NEWQUAY
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TCAS FAN,
From what I have heard the council was poorly advised, probably by an unqualified quango adviser on a huge payment and a final payment civil service pension scheme (
sorry, that's my spin on it), as to the length of time the CAA require to certify the change over.
Probably screwed up on the cost as well.
Haven't we all been on the end of the phone to the CAA at some point?
From what I have heard the council was poorly advised, probably by an unqualified quango adviser on a huge payment and a final payment civil service pension scheme (
sorry, that's my spin on it), as to the length of time the CAA require to certify the change over. Probably screwed up on the cost as well.
Haven't we all been on the end of the phone to the CAA at some point?
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Interestingly, the initial comments led me to believe it was being held up by delays in the paperwork from the CAA.
Newquay were always going to be on a tight timescale, but a lot of us known (to our cost) that the Belgano aren't noted for their speed, when it comes to issuing the certificates......
Newquay were always going to be on a tight timescale, but a lot of us known (to our cost) that the Belgano aren't noted for their speed, when it comes to issuing the certificates......
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ITV Westcountry Made it sound like that the RAF SHOULD step in as a favour to the Council, the council forget that the RAF is fully streached out.
I bet if any of us 'forgot' to pay our Council tax, the shoe would be on the other foot
I bet if any of us 'forgot' to pay our Council tax, the shoe would be on the other foot
Robin
Facts please. Which part of CAA, Aerodrome Standards (ie Aerodrome Licence) or Air Traffic Standards (ie ANSP Certification)?
Cannot see that CAA caused delay, they would have indicated to the Council what the timescale was when the whole transition process began. If it was unachievable then the Council should have put their hands up long ago and notified all the stakeholders of the possible closure.
If consultants let the Council down, time to name/shame and let them take some of the current flak aimed at the Council.
Facts please. Which part of CAA, Aerodrome Standards (ie Aerodrome Licence) or Air Traffic Standards (ie ANSP Certification)?
Cannot see that CAA caused delay, they would have indicated to the Council what the timescale was when the whole transition process began. If it was unachievable then the Council should have put their hands up long ago and notified all the stakeholders of the possible closure.
If consultants let the Council down, time to name/shame and let them take some of the current flak aimed at the Council.
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wanabenavypilot
A bunch of us 'singlies' from deepest, darkest, Kernow withheld our 'poll tax/council tax' shortly before shipping out for a little exercise in the Gulf at the start of the 90's. It was done in protest at shipping out, on the Governments behest, and Kerrier being the only Council in the UK not to waive poll tax for serving forces personnel.
We paid in full, in cash, shortly before embarking and took our receipts with us. Upon returning to Kernow, 7 1/2 moths later, using no services, bins, libraries, roads etc. we were greeted at the gates by Bailiffs from Kerrier County Council. No 'thanks boys' or 'Well done' or the such, just 'pay up or we'll take you to court'.
Upon production of payment receipts the council didn't even have the good grace to apologise.
Oddly enough I have no time whatsoever for Cornish Councils and the belief that the military has a requirement to assist them is just farcical.
A bunch of us 'singlies' from deepest, darkest, Kernow withheld our 'poll tax/council tax' shortly before shipping out for a little exercise in the Gulf at the start of the 90's. It was done in protest at shipping out, on the Governments behest, and Kerrier being the only Council in the UK not to waive poll tax for serving forces personnel.
We paid in full, in cash, shortly before embarking and took our receipts with us. Upon returning to Kernow, 7 1/2 moths later, using no services, bins, libraries, roads etc. we were greeted at the gates by Bailiffs from Kerrier County Council. No 'thanks boys' or 'Well done' or the such, just 'pay up or we'll take you to court'.
Upon production of payment receipts the council didn't even have the good grace to apologise.
Oddly enough I have no time whatsoever for Cornish Councils and the belief that the military has a requirement to assist them is just farcical.
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wobble2plank,
That is an Outrageous practice of Collecting Council Tax, the Council should have more respect for Our Military. If someone from the Council came knocking on my door after I just got back from a War Zone, asking for Council Tax payments after not living in the UK for 8 months, I would not just tell them Where to go, they would get a punch on the Nose.
WNP
That is an Outrageous practice of Collecting Council Tax, the Council should have more respect for Our Military. If someone from the Council came knocking on my door after I just got back from a War Zone, asking for Council Tax payments after not living in the UK for 8 months, I would not just tell them Where to go, they would get a punch on the Nose.
WNP
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Among others, I have been following the fortunes of Newquay airport ever since the MoD first said it might leave, ie many years ago.
