Ryanair loses court challenge to Labour Court enquiry
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Why would you assume the CAA takes any more interest in Ryanair than it does in (say) Air Algerie or SAS?
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how badly will ryanair treat their pilots when they are not making 295 million profit per year.these are the glory days,just wait until the profits drop.sorry boys more cuts we are not doing too well.by then there will be no place to run and hide.all the other operators will be using the same tactics.so for those of you happy to keep your head down and transition,well just keep on running!
i think the management call it a "low cost pilot production line",how does it feel to be a spare part?
i think the management call it a "low cost pilot production line",how does it feel to be a spare part?
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The writing is already on the wall Grim Repa. Two weeks ago O'Leary announced that FR may soon start paying dividends to share-holders, something they've bluntly refused to do in the past because O'Leary told the punters they were doing well enough already on share capital appreciation.
So why the turnaround?
Obviously he sees a problem with the share price. Its peformance is distinctly uninspiring of late. Investors aren't piling in like they used to. This is bad for a company that needs pots of money to keep growing.
The emperor suddenly has no clothes.
So why the turnaround?
Obviously he sees a problem with the share price. Its peformance is distinctly uninspiring of late. Investors aren't piling in like they used to. This is bad for a company that needs pots of money to keep growing.
The emperor suddenly has no clothes.
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Leo - if you're listening - and I'm sure you are: Tis time to do a little side trip to visit Herb Kelleher in your "sister" company at Dallas Love, and ask a bit of advice... Might be a bit hard to take, but would be the measure of how much of a real leader you can be.
Is their any truth to the rumour I heard that Ryanair pilots are made to pay for their coffee in the cockpit?
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The clock is ticking...
I'm not worried that our friendly line captain Leo H-C hasn't appeared. FR will only put out a spin when they want to, and we will all be here tearing it to shreds. So I'm not that fussed.
The issue of censorship: this is only the very same moves that FR put on the REPA website, and those that host it. I have sympathy for Danny who has been so obviously constrained by legal moves put upon him, and who probably doesn't have massive financial reserves in order to fight a legal case against MOL and his crowd.
It cannot be stressed enough the fact that these legal moves against PPRuNe speak volumes in themselves. Those who delude themselves into believing that at present FR is at best, a benign employer, take heed. This company wishes to stifle public debate on an internet forum against a very public ruling that went 100% against them.
These court actions have been a distraction from the main item. The blocks MOL has continued to put in IALPA's way have been removed one by one. MOL has yet to see a success in the Irish Courts against IALPA. It all adds up to the fact that he is scared of being in front of the Labour Court where all the SCs you can drag up make not a jot of difference. Unfortunately, MOL will find himself in an arena where he has to participate in an entity foreign to him: industrial relations.
What must be commended here is not just the work of IALPA and their team, but the spirit of the DUB pilots. Throughout a long summer, they have stuck it out and are now seeing the results they deserve. Keep it up guys!
The issue of censorship: this is only the very same moves that FR put on the REPA website, and those that host it. I have sympathy for Danny who has been so obviously constrained by legal moves put upon him, and who probably doesn't have massive financial reserves in order to fight a legal case against MOL and his crowd.
It cannot be stressed enough the fact that these legal moves against PPRuNe speak volumes in themselves. Those who delude themselves into believing that at present FR is at best, a benign employer, take heed. This company wishes to stifle public debate on an internet forum against a very public ruling that went 100% against them.
These court actions have been a distraction from the main item. The blocks MOL has continued to put in IALPA's way have been removed one by one. MOL has yet to see a success in the Irish Courts against IALPA. It all adds up to the fact that he is scared of being in front of the Labour Court where all the SCs you can drag up make not a jot of difference. Unfortunately, MOL will find himself in an arena where he has to participate in an entity foreign to him: industrial relations.
What must be commended here is not just the work of IALPA and their team, but the spirit of the DUB pilots. Throughout a long summer, they have stuck it out and are now seeing the results they deserve. Keep it up guys!
