HEATHROW
"David Cameron and Nick Clegg are set to intervene in the increasingly fractious row over whether Heathrow should have a third runway by asking an independent commission to review the future of Britain’s airports. The commission could provide the Conservative prime minister with the political cover to perform a U-turn and authorise Heathrow’s expansion, most likely if the Tories win the next election."
Conservative Home
No definition offered re what constitutes "independent" in this context.
Conservative Home
No definition offered re what constitutes "independent" in this context.
I wonder how many of the Boris Island advocates realise that, when on easterlies, inbounds will start lining up overhead Canary Wharf and London City - pretty much the same points they do when Heathrow is on westerlies; Canary Wharf is at the midpoint between the two. So East London will be getting exactly the same noise effect that west London currently does.
So East London will be getting exactly the same noise effect that west London currently does.
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Edwina Currie demonstrating why politicians know absolutely naff all about aviation policy.
She says that Boris' Fantasy Island is needed; and the reason why is that it would be EASIER for "Eastern" flights, as they wouldn't have to travel over London. And transatlantic flights should remain at LHR as they wouldn't have to go over London.
You can't make this up.
She says that Boris' Fantasy Island is needed; and the reason why is that it would be EASIER for "Eastern" flights, as they wouldn't have to travel over London. And transatlantic flights should remain at LHR as they wouldn't have to go over London.
You can't make this up.
Presumably, by her logic, "western" trains should all terminate at Paddington and "eastern" trains at Liverpool St or Fenchurch St? Thankfully, we're at long last trying to sort that relic of crap Victorian planning out!
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Meanwhile Birmingham is keen to re-build itself, to develop BHX and recognises the essential ingredient of HS2 to see this come about. So is it really fair that government should ignore these aspirations, simply because West Londoner's have their heads up their bottoms and a blinkered view of life ??
If Birmingham thinks it can build a second runway, then get the local shareholders to stump up the cash. The fact is they had to use some AWM money for the runway extension, a pocket money project compared to a new runway.
Of course BHX should serve its local market, who would begrudge them that? However, pretending it can suddenly become London's second hub, and basing those hopes on a rail link which is far from certain is just daft.
Do you have a reference to that? All I get is her making stupid comments about Paralympic athletes.
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BBC Breakfast programme this morning, I nearly choked on my Frosties when she started spouting that guff.
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Quote: “To think that BHX will become "just as easy as Heathrow" when a 38 minute high speed rail link, which may not even happen, is going to drop passengers onto yet another people mover to take them to the terminal, is even more daft. This will still make BHX further from London than all "London" airports, except perhaps for SEN. Yet the new line isn't even planned to start early enough in the day to connect with the first wave of departures, and it is certain to cost far more to use than any other airport "express" service.”
Yes, in the unlikely event of a high speed railway, the chances are that it will carry pax to Heathrow and/or Ringway, or, in other words, away from Elmdon.
Quote: “I've no doubt some West Londoner's still look down their noses at East London, but without a political (Parliamentary) vision none of this would have come about.”
Quote: “Meanwhile Birmingham is keen to re-build itself, to develop BHX and recognises the essential ingredient of HS2 to see this come about. So is it really fair that government should ignore these aspirations, simply because West Londoner's have their heads up their bottoms and a blinkered view of life ??”
Why the attacks on “west Londoners“? Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly is a “west Londoner” (or for that matter, an “east Londoner“)?
Does this mean that someone whose postcode starts with the letter "W" hates someone whose starts with the letter "E"? Doesn't sound realistic.
This comment does not make any sense to me, surely one is either a Londoner or not.
Quote: “ Independent Commission on airports
I see the FT are reporting today the government (coalition) will announce an Independent Commission into expansion of the UK's airports.
The link is here, but pay-wall protected: Coalition to set up Heathrow inquiry - FT.com
but free at many English libraries.”
Oh dear they have found some really long grass! This long grass is more like jungle.
Quote: “The more independent the better maybe so as to maximise the political cover. Should this not have happened in 2010???”
Of course not, should have happened in the 1960s/1970s. One has to despair at their ability to waste even more public money on an issue that's been debated ad nauseum for 30 years.
Yes, in the unlikely event of a high speed railway, the chances are that it will carry pax to Heathrow and/or Ringway, or, in other words, away from Elmdon.
Quote: “I've no doubt some West Londoner's still look down their noses at East London, but without a political (Parliamentary) vision none of this would have come about.”
Quote: “Meanwhile Birmingham is keen to re-build itself, to develop BHX and recognises the essential ingredient of HS2 to see this come about. So is it really fair that government should ignore these aspirations, simply because West Londoner's have their heads up their bottoms and a blinkered view of life ??”
Why the attacks on “west Londoners“? Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly is a “west Londoner” (or for that matter, an “east Londoner“)?
Does this mean that someone whose postcode starts with the letter "W" hates someone whose starts with the letter "E"? Doesn't sound realistic.
This comment does not make any sense to me, surely one is either a Londoner or not.
Quote: “ Independent Commission on airports
I see the FT are reporting today the government (coalition) will announce an Independent Commission into expansion of the UK's airports.
The link is here, but pay-wall protected: Coalition to set up Heathrow inquiry - FT.com
but free at many English libraries.”
Oh dear they have found some really long grass! This long grass is more like jungle.
Quote: “The more independent the better maybe so as to maximise the political cover. Should this not have happened in 2010???”
Of course not, should have happened in the 1960s/1970s. One has to despair at their ability to waste even more public money on an issue that's been debated ad nauseum for 30 years.
Last edited by Fairdealfrank; 1st Sep 2012 at 22:20.
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Do the people of Birmingham actually want large numbers of passengers landing at their airport, who would then promptly exit the region as fast as possible is a south easterly direction?