The story is a sad saga of incompetence and stupidity on the part of Cornwall County Council, featuring their appallingly bad and probably corrupt process of recruiting a company to run it for them, and their total ignorance of aviation together with a determination to run things while refusing to recognise that ignorance.
Time and again Council officials have reacted angrily to any suggestion that they were getting it wrong, and that it would all end in tears. This reaction flowed from the fact that they were so woefully ignorant that they could not even see what was going wrong.
They engaged individuals with no relevant qualifications or experience in airport management.
The current situation was predictable and predicted. If I were Ryanair I would have taken much stronger action than the very reasonable line taken. There is no hope that anyone in Cornwall will launch some kind of maladministration action, but that's what should happen.
To those of us who have tried again and again to bring the Council to its senses it has been a frustrating few years, characterised by defensive rebuffs from idiots at all levels, including "Cabinet" and Councillors.
The story is a sad saga of incompetence and stupidity on the part of Cornwall County Council, featuring their appallingly bad and probably corrupt process of recruiting a company to run it for them, and their total ignorance of aviation together with a determination to run things while refusing to recognise that ignorance.
Time and again Council officials have reacted angrily to any suggestion that they were getting it wrong, and that it would all end in tears. This reaction flowed from the fact that they were so woefully ignorant that they could not even see what was going wrong.
They engaged individuals with no relevant qualifications or experience in airport management.
The current situation was predictable and predicted. If I were Ryanair I would have taken much stronger action than the very reasonable line taken. There is no hope that anyone in Cornwall will launch some kind of maladministration action, but that's what should happen.
To those of us who have tried again and again to bring the Council to its senses it has been a frustrating few years, characterised by defensive rebuffs from idiots at all levels, including "Cabinet" and Councillors.
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Guys there two other threads on this and several press releases that explain the reasons for the closure. The none issue of the ATC licence
is the main reason. The CAA are going back in a couple of weeks to do the ATC inspection as they were not ready for it last week.
is the main reason. The CAA are going back in a couple of weeks to do the ATC inspection as they were not ready for it last week.
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Ducki
Handling equipment such as GPUs is not the concern of Aerodrome Standards who award the Licence, which is about compliance with CAP 168.
Airport equipment such as ground lighting, approach aids and so on is the concern of AS, and therefore so are the provisions in place to ensure its proper maintenancer and monitoring.
The CAA might conceivably be interested in handling equipment from the continuing airworthiness angle, but I very much doubt it; it's the aircraft operator's responsibility to make sure it works OK, even when the equipment is provided by a contractor such as a handling agent.
Handling equipment such as GPUs is not the concern of Aerodrome Standards who award the Licence, which is about compliance with CAP 168.
Airport equipment such as ground lighting, approach aids and so on is the concern of AS, and therefore so are the provisions in place to ensure its proper maintenancer and monitoring.
The CAA might conceivably be interested in handling equipment from the continuing airworthiness angle, but I very much doubt it; it's the aircraft operator's responsibility to make sure it works OK, even when the equipment is provided by a contractor such as a handling agent.
Last edited by Capot; 30th Nov 2008 at 12:00.
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Why are people blaming the council, when it is not their fault at all?
If not the Council, whose fault is it, exactly?
See the latest thread on Newquay, unless the mods merge them.
CCC successfully conned the Boundaries authorities into persuading them that they could 'merge' (ie take over) with the six district councils, showing heaps of detailed cost savings blah blah and then being told in July 2007 to go for it, with a set date of handover of April next year.
My other half works for one of the DCs, with her department being one of the pilots for the new authority. At the moment, from what she says, nobody has a clue as to what the new staffing level will be, what organisation will take, whether she will continue to work from her DC office or at CCC HQ. Strategy briefings take the form of 'we've done this so far', falling strangely quiet when somebody asks what happens next.
And April 2009 is not far away.
Cornwall County Council? I wouldn't trust them to run a tap, let alone an airport.
Oh, and what is that freshly dug earthbank around the NQY perimeter for anyway?
My other half works for one of the DCs, with her department being one of the pilots for the new authority. At the moment, from what she says, nobody has a clue as to what the new staffing level will be, what organisation will take, whether she will continue to work from her DC office or at CCC HQ. Strategy briefings take the form of 'we've done this so far', falling strangely quiet when somebody asks what happens next.
And April 2009 is not far away.
Cornwall County Council? I wouldn't trust them to run a tap, let alone an airport.
Oh, and what is that freshly dug earthbank around the NQY perimeter for anyway?