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Hey guys, soory. Off topic, but just a short question, according tax.
Working for Ryanair, i will pay my tax in Ireand . Is it accepted, by the irish tax institution, that i am married, or will i be treated as a single according the tax ? Or is it even depending where i am based???
Sorry once again for off-topic.
Mike
Working for Ryanair, i will pay my tax in Ireand . Is it accepted, by the irish tax institution, that i am married, or will i be treated as a single according the tax ? Or is it even depending where i am based???
Sorry once again for off-topic.
Mike
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None of the following are on topic: tax, coffee, water or Ryanair's share performance.
So why not take them up on another thread and stop this interesting one getting diverted?
So why not take them up on another thread and stop this interesting one getting diverted?
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Not 100% on thread as per title – but slightly relevant to where threads gone.
Can I humbly make a suggestion to those who wish to say anything that is now not allowed – set up an anti Ryanair site – there’s Natwestfraud (http://www.natwestfraud.com/) etc as examples.
I don’t fully agree with Danny – but having been threatened with legal action myself by a major carrier I understand his position – your site, your money and time.
The setting up of a site isn’t that difficult – it’s the running and gaining support for it that’s difficult.
On thread – it seems to me that the result of the Labour Court will be the interesting bit – Ryanair is a major money bringer for Eire, the High Court might have let the Labour Court investigate – but will the Labour Court be 100% impartial when if their decision isn’t gentle it could lose the country lots.
Under EU / EASA / JAR rules Ryan COULD move and other EU countries would give them their daughters to get them on their register – true the moving costs could be high but a cost / benefit analysis will be done (if it hasn’t already) dependant on how the Labour Court is likely to act.
Irishmen are very connected to Eire – MoL will keep the op there as long as he can – but they are also good travellers.
Can I humbly make a suggestion to those who wish to say anything that is now not allowed – set up an anti Ryanair site – there’s Natwestfraud (http://www.natwestfraud.com/) etc as examples.
I don’t fully agree with Danny – but having been threatened with legal action myself by a major carrier I understand his position – your site, your money and time.
The setting up of a site isn’t that difficult – it’s the running and gaining support for it that’s difficult.
On thread – it seems to me that the result of the Labour Court will be the interesting bit – Ryanair is a major money bringer for Eire, the High Court might have let the Labour Court investigate – but will the Labour Court be 100% impartial when if their decision isn’t gentle it could lose the country lots.
Under EU / EASA / JAR rules Ryan COULD move and other EU countries would give them their daughters to get them on their register – true the moving costs could be high but a cost / benefit analysis will be done (if it hasn’t already) dependant on how the Labour Court is likely to act.
Irishmen are very connected to Eire – MoL will keep the op there as long as he can – but they are also good travellers.
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Tech Rep, some punter already tried setting up a website to voice his complaint over treatment he got from FR. It was only mildly critical, but O'Leary couldn't take it, so he used the proverbial sledgehammer to crack that little nut - he had it gagged in the Courts.
So, is your suggestion mischeivous? Are you just hinting that anyone with less than praiseworthy comments about FR should **** off elsewhere? Out with it man!
You say FR could move, and be welcomed in other EU countries?
Perhaps you've not kept up with events lately. EU mandarins are climbing all over FR at the moment. Another investigation into illegal subsidies occurs every week.
Micko might run, but he can't hide.
Still, he could buy B777's, go long-haul, and base himself in SA. Maybe you'd prefer that?
So, is your suggestion mischeivous? Are you just hinting that anyone with less than praiseworthy comments about FR should **** off elsewhere? Out with it man!
You say FR could move, and be welcomed in other EU countries?
Perhaps you've not kept up with events lately. EU mandarins are climbing all over FR at the moment. Another investigation into illegal subsidies occurs every week.
Micko might run, but he can't hide.
Still, he could buy B777's, go long-haul, and base himself in SA. Maybe you'd prefer that?
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I think RYR are facing major problems. MOL personally is ok with so much money in the bank. But for a guy that has such belief in himself it is surpising he hasn't put his money where his mouth is and left his money in RYR, no he has continuously cashed in alot of his shares.
