DUBLIN
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The lastest questionable idea for access to Dublin airport
The latest stupidity is that the metro is being designed with the station that's supposed to serve the airport being planned to be under the Great Southern Hotel. That's over 800 Mtrs from the terminal, the wrong side of all the access roads, and with at present no usable pedestrian links to the terminal. Unless they come up with a VERY good design for a fast, accessible, powered covered travelator/walkway system, then it might be simpler and cheaper to forget the idea, as it won't get used. Could the concept that DAA owns the Great Southern, so will be able to make massive charges for "interlinking" to the terminal perhaps be connected, or is this a way to give DAA a "backhander" to reduce the debt mountain, the "cost" of putting the metro under the hotel needs to be watched VERY closely to ensure that there's not some "interesting" curved balls here!!!!
I was under the mistaken impression that an underground rail service to an airport terminal was supposed to connect to the terminal, not to some spurious location half a mile away that has no connections to the terminal worth talking about at present.
In view of the moderators problems with us using "strong" language about politicians and the like, I shall refrain from anything stronger, but I despair, whoever came up with this half baked insane concept is even more divorced from reality than the rest of the eejits that supposedly are in charge of Ireland's most successful pub!
I was under the mistaken impression that an underground rail service to an airport terminal was supposed to connect to the terminal, not to some spurious location half a mile away that has no connections to the terminal worth talking about at present.
In view of the moderators problems with us using "strong" language about politicians and the like, I shall refrain from anything stronger, but I despair, whoever came up with this half baked insane concept is even more divorced from reality than the rest of the eejits that supposedly are in charge of Ireland's most successful pub!
ARRGH!!
Well, I suppose no one is trying to sell Dublin Airport, but they are trying to sell the hotel, so why not promise to run the metro to it?
While I think of it, doesn't the terminal already have a basement that was intended to be used for a rail link? So why go the expense and engineering complexity of building a metro station under a hotel?
JAS
Well, I suppose no one is trying to sell Dublin Airport, but they are trying to sell the hotel, so why not promise to run the metro to it?
While I think of it, doesn't the terminal already have a basement that was intended to be used for a rail link? So why go the expense and engineering complexity of building a metro station under a hotel?
JAS
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Hopefully they don't come up with a people mover like Pearson's to link Metro with the terminal(s) - more like a rollercoaster I hear.
Steve, very good point...
EI-RB, here's one to stir things up, under current Road Traffic Legislation (I can dig up the Act & Section if needs be) HGV's are prohibited from using the carraigeway adjacent to the central margin on Motorways, largely ignored as you may have guessed. The entrance to the Port Tunnel from the M1 will involve HGV traffic moving to these prohibitied outside lanes - leading into the tunnel and all other surface city traffic, ie faster moving cars, taxis etc moving to the inside lanes. Apart from the chaos, imagine the court case following the inevitible collision...
EI-RB, here's one to stir things up, under current Road Traffic Legislation (I can dig up the Act & Section if needs be) HGV's are prohibited from using the carraigeway adjacent to the central margin on Motorways, largely ignored as you may have guessed. The entrance to the Port Tunnel from the M1 will involve HGV traffic moving to these prohibitied outside lanes - leading into the tunnel and all other surface city traffic, ie faster moving cars, taxis etc moving to the inside lanes. Apart from the chaos, imagine the court case following the inevitible collision...
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EI-RB
I doubt the combined brainpower of a politically appointed board like DAA could manage more than one business unit at a time. If they had a business case to keep the DUB GSH (but not under GSH name) I could understand it but the rest including the brand should be flogged. Perhaps an existing hotel group with an unexciting name (Lynch Hotels springs to mind) would go for the rather grander brand and pay a premium to acquire it.
I doubt the combined brainpower of a politically appointed board like DAA could manage more than one business unit at a time. If they had a business case to keep the DUB GSH (but not under GSH name) I could understand it but the rest including the brand should be flogged. Perhaps an existing hotel group with an unexciting name (Lynch Hotels springs to mind) would go for the rather grander brand and pay a premium to acquire it.
