HEATHROW

[jabird]

For anyone thinking the govt might be softening on LHR's 3rd runway, this article suggests otherwise:

Heathrow Airport expansion

I'm not sure if Ms Villiers has any more credibility than Greening - was she not the one who as shadow transport secretary promised that the new hs2 line, which only goes as far as Leeds and Manchester, and only then by 2032 - would be a replacement for the third runway?

I still think the runway plan has serious flaws, but what I take exception to is the idea that you can have the government pretending to have an "open" consultation on the matter whilst at the same time saying that Heathrow isn't even on the menu, as the transport secretary already has her token Greenpeace plot there!

[DaveReidUK]

Would they do that?

No, of course not, that was my point.

my reading of the situation is that these carriers would stay at LHR but expand their operations at AMS, CDG, FRA, etc., because of an inability to do so at LHR.

My reading too, hard to see what else they could do, hissy fit scenarios notwithstanding.

[Skipness One Echo]

What Villiers and Greening know about the industry could be tattooed on a gnat's bum. Populist nobodys who'll say any old baloney to get elected. Tragic.

[canberra97]

LHR Old Control Tower

Question) Is the old control tower planned to be demolished?

I know part of the office space around it has already been demolished but the old tower does seem to take up quite a bit of valuable land around the new terminal 2.

I know it has been the centre piece for Heathrow ever since the CTA was built in the early fifitys and for nostalgic reasons it will be missed if it was demolished but nostalgia aside it surely must come down at some point.

It might get alot of aviation enthusiasts very angry if it was gone but BAA do need the extra space in the CTA and the old tower is just not situated very well in terms of the new terminal 2 development.

[fonejacker]

I know the big red radar is scheduled to go pretty soon, the one opposite T1, at the mouth of the tunnel. Not sure about the old control tower though.

[Skipness One Echo]

I had a flash of the obvious today.Given BA have bought BMI and all the planning for Terminal 2 as exclusive for STAR had the whole BMI operation in there, might we see BA take that up instead allowing short haul to use the best facilities at LHR in T2 and T5?
Leave QANTAS and the JSA Australia long haul in T3 with Oneworld and move the small BA short haul operation into the new T2 with BMI?

Otherwise there's no way STAR will fill the new T2 as all planning would have been done with a based fleet of BMI airbuses in situ to fill the gates and manage passenger flows. Retail contracts would have been signed with this in mind like T5 was.
Win win for BA, as STAR no longer have an exclusive facility at BA's home base and BA can enjoy facilities on a par with T5.

A virtual Mars bar to the first person to tell me what time the B787 is supposed to be leaving please? Cheers !
Incidentally, the old Tower is coming down as part of the redevelopment of the CTA.

[DaveReidUK]

LHR Old Control Tower

It might get a lot of aviation enthusiasts very angry if it was gone

Gosh, that would never do.

Joking aside, clearly it's got to go, but it would be nice to see some commemoration to mark the passing of the last remnant of Gibberd's original CTA design.

[Heathrow Harry]

as a passenger LGW is a damn site easier to get through these days than LHR

getting rid of BAA was great move

[beaufort1]

I've just been watching the BBC news who were reporting on the three hour immigration queues at LHR terminal five yesterday evening, what with that and the toilet that is Gatwick, my decision to avoid London airports at all costs has definitely been the right one. What is it going to be like when the Olympics start?

[Aero Mad]

toilet that is Gatwick

As someone who uses LGW-GCI regularly when going onwards to ACI, I'm not really sure what you mean. It really is pretty seamless these days. As a Guernseyman, I wonder how you avoid Gatwick when connecting given that it is by far the most convenient option?

[FlyingEagle21]

Old Control Tower Demolition

In the 2011 CIP you will find all the information on the Old control tower demolition. (page 48)

http://www.baa.com/static/Heathrow/D...P2011_Full.pdf

Also in the 2011 CIP are the plans for T2C and T2D.

Found in the CIP for 2009-2011...

http://www.baa.com/static/BAA_Airpor...e_Document.pdf (page 158) T2D

http://www.baa.com/static/BAA_Airpor...20document.pdf (page 312) T2D



For T2D this will mean demolition on the BMI, Virgin and BA "Cathedral" hangars and relocation/reposition of the maintenance facility.

The New hangars will be build perpendicular to the runways and take up a lots less room. T2D will be built where current hangars start and everything shifted to the east.

T5D will be built around 2018 and linked to the repositioned T3 parallel Pier.

It's all in there! and I assume if a R3 is ever built T4 and the cargo will get overhauled/rebuilt perpendicular/parallel to the runway....who knows

[beaufort1]

As someone who uses LGW-GCI regularly when going onwards to ACI, I'm not really sure what you mean. It really is pretty seamless these days. As a Guernseyman, I wonder how you avoid Gatwick when connecting given that it is by far the most convenient option?

I've given up on Gatwick as I can't remember the last time when I've used it during the last ten years when there hasn't been some building/restoration work going on, and the security goons make travelling through there a fairly unpleasant experience. Having to negotiate the car park laughingly called the M25 makes onward travel a lottery when trying to catch onward connecting flights out of Heathrow. Travelling to Alderney from the UK you would be quicker routing direct through Southampton that would be a lot more convenient.