Can't say I blame him. If you run at such a pace you face a big fall when you trip up.
Being forced to sit down and negotiate with a labour court must be his worst nightmare.
The man is a bullsh1tter. His speech last week slagging off consultants. They should be shot.
I am pretty sure he had his consultants in for the flotation etc. etc.
Oh, almost forgot, sure wasn't MOL a tax-consultant for KPMG when he met Tony Ryan.
A different adaptation.
You can fool some of the people some of the time but you cant fool some of the people any of the time. We see through it.
Can't say I blame him. If you run at such a pace you face a big fall when you trip up.
Being forced to sit down and negotiate with a labour court must be his worst nightmare.
The man is a bullsh1tter. His speech last week slagging off consultants. They should be shot.
I am pretty sure he had his consultants in for the flotation etc. etc.
Oh, almost forgot, sure wasn't MOL a tax-consultant for KPMG when he met Tony Ryan.
A different adaptation.
You can fool some of the people some of the time but you cant fool some of the people any of the time. We see through it.
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african tech rep.
will the labour court be fair.the second highest court in the land overwhelmingly thinks so and the supreme court have not been appealed to,because the labour courts finding were so watertight and fair.as for the constitutional challenge,well we shall never see that.
we are not anti ryanair,just anti ryanair unfair and exploitative management practices.
as for pulling out of ireland,as recently as last week reliable american sources claim that 27% of ryanairs total income is from ireland - uk routes and it is indeed this income that is shoring up other loss making routes.will they turn and run from aer lingus,i think not.
changing aoc's will not lend credibility and will not now remedy the deepening pilot shortage,which is now managements greatest concern.
they are here to stay and be it through labour court action or market factors,the pilots will get their just demands.
indeed mol has consultants kmpg working in stn at this very moment.supervising some puppet employee elections.
will the labour court be fair.the second highest court in the land overwhelmingly thinks so and the supreme court have not been appealed to,because the labour courts finding were so watertight and fair.as for the constitutional challenge,well we shall never see that.
we are not anti ryanair,just anti ryanair unfair and exploitative management practices.
as for pulling out of ireland,as recently as last week reliable american sources claim that 27% of ryanairs total income is from ireland - uk routes and it is indeed this income that is shoring up other loss making routes.will they turn and run from aer lingus,i think not.
changing aoc's will not lend credibility and will not now remedy the deepening pilot shortage,which is now managements greatest concern.
they are here to stay and be it through labour court action or market factors,the pilots will get their just demands.
indeed mol has consultants kmpg working in stn at this very moment.supervising some puppet employee elections.
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Umm – I belive the bank has been trying to shut the mentioned web site for some time and failed – few courts have worldwide jurisdiction – suggest a Russian host might be good but there are other countries.
I’m suggesting we (Ppruners) can’t really vilify Danny for his actions unless we are willing to put ourselves in his position – I applaud whoever set the now the gagged site – but don’t applaud his backing down. If all those who feel the need to say things outside Danny’s current rules set up a site each hosted “off shore” MoL’s lawyers would have a hell of a time shutting them all down and eventually a cost / benefit analysis might just stop them trying.
Your mixing up subsidies and Country of Registration / Country of AOC issuance – the EU investigation into subsidies will continue regardless of these – but it’s the Irish Labour Court involvement that this thread is based on, my point being will they do a unbiased job or be swayed by MoL’s threats to simply move to another EU country – the setting up of [say] a Greek company and transfer of the planes ownership to it thus allowing the planes to be Greek Registered will take some lawyers about a week, the obtaining of an AOC a little longer and hey ho Ryanair is a Greek airline and the Irish courts have little say in anything anymore – oh and money now flows into Greece whereas now it goes to Eire.