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Well EI-RB given that I am a civil engineer I can only say that we build what the architects and planners give us.
Rule no.1 for a civil engineer. when all goes wrong blame the architect!
Rule no.1 for a civil engineer. when all goes wrong blame the architect!
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About 25 years after it is required,
subject to about ten years of Environmental Impact Assessments, then
followed by another ten years of objections from the residents of Portmarnock. (All of whose houses were built after the plans for the runway were proposed).
subject to about ten years of Environmental Impact Assessments, then
followed by another ten years of objections from the residents of Portmarnock. (All of whose houses were built after the plans for the runway were proposed).
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A330busdriver
A330busdriver have you actually looked at the facts yet?
I agree its about 25years after its required, however most of the houses in Portmarnock were in fact built well before plans for the first 28/10 runway was planned.
There is a lot of new developments in the Portmarnock area in fact right under the current flight path however the large majority are there since the vickers days of Aerlingus.
The answer of another runway is just the cheap answer to the problem, another Airport is the solution to the problem, and think of all those people who could travel to Baldonel without having to use a toll road! Maybe thats why its not being used as a second Airport because the gov have no toll road to it yet!!!!! Dublin Airport is surrounded by toll roads.
A330busdriver have you actually looked at the facts yet?
I agree its about 25years after its required, however most of the houses in Portmarnock were in fact built well before plans for the first 28/10 runway was planned.
There is a lot of new developments in the Portmarnock area in fact right under the current flight path however the large majority are there since the vickers days of Aerlingus.
The answer of another runway is just the cheap answer to the problem, another Airport is the solution to the problem, and think of all those people who could travel to Baldonel without having to use a toll road! Maybe thats why its not being used as a second Airport because the gov have no toll road to it yet!!!!! Dublin Airport is surrounded by toll roads.
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dublin
The second main runway as proposed by the DAA has been in the Fingal master plan for at least 30 years the present plan even allows for land to extend both the existing10/28 and the new runway.The runway will get the go ahead as the terminal 2 and extra piers are being built and also the metro is due to stop at the airport.So it looks as if all efforts are pointed at the one airport.I live a couple of miles down from the airport and most people accept the fact that the airport is going to grow with more traffic both air and road.All the residents in Portmarnock can hope for is better noise levels from newer aircraft and better flight paths.
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Originally Posted by Mr.Brown
.
Dublin Airport is surrounded by toll roads.
Dublin Airport is surrounded by toll roads.
2nd Airport option
Oddly enough ...
the State currently owns a second facility with Motorway access AND near by rail link ... no not Baldonnel (no rail link) but Gormanstown (EIGM), which is currently not used. OK, the main runway is short (but could be extended, just look at Weston, and yes I know the 'extension' is currently not 'runway').
No wait, sorry it's a non runner, the government party Finna Fail has promised to give the land to their buddies in the property development sector to build houses.
Oh well
JAS
the State currently owns a second facility with Motorway access AND near by rail link ... no not Baldonnel (no rail link) but Gormanstown (EIGM), which is currently not used. OK, the main runway is short (but could be extended, just look at Weston, and yes I know the 'extension' is currently not 'runway').
No wait, sorry it's a non runner, the government party Finna Fail has promised to give the land to their buddies in the property development sector to build houses.
Oh well
JAS
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They need a new airport for Dublin?? Are you mad???
The space around the current site is fine. Its only 6miles from the city center. The only tolls I can think of are for the M25 Toll Bridge, THe M1 way up past Drogheda and when the Dublin Port Tunnel opens. I live in Malahide, my house will be very much effected by the new runway yet very few people in my area are kicking up a fuss. After all, the airport was there long before most of us were.
All they really need to do with dublin airport is blow up the terminal and start all over with a nice swanky design.
The space around the current site is fine. Its only 6miles from the city center. The only tolls I can think of are for the M25 Toll Bridge, THe M1 way up past Drogheda and when the Dublin Port Tunnel opens. I live in Malahide, my house will be very much effected by the new runway yet very few people in my area are kicking up a fuss. After all, the airport was there long before most of us were.