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My understanding is that the airport have not managed to have their safety cases audited by CAA in the timescales previously identified. These cover several areas (including navaids and the overall operation). this is not the fault of CAA, CCC awarded these contracts over 2 years ago (although I'm not sure when they srated paying the contractors - an ongoing issue I understand).
I read all this with disbelief. Here are three public bodies (the council, the CAA and the RAF), all supported by public funds and meant to be operating in the best interests of the public.
Yet they all seem to be wanting to work within their own rules, disregarding whatever impact that may have on the public who actually feed them. Are the CAA not capable of giving strong advice, giving temporary approvals outside their normal guidelines to keep things going for a short while, guidance to new owners of an airport, and other helpful things ? Are the council bureaucrats not able to work outside their normal 09.30 to 16.00 office hours ? Couldn't the RAF somewhere along the line have seen this coming, and offered helpful advice and warnings in advance to the other two about what was looming ? It seems this is the sort of thing that happens when Jobsworth meets Jobsworth.
Yet they all seem to be wanting to work within their own rules, disregarding whatever impact that may have on the public who actually feed them. Are the CAA not capable of giving strong advice, giving temporary approvals outside their normal guidelines to keep things going for a short while, guidance to new owners of an airport, and other helpful things ? Are the council bureaucrats not able to work outside their normal 09.30 to 16.00 office hours ? Couldn't the RAF somewhere along the line have seen this coming, and offered helpful advice and warnings in advance to the other two about what was looming ? It seems this is the sort of thing that happens when Jobsworth meets Jobsworth.
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WHBM
I think you'll find that the reality of the situation is that CCC have created the fiasco all on their own, and the CAA and the RAF have been trying to advise them for years but, as I discovered, CCC cannot be advised.
When you are dealing with people who simply refuse to accept that they can be wrong, who simply don't know how little they know, there comes a time when you simply give up, recalling the Biblical phrase "You can't kick against the pricks", and move on.
Perhaps the CAA and RAF eventually felt the same way.
Changing the subject....sort of......
CCC's performance over St Mawgan/Newquay Airport pales into insignificance aganst their performance over the £millions of EU funding they lost on behalf of their ratepayers....but that's another story, another saga of incompetence. But it does reinforce the notion that CCC is not fit for purpose, hasn't been for a long time, and that paying shedloads of cash to time-wasters has not solved the problem.
I think you'll find that the reality of the situation is that CCC have created the fiasco all on their own, and the CAA and the RAF have been trying to advise them for years but, as I discovered, CCC cannot be advised.
When you are dealing with people who simply refuse to accept that they can be wrong, who simply don't know how little they know, there comes a time when you simply give up, recalling the Biblical phrase "You can't kick against the pricks", and move on.
Perhaps the CAA and RAF eventually felt the same way.
Changing the subject....sort of......
CCC's performance over St Mawgan/Newquay Airport pales into insignificance aganst their performance over the £millions of EU funding they lost on behalf of their ratepayers....but that's another story, another saga of incompetence. But it does reinforce the notion that CCC is not fit for purpose, hasn't been for a long time, and that paying shedloads of cash to time-wasters has not solved the problem.
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WHBM, you are missing the point. There are flight safety issues here and by not issing the ATC licence the CAA SRG are doing the job they are supposed to do and by doing this they are protecting the public.
The CAA have been in communication for the past couple of years
with the NQY officials and yes there is a temporary approval system that was going to be in place. But they did not meet the required standard to give that.
The RAF have extended twice already and there is a knock effect to other units if they extend again.
Working within there own rules is why the flight safety record in this country is so good.
The CAA have been in communication for the past couple of years
with the NQY officials and yes there is a temporary approval system that was going to be in place. But they did not meet the required standard to give that.
The RAF have extended twice already and there is a knock effect to other units if they extend again.
Working within there own rules is why the flight safety record in this country is so good.
I don't think I am. The airport was not adequately safe on November 30 then suddenly unsafe the next day, and then hey-presto from December 17 it is all safe again. This condition can only apply because some aspect of bureaucracy has not been ticked. It should be quite possible to organise to overcome this.
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and then hey-presto from December 17 it is all safe again.
It's "If you have put right the safety failure that led us to refuse the licence by 17th December, it's all safe again. If not, then no licence, and you stay closed".
As I understand it (possibly wrongly) both sides have agreed that 17th December is a reasonable target date to have put things right. And that's all. I'm not betting on the outcome.
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Found this on the West Country tv web site seems Newquay not to open untill the 29th now at earliest
Re-opening of Newquay airport could be delayed - Westcountry - Welcome To ITV Local for the West Country
Re-opening of Newquay airport could be delayed - Westcountry - Welcome To ITV Local for the West Country