(Greece is used partly because they are EU and JAR, partly because I’ve seen both planes Registered / DeRegistered and AOC’s gained there, so have a good idea how their system works – but I could use Belgium if you like having once been involved in the transfer of Ownership from “off shore” to Belgium on a Chinese Registered plane due to tax agreements – ie Belgian Ownership reduced taxes payable in China)
I would dearly like some B777’s down here – at least they’d take off unlike the 342’s that just keep going till the earth ejects them, and a few more long haul LCC’s would be nice – we have enough short haul LCC’s thanks.
Edited to say EU “Open Sky” policy means he would not need to lose routes - his main flights are out of UK with Irish planes this is because of the EU thus it would only change to out of UK with Greek (or other EU reg) planes – Air Scotland is doing exactly this (just not quite as profitably).
I don’t think I’ve indicated a “pro” or “anti” stance – simply put some stuff out there for thought – but if someone out there hasn’t seen a Court / Govt “cave” due to threats from big business (often behind closed doors) they haven’t really been looking.
I’m suggesting we (Ppruners) can’t really vilify Danny for his actions unless we are willing to put ourselves in his position – I applaud whoever set the now the gagged site – but don’t applaud his backing down. If all those who feel the need to say things outside Danny’s current rules set up a site each hosted “off shore” MoL’s lawyers would have a hell of a time shutting them all down and eventually a cost / benefit analysis might just stop them trying.
Your mixing up subsidies and Country of Registration / Country of AOC issuance – the EU investigation into subsidies will continue regardless of these – but it’s the Irish Labour Court involvement that this thread is based on, my point being will they do a unbiased job or be swayed by MoL’s threats to simply move to another EU country – the setting up of [say] a Greek company and transfer of the planes ownership to it thus allowing the planes to be Greek Registered will take some lawyers about a week, the obtaining of an AOC a little longer and hey ho Ryanair is a Greek airline and the Irish courts have little say in anything anymore – oh and money now flows into Greece whereas now it goes to Eire.
(Greece is used partly because they are EU and JAR, partly because I’ve seen both planes Registered / DeRegistered and AOC’s gained there, so have a good idea how their system works – but I could use Belgium if you like having once been involved in the transfer of Ownership from “off shore” to Belgium on a Chinese Registered plane due to tax agreements – ie Belgian Ownership reduced taxes payable in China)
I would dearly like some B777’s down here – at least they’d take off unlike the 342’s that just keep going till the earth ejects them, and a few more long haul LCC’s would be nice – we have enough short haul LCC’s thanks.
Edited to say EU “Open Sky” policy means he would not need to lose routes - his main flights are out of UK with Irish planes this is because of the EU thus it would only change to out of UK with Greek (or other EU reg) planes – Air Scotland is doing exactly this (just not quite as profitably).
I don’t think I’ve indicated a “pro” or “anti” stance – simply put some stuff out there for thought – but if someone out there hasn’t seen a Court / Govt “cave” due to threats from big business (often behind closed doors) they haven’t really been looking.
Last edited by African Tech Rep; 20th Oct 2005 at 13:14.
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This old chesnut.
Oh, bahave or they might pull out of Ireland/Dublin......
And go where??
No country in Europe would let them away with as much as the 'see no evil, hear no evil' baffoons that we have in the IAA.
This is crooked Ireland after all where a former minister for transport (who launched a major anti drink driving campaign) drove the wrong way down a motorway pissed as a fart and has still not been deselected by his party, the party of government.
Let MOL pull out of Ireland. There would be a scurry of airlines ready to take up the routes and jobs for everybody.
Oh, bahave or they might pull out of Ireland/Dublin......
And go where??
No country in Europe would let them away with as much as the 'see no evil, hear no evil' baffoons that we have in the IAA.
This is crooked Ireland after all where a former minister for transport (who launched a major anti drink driving campaign) drove the wrong way down a motorway pissed as a fart and has still not been deselected by his party, the party of government.
Let MOL pull out of Ireland. There would be a scurry of airlines ready to take up the routes and jobs for everybody.
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worldwidewolly, one reason Micko and the Ryans keep cashing in their chips on such a regular basis is that Tony Ryan learned a hard lesson in that area when he was boss of GPA.