All they really need to do with dublin airport is blow up the terminal and start all over with a nice swanky design.
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Mr. Brown,
I don't think devloping Baldonnel into an international airport is the solution to the NIMBY problem, just look at the problems Weston has run into in the past few years.
Now just super impose Dublin airport's opeartion flying all over Baldonnel and I'd say you would have a few complaints!
True Dublin could do with a 'new' airport, but I don't see anything wrong with it's current location. So with a new airport will come a new runway and terminals, I don't see a runway as being a 'cheap' solution to the problem, and I don't think 3000x45M worth of concrete will be cheap!
MK
I don't think devloping Baldonnel into an international airport is the solution to the NIMBY problem, just look at the problems Weston has run into in the past few years.
Now just super impose Dublin airport's opeartion flying all over Baldonnel and I'd say you would have a few complaints!
True Dublin could do with a 'new' airport, but I don't see anything wrong with it's current location. So with a new airport will come a new runway and terminals, I don't see a runway as being a 'cheap' solution to the problem, and I don't think 3000x45M worth of concrete will be cheap!
MK
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Anyone coming from the North and the West nearly all have to pay a toll just to get to the airport at the moment.
Another Airport at Baldonel would allow the massive market from the midlands much easier access and would be an ideal location for a main cargo terrminal in the Dublin region.
Unfortunatley another runway is on the way no matter how much people(including my self) give out about it, If the Gov want it they'll get it. Just like the Nice treaty!
It seems to be the cheaper solution to build another runway not a cheap solution. Like everything in Ireland it's half arsed! They build the M50 to help congestion in the centre of Dublin and to ease the movement of people from one side of the city to the other, but the cheap way was to build it with two lanes either side. Yeh everyone is happy. Now its as congested as the city centre. Why not initially build it with 3 lanes in the first place?
We need a bit more foresight fom our gov!
Before the land, for the new plans @ Dublin Airport, was sold I ask who owned it? Some of our local politicians maybe!
Another scam infront of our eyes!
Eircom used to be a state company, I know lets sell it to the taxpayers and overvalue the shares!
Scam after scam
Another Airport at Baldonel would allow the massive market from the midlands much easier access and would be an ideal location for a main cargo terrminal in the Dublin region.
Unfortunatley another runway is on the way no matter how much people(including my self) give out about it, If the Gov want it they'll get it. Just like the Nice treaty!
It seems to be the cheaper solution to build another runway not a cheap solution. Like everything in Ireland it's half arsed! They build the M50 to help congestion in the centre of Dublin and to ease the movement of people from one side of the city to the other, but the cheap way was to build it with two lanes either side. Yeh everyone is happy. Now its as congested as the city centre. Why not initially build it with 3 lanes in the first place?
We need a bit more foresight fom our gov!
Before the land, for the new plans @ Dublin Airport, was sold I ask who owned it? Some of our local politicians maybe!
Another scam infront of our eyes!
Eircom used to be a state company, I know lets sell it to the taxpayers and overvalue the shares!
Scam after scam
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Mr. Brown - do you honestly believe that if a new airport was developed at Baldonnel that there wouldn't be a toll road to get to it from the North or West? Toll roads appear to be the future in Ireland, whether we like it or not.
I'd like to see Baldonnell opened as a commercial airport, but i believe the Air Corps don't want to leave it or share it.
A new airport on a green field site would involve massive construction of more roads, rail links etc., & would increase journey times for the majority of people who currently use DUB. I don't want to travel to (for example) Mullingar or Athlone to catch a flight to London. Even if it is €0.01 e/w + tax
I'd like to see Baldonnell opened as a commercial airport, but i believe the Air Corps don't want to leave it or share it.
A new airport on a green field site would involve massive construction of more roads, rail links etc., & would increase journey times for the majority of people who currently use DUB. I don't want to travel to (for example) Mullingar or Athlone to catch a flight to London. Even if it is €0.01 e/w + tax
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Mr Brown,
the DAP development plan is over thirty years old. The area to the north of Malahide Golf course, and the green belt which was built on some fifteen to twenty years ago - Dal Riada etc is directly under the proposed appraoch path as far as I recall.