[davidjohnson6]

To those who slag off Heathrow and Gatwick (immigration delays being largely the responsibility of the Govt rather than BAA), I'm curious as to what it is that you really expect.

Nobody seems to want to pay a lot more in airport service charge. Both are very busy airports that are either at or not far off their design capacity. If you're going to compare these 2 airports to competitors, it should be against those which are also serving at least 20 million or more passengers, not against those serving less than 2 million.

Are places like Frankfurt or Barcelona really so wonderful in comparison to LHR and LGW ?

[Aero Mad]

I've given up on Gatwick as I can't remember the last time when I've used it during the last ten years... having to negotiate the car park laughingly called the M25 makes onward travel a lottery... travelling to Alderney from the UK you would be quicker routing direct through Southampton that would be a lot more convenient.

You should give Gatwick one more chance one of these days. Under new ownership it has changed considerably for the better. After the lane-widening, the M25 is no longer as bad as it was ten years ago; I've managed many a connecting flight by using the National Express services which are very good and have never suffered a delay. You say it would be quicker to go from SOU but often it is more expensive (which, including train fares, adds up to £80 more on a two person return booking), and also takes marginally longer when I only live ten miles from LGW (out of three journeys this summer, I am only using SOU once). Back to thread however...

[beaufort1]

I used Gatwick last year and it took nearly three hours by car to get to Heathrow to catch a flight. National Express I used about four years ago, on the return trip after a flight inbound via Heathrow not one of their scheduled coaches stopped, there was nobody to ask to get information and even though I had given myself over four hours to get to Gatwick we missed our flight back to Guernsey, on that particular trip I had no choice but to fork out over £300 for the two of us to use Flybe on a one way flight back into Guernsey. I complained to National Express along with about half a dozen other passengers who had suffered the same fate and I never even got a reply. I find it cheaper to use a taxi. As I said, I've given up using London airports when I can.

[Skipness One Echo]

For T2D this will mean demolition on the BMI, Virgin and BA "Cathedral" hangars and relocation/reposition of the maintenance facility.

The New hangars will be build perpendicular to the runways and take up a lots less room. T2D will be built where current hangars start and everything shifted to the east.

T5D will be built around 2018 and linked to the repositioned T3 parallel Pier.

Not sure "will" is the correct word, not all of this is going ahead, certainly not T5D and most assuredly not by 2018.

[DaveReidUK]

Not sure "will" is the correct word, not all of this is going ahead,
certainly not T5D and most assuredly not by 2018.

Quite so. Those Capital Investment Plans are just that - plans - and the timescales therein are subject to change.

For example, the 2011 CIP included provision for all the post-Cranford taxiway and runway exit works, for completion in April 2012, but the decision was taken in November last year to freeze the planning application because it could involve the local authority consulting Cranford residents while aircraft were already departing over their heads during the Operational Freedom trials.

[PAXboy]

Looking through one of those CIP documents, I have to say that the level of marketing bull$hit and management 'flannel' is VERY high.

[WHBM]

Originally Posted by DaveReidUK

For example, the 2011 CIP included provision for all the post-Cranford taxiway and runway exit works, for completion in April 2012, but the decision was taken in November last year to freeze the planning application because it could involve the local authority consulting Cranford residents while aircraft were already departing over their heads during the Operational Freedom trials.

It really is amazing that there are still, in 2012, not a full set of runway exits in place at Heathrow for 09R, after all these years. It's not as if there have not been plenty of landings on that runway over the years, what with periodic single runway ops (when rapid exit is surely essential), dual landing between 0600-0700, and all sorts of other instances. Any other European country with their key national aviation infrastructure, would have done this for the sake of some resilience over minimum expenditure, years before.

[Shiny side down]

Just a quick gripe about T5 and swapping terminals

Due to a last minute booking/error by the travel department, It was my joy recently to arrrive international at T3, and join the bus ride to T5, for my UK transfer.

Oh how I hate tensa-barriers. Getting to the bus, traversing the 6 U-turns as you walk through the makeshift queue lines, even though there were only a small handful of us. All watched by some smirking yoof.

The bus-ride is dire. Thrown about with reckless abandon, with lots of unhappy foreign pax wondering if this was normal.

Security screening at T5
(booking agents in foreign countries just dont get it, that you go through the mill even though you arrived international, to transfer at LHR)
Contradictory instructions by the screening staff. Laptop must come out, but iPad doesn't, before going through the machine.
On the other side of the machine, secondary search of cabin bags. Wait 45 minutes. What was common for about half of us for a secondary search, was-
We didn't take our iPads out of our bags; As explained by a snotty 'security' operative. When I explained that this was the instruction by the person on the input side of the belt, there was complete disinterest, and no effort to correct the problem.

Total time arriving T3 to being coffee side of T5 security- 1hr 25mins. Lots of highly unimpressed travelers from all over, forced through this bizarre effort.

Add this to the border agency efficiency, and we are making UK as attractive as the US to arrive into.

Maybe I'll book passage on a tramp cargo ship in future. Is that still possible...?