In the Eighties GPA was the worlds biggest and fastest growing aircraft leasing company. Ryan decided to float the company, but the flotation collapsed and the banks called in their debts. He went from being a paper billionaire overnight, to being a mere millionaire, and lost control of his company.
He won't make that mistake again. Every time the share price peaks the boys take a chunk of money out to stash away - just in case history repeats itself.
The lesson Ryan learned - and some on this BB should remember - is that even the strongest looking company can crash overnight if market sentiment turns. He's lining his nest to be ready for the evil day. When/if it does come he and the boys will be OK - and the poor shmucks who only work there will be the real victims this time round.
Its another reason why they need the share price to keep climbing - thats how they cash in.
In the Eighties GPA was the worlds biggest and fastest growing aircraft leasing company. Ryan decided to float the company, but the flotation collapsed and the banks called in their debts. He went from being a paper billionaire overnight, to being a mere millionaire, and lost control of his company.
He won't make that mistake again. Every time the share price peaks the boys take a chunk of money out to stash away - just in case history repeats itself.
The lesson Ryan learned - and some on this BB should remember - is that even the strongest looking company can crash overnight if market sentiment turns. He's lining his nest to be ready for the evil day. When/if it does come he and the boys will be OK - and the poor shmucks who only work there will be the real victims this time round.
Its another reason why they need the share price to keep climbing - thats how they cash in.
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“No country in Europe would let them away with as much as the 'see no evil, hear no evil' baffoons that we have in the IAA.”
www – little jaundiced aren’t we – shall we just say I had good reasons for mentioning the other EU Authorities that I did – and have had dealings with them.
I think you are overestimating the other authorities
Don’t get carried away by the other airlines ready to pick up the routes – a transfer of the place of business does NOT necessarily mean you have to give up your routes.
And you don’t have to “behave” – but you should be aware of ALL possibilities no matter how far fetched you belive it could be – a good strategist never says “oh they won’t do that” – he / she says “they probably won’t do that – but if they did …………” – in other words plan / consider ALL possibilities.
www – little jaundiced aren’t we – shall we just say I had good reasons for mentioning the other EU Authorities that I did – and have had dealings with them.
I think you are overestimating the other authorities
Don’t get carried away by the other airlines ready to pick up the routes – a transfer of the place of business does NOT necessarily mean you have to give up your routes.
And you don’t have to “behave” – but you should be aware of ALL possibilities no matter how far fetched you belive it could be – a good strategist never says “oh they won’t do that” – he / she says “they probably won’t do that – but if they did …………” – in other words plan / consider ALL possibilities.
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Firstly, I don't think Tony Ryan went from a billionaire to a mere millionaire. Sure, the failed flotation stung but hey, he ain't down in the soup house every day. The family are very very wealthy.
My ire here is the constant bull you get from RYR.
You had the fiasco last week of the blind passengers being off-loaded despite the fact that the Ryanair safety manual clearly states that blind passengers are not classified as disabled.
There was clearly a mistake and Ryanair are covering it up with waffle.
As for the pulling out of Ireland bit.
O' Leary couldn't. He couldn't live with being out of the limelight in this country.
The posh and becks of the aviation world.
Ryanair must now appear before the labour court.
As was mentioned previously, the haven't appealed.
More bull!
The fact is they will appear, they will enter meaningful fair negotions and if they don't it will be imposed on them.
My ire here is the constant bull you get from RYR.
You had the fiasco last week of the blind passengers being off-loaded despite the fact that the Ryanair safety manual clearly states that blind passengers are not classified as disabled.
There was clearly a mistake and Ryanair are covering it up with waffle.
As for the pulling out of Ireland bit.
O' Leary couldn't. He couldn't live with being out of the limelight in this country.
The posh and becks of the aviation world.
Ryanair must now appear before the labour court.
As was mentioned previously, the haven't appealed.
More bull!
The fact is they will appear, they will enter meaningful fair negotions and if they don't it will be imposed on them.