Part of the solution to the M50 would be the removal of the toll plaza which generates such lenghty delays daily.
Perhaps the real scam that you should be crowing about is the manner in which the County master plan was ignored when some of these housing estates in the green belt were approved.
the DAP development plan is over thirty years old. The area to the north of Malahide Golf course, and the green belt which was built on some fifteen to twenty years ago - Dal Riada etc is directly under the proposed appraoch path as far as I recall.
Part of the solution to the M50 would be the removal of the toll plaza which generates such lenghty delays daily.
Perhaps the real scam that you should be crowing about is the manner in which the County master plan was ignored when some of these housing estates in the green belt were approved.
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Originally Posted by Mr.Brown
.
A330busdriver have you actually looked at the facts yet?
I agree its about 25years after its required, however most of the houses in Portmarnock were in fact built well before plans for the first 28/10 runway was planned.
There is a lot of new developments in the Portmarnock area in fact right under the current flight path however the large majority are there since the vickers days of Aerlingus.
The answer of another runway is just the cheap answer to the problem, another Airport is the solution to the problem, and think of all those people who could travel to Baldonel without having to use a toll road! Maybe thats why its not being used as a second Airport because the gov have no toll road to it yet!!!!! Dublin Airport is surrounded by toll roads.
A330busdriver have you actually looked at the facts yet?
I agree its about 25years after its required, however most of the houses in Portmarnock were in fact built well before plans for the first 28/10 runway was planned.
There is a lot of new developments in the Portmarnock area in fact right under the current flight path however the large majority are there since the vickers days of Aerlingus.
The answer of another runway is just the cheap answer to the problem, another Airport is the solution to the problem, and think of all those people who could travel to Baldonel without having to use a toll road! Maybe thats why its not being used as a second Airport because the gov have no toll road to it yet!!!!! Dublin Airport is surrounded by toll roads.
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I lived for 25 years around the southern 'village' area of Portmarnock, the end closest to the current 28 approach, about 1.5km north of the current 28 outer marker. The noise levels are not an issue in my opinion. When it is noisy is when 10 is in use and the aircraft are taking off over Portmarnock. Even so, noise at the north end of Portmarnock (the most built up area and 2-3km further north) is considerably less and of very little concern at all.
It would seem to me that the sensible thing to do under normal conditions is make approaches on the current runway, which will be 28L/10R and take offs from the new northern runway, which will take the departing traffic out further to the north and thus further away from urban areas. More traffic movements perhaps but no increase in noise over Portmarnock.
With an easterly wind, using the current runway for take off (which would then be 10R) will bring the departing aircraft between the southern (less built up) side of Portmarnock and Baldoyle. Approaching aircraft to 10L will again be further to the north than the current approach path thus lessening noise for residents west and southwest of the airfield.
End result, more arrivals or departures for Portmarnock residents but noise from any particular aircraft will be the same levels they currently are. In terms of all the residents in the vicinity of the airfield there would be a reduction in the total noise levels.
Glad I don't live there anymore. Many of those local residents groups made me
and 
It would seem to me that the sensible thing to do under normal conditions is make approaches on the current runway, which will be 28L/10R and take offs from the new northern runway, which will take the departing traffic out further to the north and thus further away from urban areas. More traffic movements perhaps but no increase in noise over Portmarnock.
With an easterly wind, using the current runway for take off (which would then be 10R) will bring the departing aircraft between the southern (less built up) side of Portmarnock and Baldoyle. Approaching aircraft to 10L will again be further to the north than the current approach path thus lessening noise for residents west and southwest of the airfield.
End result, more arrivals or departures for Portmarnock residents but noise from any particular aircraft will be the same levels they currently are. In terms of all the residents in the vicinity of the airfield there would be a reduction in the total noise levels.
Glad I don't live there anymore. Many of those local residents groups made me
and
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Originally Posted by DrKev
Glad I don't live there anymore. Many of those local residents groups made me and
and