Last edited by BKS Air Transport; 1st Sep 2012 at 22:42.
Paxing All Over The World
Independent Commission on airports
Translation
AMS, CDG, FRA can crack open the champage (again).
Translation
- We know what has to be done.
- We said what we originally said to win votes.
- If we thought that we could win more votes by publically supporting this thing -we would.
- But we aren't sure - so we are going to get some consultants to 'tell us' what to do.
- By the time there is an answer, another election will have happened.
AMS, CDG, FRA can crack open the champage (again).
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Agree with your translation but not your conclusion, PAXboy. If an independent commission finds that a third runway is the best answer, then who is David Cameron to turn down that recommendation? It is the easy way to go back on a manifesto pledge and that is the way he will do it.
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Yes, in the unlikely event of a high speed railway, the chances are that it will carry pax to Heathrow and/or Ringway, or, in other words, away from Elmdon.
* Old Oak Common junction will massively improve access to LHR, but:
* Direct link into LHR, costing £4bn+ - same as T5, highly unlikely to happen.
* Station serving MAN may or may not happen - consult not started on Ph2.
However, the "Y" will all convene on BHX, but there is no guarantee of how many trains will stop there. It might give an hour rail link to Leeds, but MAN can already offer that. Or, as you say, people just zap down to OOC.
Ultimately, HS2 is more of a gain for LHR than for either BHX or MAN, and as discussed elsewhere is neither a replacement for domestic flights nor for new airport capacity.
Not sure I'd call HS2 "unlikely", just far from certain. I'd give it odds of 60-40 in favour, shrinking all the time.
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Interesting comments, jabird, but suspect that the grass that "HS2" gets chucked into will be a great deal longer than that for the 3rd LHR rwy.
At present, reckon your 60-40 in favour is about right, but bearing in mind the 30 year dithering about the need for a mile-and-a-half of runway, expect a lot more for 140 mi. of track (yes, it's the long way to Brum).
At present, reckon your 60-40 in favour is about right, but bearing in mind the 30 year dithering about the need for a mile-and-a-half of runway, expect a lot more for 140 mi. of track (yes, it's the long way to Brum).
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At present, reckon your 60-40 in favour is about right, but bearing in mind the 30 year dithering about the need for a mile-and-a-half of runway, expect a lot more for 140 mi. of track (yes, it's the long way to Brum).
I totally agree that we get completely worked up over a very short strip of asphalt, but it is the wider impacts that create the problem, not just the land take.
Flying is perceived as being dirty, and there is an automatic assumption that trains are "green", even if they just outsource the pollution to the Trent Valley, and even if the current HS2 proposal is CO2 neutral at best, due to the extra journeys it creates, and its energy consumption relative to existing lines.
I've always been in favour in principle, until they came out with the line that HS2 was the alternative to LHR3, even though it only goes to Leeds / Manchester!
Not sure what you mean about the long way to Brum? Surely all the fuss from the Chilterns is that it carves a straight line through their patch with barely a curve, before making a slight dip to the left to run between Kenilworth and Coventry and then past BHX. Only at that point does it take a longer route compared to the existing line.
I'm hearing less of the air v rail line now about HS2, presumably because people have got their calculators out and realised that it will make negligble difference to the domestic market - not enough time saving to EDI / GLA to kill those routes, whereas LBA / MAN markets already largely won by the train. Maybe LHR-NCL is the one domestic route which will be challenged, all four flights per day!
So, who's going to be in this "independent" commission?
Surely the only people worthy of making a valid opinion on the future of aviation are past and present players/decision makers? Surely they'll be seen as more than a tad biased in one way or another?
Its been made clear throughout the second half of the Twentieth Century that politicians haven't got a clue when it comes to aviation policy.
Surely the only people worthy of making a valid opinion on the future of aviation are past and present players/decision makers? Surely they'll be seen as more than a tad biased in one way or another?
Its been made clear throughout the second half of the Twentieth Century that politicians haven't got a clue when it comes to aviation policy.
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I've always been in favour in principle, until they came out with the line that HS2 was the alternative to LHR3, even though it only goes to Leeds / Manchester....... it will make negligble difference to the domestic market - not enough time saving to EDI / GLA to kill those routes, whereas LBA / MAN markets already largely won by the train. Maybe LHR-NCL is the one domestic route which will be challenged, all four flights per day!
The "Birmingham Airport" station on the line will be nowhere close to the airport, even the present rail station requires a somewhat infrequent shuttle rather than being done properly, under the terminal, in the style of Amsterdam, Frankfurt or Zurich, who all managed to design their airport stations properly. The new Birmingham station will be way east of the terminal, far beyond the current station, beyond the NEC, beyond the M42 motorway, and way off in the fields beyond, by the A452 Chester Road, maybe 1.5 to 2 miles from the terminal. The sort of location that Ryanair might call "Birmingham Airport". No idea what connection there might be. Possibly a shuttle bus.
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London to Leeds and/or Manchester via Birmingham is the long way round! The "Y" if there is to one should be further east, perhaps nearer to the M1/M6 junction.
Many high speed rail stations (in several countries) tend to be out of the way at intermediate stops/interchanges when they should be central. Stratford is classic example, BHX will be another.
Time taken getting to/from a remote HS station, eliminates the benefit. If one has to go out of the way to travel on an HS train, it's probably cheaper to fly.
Many high speed rail stations (in several countries) tend to be out of the way at intermediate stops/interchanges when they should be central. Stratford is classic example, BHX will be another.
Time taken getting to/from a remote HS station, eliminates the benefit. If one has to go out of the way to travel on an HS train, it's probably cheaper to fly.
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The Sunday Times seemed to suggest that a third runway wouldn't be operational until 2024 (!) and that Boris Island would only take 2 years longer than that to finish (2026).
