiculous proposal should work? Has he been having dinner with Eggwina? Is there a single airport system anywhere in the world that operates in this manner? I don't mean one airport for domestic / turboprop / business & commuter - actually lining up by east and west? No!
Sorry Zac, but you need to go back to maths school. Since when does 2 + 1 = 4?
we need to stop clogging it up with point to point flights to places like Cyprus and Greece, which between them account for 87 weekly flights, and which contribute nothing to overall connectivity.
In addition, we need to encourage a shift from air to rail wherever possible. Every week, there are 78 flights to Brussels, 94 to Manchester, 37 to Newcastle, and 95 to Paris. All of these, and many others, can be reached easily by train. With a better high speed rail network, they will be easier still.
High speed rail also exists beyond PAR / BRU, but wit the change, convenience falls off. Through running to AMS / CGN may pick a few more passengers off. Anything beyond this is nothing to do with the UK govt.
There is no reason why we couldn’t facilitate a two-hub approach, with Heathrow catering (broadly speaking) for western-facing flights, and Stansted catering for eastern business flights.
"Simply calling on government to double the size of Heathrow is lazy half-thinking by people who ought to know better"
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jabird - have you never heard of politicians putting out being selective in what they say for their own ends ?